GAS: online scepticism?

[theTragicRich]

I hate guitar center... I don't hate them as much as I used to, but it seems all the smaller mom & pop stores don't carry much variety anymore (especially the brands I'm looking at). So while the sales persons at GC do recognize me at times and give me a 'deal'... it's just not what it used to be. I remember back when I was younger they'd send a postcard after a purchase to get a free set of strings, or free drum sticks etc. That's gone. Alot of the personaable reps are gone.. it seems to be all about the sale.

 

No more have I been trying out one brand, that they'll come along and suggest another brand, mention it's strengths compared to the one I'm playing and tell me I can get the other (better) one out the door for the same price. It's always "Oh, *insert brand you're playing here* are great, I love them, I own 20 guitars from them"... yea right! Ok enough ranting...

 

So I'm looking at a new instrument to get, and I know that it's a small % that they'll actually have it in stock so I'd have to put some money down and special order it. My buddy buys most of his stuff through online/mail retailers (musicians friend and AMS), but he's had a few horror stories (mostly from AMS). I'm looking to order one from MF, but wondering if anyone has had trouble with purchases from them? I'm not worried about cables/strings etc through the mail, but an instrument. Still has me on edge just thinking what condition it might be in when I get it. (My friend's guitar had a terribly warped neck so he had to send it back, which as we all know, we hate to wait to get our new gear, and hate even more when we are forced to wait longer!).

[kerk]

I've ordered from Sam Ash, MF, Music 123, and Zzounds. Never had a problem. The most you risk is the return shipping charge. They all usually take stuff back, no questions asked. Sure, you can't play an instrument that way, but as for me, I'm not that choosey, and I can return it even if I don't like the way it feels. I'm gonna tweak the setup anyway, so that doesn't matter. I just read as many reviews as possible before I order.

 

You also have be willing to replace the thrill of walking out of the store with a new fish, with the thrill of seeing the Fedex truck pull up.

[Paul K]

No worse than buying a fish on eBay. And I've bought a decent fish on eBay (and also my beloved car!). The return policy with on-line music stores is undoubtedly better than eBay. If you know what you want, my experience is that it's very safe. But that's easy for me to say, as I've never had a warped neck experience. And for me, the Fed-Ex truck truly is a thrill, as it's fun to watch him try to turn around in my driveway. (I guess I need to get out more often....)

 

I share your frustration with Mom and Pop stores, but generalize my frustration to include M&P's of all persuasion. In my town, in addition to a limited selection they also have crappy prices, crappy knowledge of their product, and crappy service after the purchase. And to really screw the pooch, they have crappy store hours. And yet, they wonder why the parking lot at Home Depot is full. At least Home Depot offers consistent mediocrity.

 

Hoo Boy. How's that for a needless rant?

 

Peace

Paul K

[Nicklab]

I think a little skepticism in this case is a very good thing. I've only ordered a few instruments sight unseen, but every time that I've done that it's been with a dealer who's store I can visit. And with that storefront comes a salesperson who I can call personally to check on my order. That kind of accessibility has a value. It's called customer service.

 

There's definitely something that you might want to consider. That being what kind of relationship do you have with your local mom & pop stores? If you have something specific in mind you can always ask that store if they'll order it for you. That's how I wound up getting a number of my own instruments.

 

How does that work? First, know what you want. If you can try out the instrument or something very similar to it, do so. The store will probably work out a deal where you would put down a deposit and they should be able to give you a delivery date. And they probably will look into this since they would probably like to get your business. I would also be very upfront with them about what their return policy is like. If you're not comfortable with that, then don't make the deal.

 

But the ideal for me is always to play the instrument before you buy it. As a result I'm willing to drive a few hours to try out a bass that I'm ready to spend several hundred to a thousand plus dollars on. So if you're close to Chicago, I would seriously consider driving into town with the names and addresses of a few really good bass dealers and check out their stock firsthand.

[DC Ross]

Remember that Guitar Center and Musician's Friend are the same company. Find a better price somewhere online, print it out and bring it into GC to make them match it (unless you can haggle them down to a better price first )

[getz out]

Whatever.

 

I actually do remember all those old "mom and pop" stores. All those miserable stores with absolutely no selection, high prices, and no return policy. Yeah, I remember all of that. The few good stores I know in my area are actually still in business. Most of the stores that got run out of business by Guitar Center and Sam Ash were the ones that offered not much more than a complete rip-off.

 

I am not saying Guitar Center is perfect, but it is much better than the majority of those old "mom and pop" stores.

 

Nothing is free. Free strings? Not free. No free lunch.

[_Sweet Willie_]

There are some great non-chain musical instrument shops in the Chicago area. Naperville is not far from Chicago.

 

I've sung the praises of some of those shops in past threads.

 

I get stuff at GC, but I also try to support the smaller businesses if they give me more personal service. I'm willing to pay a few extra bucks there if I know that I've built a relationship with the employees and ownership.

 

The main advantage to the smaller businesses is that you can get to know the folks there, and if they know what they're doing, they get to know you, too.

 

The advantage of the chains is often in selection and lower prices.

 

Peace.

--s-uu

 

[theTragicRich]

Yea, I think I'm going to just do the MF order... I've had my eye on this guitar for a couple of years now... just mustering up the courage to click the "add to cart" button LOL.

[Rocky McDougall]

Whether you are buying lumber, hardware, food or music instruments, the fact is Mom & Pop stores are history. I hate it but it's inevitable. On the plus side, it's nice to go into a music superstore and have a tremendous array of instruments to look at, inspect, play all you want and then haggle the price. We have a GC here and across the street is Sam A. It's a gas attack paradise. And the instruments have never been better for the price you pay. Overseas manufacturers have really brought the price down while giving really great quality.

Rocky

[Nicklab]

Whether you are buying lumber, hardware, food or music instruments, the fact is Mom & Pop stores are history. I hate it but it's inevitable.

 

Mom & Pops can't compete on price. At least when you think of things on a WalMart VS the local store kind of scale. But small businesses are always going to have SOMETHING to offer to people who want better customer service. Someone at a Guitar Center is probably not going to go to the trouble of ordering a Zon for you. A mom & pop store did that for me. When I walk into this one store I can say hi to the salesman by name. He knows my name and can say hello back. He can also recall what I've bought from him and asks how I'm liking the basses I bought from him. Those things have a value that can't be easily quantified.

[theTragicRich]

Yea, I agree both types of places have their advantages. But I'm still a young musician (been playing music for 14 or so years now), but I recall my early years that GC, while a little more expensive than the guys I usually shopped at (small store called Pro-Am Music), the sales men were different than they are now. The guys at GC used to recognize me and were always excited to show me a new product that just came in, and plop me down in front of one. When I was drumming the guy always invited me to his gigs, gave me a copy of his bands demo and always just chatted with me about drums.

 

I've only started going back to GC the past couple of years (since I started bass) and while the guy who sold me my first bass recognizes me, it could also be that 1) when I ordered my bass, the wrong one came, so they had to re-order the proper one and 2) I've spent close to $3000 there the past 2 years or so. The other salesman always seem to disappear in the backroom for 30 minutes while I'm trying to stand on a stool to get a guitar down LOL. They seem more interested in getting my purchase and getting me out the door now than wanting to chat and talk music. It just seems like a completely different place... but oh well. I still shop there.

 

But I did it... I clicked add to cart and hopefully tomorrow I'll see my order has been processed at MF and maybe have it by next week. It's a new guitar, so I won't bore you details on it

[kerk]

As far as 'salesman' attitudes, I think we have to keep in mind that before online suppliers, in store salesman had a much better chance of making a sale. Today, how many buyers simply use the music store as a place to try out instruments and then go home and order online? I don't blame them for being cynical. Unless I am going to buy from a brick and mortor, I don't 'try out' instruments. I will go in and look.......but not touch.

[RHINO_ROB]

Any time I go to guitar center they will beat any online price I have seen by at least 10% by just asking. I will very rarely buy online anymore. I most certainly stay away from Evil-bay(I have had nothing but bad luck from them.)

 

Most salesmen don't talk too much anymore because most have wasted too much time chatting up people with no intention of buying anything. The GC salesmen have to meet their quota(I think their term is fading) or they are fired. I am sure that many would love to sit and chat. The ones that actually play instruments anyway.

 

The funny thing I find now is the salesmen who know absolutely nothing about the product that they are selling. I am a gear Head/whore. I will learn everything about anything that I am even thinking about buying. I still cannot believe the amount of misinformation that I get from just about any GC salesman I have encountered. Most other stores around here are the same way.

 

One will even down sell you so they don't have to order anything. " Well this Squire p-bass is every bit as good as the American ones. Your just paying for the name." I have actually been told this by a local mom and pop music store.

[Nicklab]

The one thing about buying online that gives me the real heebee-jeebees? Not knowing EXACTLY how that instrument will feel in my hands, how it sounds, how it plays, what the neck relief is like...there are just too many variables. And then when you think back not too long ago there were times where you would try out one bass of a particular model and it might sound/play differently than another bass of the same model. It DOES happen. Granted the manufacturing processes are much more automated today and the work is much more consistent today, but this is an issue that arose all too often with major instrument manufacturers.

[Danzilla]

I had to run an errand yesterday at lunchtime, and GC was really close to where I had to go. So I popped in, just to look around. Went back into the bass section, and a guy asked me if I was looking for anything in particular. So I said, "What do you have in fretless 5-strings?" "Oh, we've got a Warwick out fron. Let me get it." Not planning on buying anything, let alone as expensive as a Warwick, I waited for a moment, figuring I'd at least give it a whirl then walk away. He comes back with a fretless Warwick. It's a 4-string. And I told him that. "Oh, it HAS to be a 5-string?" "Yes, that's what I want." "Well, we could order one for you." Like Nick said, it's not the same ordering one without playing it first to make sure it's what you want and are comfortable with owning.

 

So I went to the acoustic guitar room. Another salesman starts talking to me about what I might want. I tell him a few specs, and he says I might like this Breedlove. He goes & gets it, and starts playing it. And telling me how much he likes the Breedloves while he's playing it. And playing it. So I grab another guitar off the wall and start playing THAT. "Oh, You like Takamines? Yeah, here's a good one of theirs." And he grabs a Tak off the wall, and plays it. And tells me how good it is while he plays it. and plays it. Ever think that the customer might want to play it?

 

I didn't buy an acoustic guitar, either. (But I'm bugged- one of the Taks I played was pretty nice; I should have written down the model number. It's a solid cedar top, and koa back & sides. Problem- I can't find it on Takamine's web site OR MF or ZZounds or AMS... is it an anomoly?)

[Rosa Floydian]

You used to go to ProAm? No way - you are talking about the one on 75th and ~Fairview (roughly) next to Wolf Camera right? My brother used to take guitar lessons there. I actually work now for a small business music shop - Player's Guitars. Dependent upon what you're looking for they just might have it. Mostly used but we get stuff in everyday (buy, sell, trade). Located in Worth, the two owners are great guys too, very personal and friendly. Just another place to keep in mind.

[theTragicRich]

Yep, that's the one Rosa.

[Nicklab]

 

So I went to the acoustic guitar room. Another salesman starts talking to me about what I might want. I tell him a few specs, and he says I might like this Breedlove. He goes & gets it, and starts playing it. And telling me how much he likes the Breedloves while he's playing it. And playing it. So I grab another guitar off the wall and start playing THAT. "Oh, You like Takamines? Yeah, here's a good one of theirs." And he grabs a Tak off the wall, and plays it. And tells me how good it is while he plays it. and plays it. Ever think that the customer might want to play it?

 

What a tool. I've run into this kind of nimrod salesman more than I would care to recall and they just don't seem to get it. And it's happened so much that the next time it does happen I am prepared to say "Sorry dude, but my ability to transfer my conciousness into someone else's body seems to be on the fritz. Do you mind if I actually play the instrument that I'm considering buying instead of watching you?"

[rizzo9247]

I always had a problem with GC and their staff. It seems, as someone mentioned earlier, they are just about the sale. For example, I went in the other day to contemplate a MM Stingray5. Since I never played one, I went in to try it out. I loved the sound and definitely thought about that bass as my next purchase.

 

However, without any prodding, the salesman comes over and starts telling me about great finance deals if I bought the bass today. He obviously had little knowledge of the instrument, but was pushing a sale. the price tag said $1459, and without any further negotiating on my part ( I was just leaving, didn't have that kind of cash on hand) he stops me at the door and goes on the computer and says, "I can go as low as $1150 plus tax, but thats only if you buy it today."

 

That just really turned me off.

So I decided to stay with my MIM standard jazz V(modified), for the time being.

[theTragicRich]

I got my new guitar today, and everything seems to be great. The action is a tad low, but at least that's something relatively easy to fix. No warped neck, no dings or dents or blemishes on the body/finish... I'm a happy man! I think the best part was, no sales tax and I qualified for free shipping through MF. A $600 guitar cost me just that. The only thing I didn't like, and maybe I can specify this next time, is to get a signature required at delivery. I was coming home from work and turning on my street when I see a box leaning against the front door with a big sign on it saying "New guitar! Please steal me!" Other than that, she's a beaut!

 

(For those wanting to know, it's a Schecter C7 Blackjack 7 string guitar. I've been wanting a 7 string for well over 5 years, and finally got around to ordering it.)

[Rocky McDougall]

Schecter makes som fine guitars, but 7 strings, what in the world are you going to do with 7 strings? I can't even cope with 4.

I am happy for you,

Rocky