Rocky McDougall Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Hearing loss should be a concern for all, especially musicians. I love live conderts but the last few I have been to, I had to get far away from the stage because of the noise level. The thought crossed my mind this morning, whether listening at home or in the studio through closed headphones was better or worse than speakers. My question, since closed headphones block out other ambient noise, would we naturally find ourselves listening, only to the music, at lower db's thru headphones, therefore causing less damage to our hearing? Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edro Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 It's definitely a big concern, Rocky. Here are a few things I found on the subject: Link 1 : This appears to be an in-depth explanation. Haven't had the chance to read it a few times to get a grasp of it. The first sentence says that hearing damage from headphones is probably more common than from speakers. Link 2 : Is about the in-ear vs. over-the-ear headphones. The higher frequencies that cause damage are a bigger problem having headphones on. When listening to speakers, some of those frequencies are absorbed by the air. With headphones, it's a straight shot into the ear. Most of my music listening time is spent with headphones on, and I try to remind myself each time to set the volume just so it can be heard clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 I also spend most of my music listening time with headphones. I had always heard that headphones are more dangerous to your hearing, but I don't think I have the volume as high on headphones as I would on speakers. I was thinking that it is because the sound is not competing with other noise in the room. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 could you speak up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 WHAT ! "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzilla Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 I went to a concert Saturday night that was a sonic surprise to me. It was held at a mega-church, made to be a concert hall. Mighty big stage, seats 5000 easy, built in PA with flying columns. My daughter really wanted to be up front (where they had removed a bunch of the seats to make standing room- not quite a mosh pit). There were also speaker columns on the sides at the edge of the stage- subs, and medium sized mid & high end enclosures. The top speaker was angled in slightly toward the center. We were right up against the stage, and the volume really wasn't that bad. Yes, I had ear plugs for the girls. The bands (Everyday Sunday, Krystal Meyers) had the guitar cabs turned around toward the back of the stage, and mic'ed; the standard Ampeg 8x10 was front facing. Anyway, we heard just enough vocal from the angled cabs, bass was nice and full but not inducing a heart attack, drums were really nice sounding. I knew if we stepped back about 10-15 feet, we'd get hit with the sound from the flies, and it would be twice as loud. Well, it started getting tight, and the girls were getting tired of standing, so we went and sat down in the 2nd section of seats, right on line with the sound man. Come to find out, they weren't even using the flies! Just those cabs on the side of the stage. When Superchic[k] came on, they unveiled cabs that were front-facing. It was a bit louder than before, but not a whole lot. Overall, the sound was very well balanced and enjoyable. Bassist Matt Daly did a bang up job, running his Fender Jazz through an Eden head & cab. Talking with him after the show, he was also running into a Sansamp. NIce guy, and very talented. Anyway, the band really likes their sound man and gives him a lot of credit. So did I; it was a nice live concert volume, where you could actually distinguish everything, and it didn't overwhelm my little girl. She had a great time, and no one's ears were ringing the next day. "Am I enough of a freak to be worth paying to see?"- Separated Out (Marillion) NEW band Old band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 Sounds like a great concert. Good balanced sound makes all the difference. "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzilla Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Huh? Did you say something? "Am I enough of a freak to be worth paying to see?"- Separated Out (Marillion) NEW band Old band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I haven't experienced any hearing problems from using headphones, but standing next to a drummer for years without using hearing protection is a surefire way to destroy your hearing. Snare drum hits can be as loud as 115dB from six feet away, and smack you right in the high-midrange area where the human ear is the most sensitive. If you play bass in a live band with a drummer (and most of us end up standing next to them), you should always wear hearing protection. I use custom-moulded plugs made by etymotic research that cuts everything evently by 15dB: http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme.aspx They significantly reduce the risk to my hearing, but still allow me to hear everything clearly. If I need more protection, I can swap out the filters and replace them with ones that cut volume by 25dB. They weren't cheap ($160), but they're worth every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I've been doing a lot of acoustic and low-volume things lately and forgot how loud it can get on stage. I hit an open jam last weekend and did a number on my left ear (the one that was pointing backstage). In the past it was the drummer's crash cymbal that was too close to this ear that did the damage. This time I must have been standing in front of the guitar amp. (There were a dozen on and around the generous drum riser I stood in front of, so I wasn't sure which ones were being used.) I had good separation from the drummer, so I don't think that was the problem. It really didn't seem loud to me at the time. I only brought a half stack (240 W through a 4x10) and had the master at 3, one number up from what I use at the quieter venues and practice. I had to put it directly behind me so it was flapping my pant legs but I could hear myself just fine. So next time I'm wearing ear plugs. Even having only one ear ring for days sucks. Especially lately with iPods and whatnot more attention has been given to headphones and earbuds. I believe I've heard they can be more damaging than a set of speaker cabinets. (Maybe I should check out the link Edro posted.) Makes me wonder about IEMs. I was considering going this route but maybe my ears are better off with a typical floor wedge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Oh, btw, my tinnitus is having a little competition with the high-pitched whining my computer is putting out today. Fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Anyone that read the article Edro linked to and wanted to read the article linked to there about mixing with headphones, that link is broken. Try this instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edro Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 According to the OSHA chart on the first link I posted, you can listen to 90 decibels for 8 hours safely. The examples given at that volume are: subway trains, motorcycle(the Harleys going by my house have to be louder than that), workshop tools, and a lawn mower. Pretty loud stuff IMO. So if you're listening with closed headphones, the music isn't competing with other noises, the volume and EQ are set so everything is just heard clearly, and breaks are taken, it's doubtful that any damage would be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 I have never used "In ear monitors". I know there is a wide range of quality/price etc. Do they block out other sounds like an earplug would or do they just balance and amplify the mix from the board while letting other sounds come into the ear?Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 That was my initial thought, if you hear only the recorded music and not ambient surrounding noise, you can get high fidelity audio at lower volume levels, therefore protecting your hearing. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I use custom-moulded plugs made by etymotic research that cuts everything evently by 15dB: http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme.aspx They significantly reduce the risk to my hearing, but still allow me to hear everything clearly. If I need more protection, I can swap out the filters and replace them with ones that cut volume by 25dB. They weren't cheap ($160), but they're worth every penny. Word. I've been meaning to get a pair of those. I have a cheaper version of the same thing that is not customized to my ears. They claim an even 25db cut but there is a slight loss of high end relative to the rest of the frequency band. It doesn't sound muffled and horrid like the standard foam earplugs do but it is noticeable. Or I'm going to buy a really nice in-ear monitor system with the custom moulded noise cancelling monitors. Solve both common problems with playing live in one swift maneuver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edro Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 That was my initial thought... Oops, my male vision missed that. I could have saved some typing by saying "Yup!" :grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I haven't experienced any hearing problems from using headphones, but standing next to a drummer for years without using hearing protection is a surefire way to destroy your hearing. Snare drum hits can be as loud as 115dB from six feet away, and smack you right in the high-midrange area where the human ear is the most sensitive. If you play bass in a live band with a drummer (and most of us end up standing next to them), you should always wear hearing protection. I use custom-moulded plugs made by etymotic research that cuts everything evently by 15dB: http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme.aspx They significantly reduce the risk to my hearing, but still allow me to hear everything clearly. If I need more protection, I can swap out the filters and replace them with ones that cut volume by 25dB. They weren't cheap ($160), but they're worth every penny. Exactly what I would have said! Snare drums are a total ear killer. I too have the same custom-moulded plugs with an even 15dB cut across the frequency spectrum. They are beyond awesome, the best bit of kit I own, bass included! I wear them for band practices and gigs, going to gigs as an audience member and clubbing likewise. The last time I failed to wear them (seeing Franz Ferdinand last year) because I'd left them in my gigbag, my ears rang for the next week. It was horrible. The much cheaper ER-25 plugs may not sound as clear but provide just as good protection. Buy one or the other, do not pass go without. Alex Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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