Question about getting used to stiff keyboard

[nicky43]

Hello all. Thanks in advance to anyone who responds. I've been playing synthesizer type keyboards on and off for 40 years and just got a Kurzweil PC1SE and the keyboard action is much stiffer than I am used to. I'm wondering how long will it take to get used to it or will I never get used it. I've been playing it for 2 days and all the muscles in my wrists and fingers are totally worn out.

 

My doctor says that my arthritus and corpal tunnel would be better served if I played a weighted piano type action instead of the easy synth actions so that's why I got the thing.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Finale]

Your doctor is probably right.

 

Time to use that weight you have in your forearms as you play. Imagine your forearms as levers, with the fixed pivot points at your elbows and your fingers as the other end of the levers.

 

Now, without playing, just let each of your whole forearms sit on a single finger on each hand. Then switch fingers on a nearby note, just as you would sit your forearms against a new surface. In the mean time, you just played a few notes using your forearm weight.

 

That's very basically the way you need to play on a weighted action.

[nicky43]

Thanks Cydonia. That's basically what the doctor is saying as far as the corpal tunnel relief. He also says the soft landing of a weighted keyboard is much easier on arthritus and artritus prevention than the synth action where you actually bottom out on the key rather hard.

 

BUT... how long is it going to take to get used to this stiff action? I'm just affraid I might never get used to it. Also, I have small hands and now these full size keys has taken a semitone of reach away from me. LOL!

 

[Mr. Nightime]

Just give it some more time. You'll find it gets easier each time you play, and your hands and wrists will thank you. I used synth action for a long time, then went to weighted action. It took a little, but now my hands and arms bother me if I play synth action for any period of time. You can be so much more expressive, and play so much cleaner with the weighted action.

 

Before long, you'll find that it feels natural to have the weight under your fingers, and synth action will feel too light.

 

An athlete doesn't get to world class level right away, and neither will you get used to the weight right away. But, like an athlete, do some stretching and warmups for your hands before trying anything strenuous. It'll make a big difference.

 

[Rod S]

Try to find Dave Horne's posts on this subject, he's explained much more in depth than I'm able to.

 

If you're worried about tendinitis and carpal tunnel, find a good classically trained teacher to teach you the correct way. That's what I did after I had problems. I recently got praised by a classical pianist about my playing position and posture. I'm confident I'm playing right and I've had no further problems. We can try to explain it as well as we can, but it's much easier for someone to show you and correct it.

 

I'd say it's not so much getting used to a stiffer action as learning the proper technique - even if it means taking a few steps backwards to do some basic exercises and re-learn what you though you did. You can play as much as you can and probably injure yourself before you get 'used to it'. You'll see playing correctly makes it much easier to play, much easier to control the dynamics, and more confortable.

 

Learn to play the correct way will take you a long way in the long run - it did for me, at least.

[ProfD]

Synthesizer type keyboards have been around 40 years?

 

Ok, maybe combo organ or something similar. I wasn't here yet.

 

Spray WD40 on the keys. Let it get down in the joints. That should loosen 'em up. Oh wait...that belongs on the Jiffy Lube forum.

 

Seriously, great advice above. Besides, you don't want your fingers sliding across the keyboard unless you are playing an organ patch. Good luck and welcome to the forum.

[Jazz+]

Lift and drop (arm weight), don't press. Don't play with your fingers like a typist, the fingers just shape to support the upper arm weight.

 

Soon as you feel any pain lay off.

[Finale]

He also says the soft landing of a weighted keyboard is much easier on arthritus and artritus prevention than the synth action where you actually bottom out on the key rather hard.

 

Yep, patience is the key to improve playing. I still try to improve mine since all those years. :grin:

 

About the feel of actions, some of them can be weighted and still be kind of rough at the end, it depends what type of material is used in the "keybed". So just make sure you feel your fingers and hands reactions as you change for this new action. Stop playing if you feel any pain and wait until tomorrow to continue. Your hands and tendons will gradually straighten.

 

In other words, you probably have been used to play mainly from the fingers. Following my previous explanation, imagine you're bending one forearm at 90 degrees as to play piano, and place that arm fingers on a kitchen scale, as if you wanted to weight your forearm + hand. Until now, you probably used to "lock" your forearm at that angle and the weight on the scale is actually way too low, probably showing the weight of your hand only.

 

Now, you need to let go that reflex of holding the forearm at angle and sit it on the kitchen scale (using one finger as the end), so it measures the weight of both your forearm and hand.

 

Then go play on your weighted keyboard following this principle. You'll soon realize the keys aren't that stiff at all.

 

Sorry if my explanation isn't super-clear, my mother tongue is not english. But I'm sure you get the main idea.

 

[Bridog6996]

That's going to be a tough change. You've basically spent your whole life playing on, at best, semi-weighted action. Your technique will have to change from the ground up. The good news is that in learning how to properly play the piano, you'll be helping your tendon problems, just as your doctor said.

 

The reason that it wouldn't work with a semi-weighted action is because piano technique just doesn't work with semi-weighted action. It's actually a hinderance, and you'll end up going back to your bad habits in no time. I find this to be true every time I play my Electro. You would think it would be easier to make the reverse transition, from piano action to semi-weighted. I'll play nothing but acoustic piano for a week, then do a gig with my Electro, and suddenly I'm Sloppy McGee. Semi-weighted actions respond better to "finger-based" technique, which doesn't work for piano. Long story short, it will take some getting used to because we're truly talking about different instruments here.

[nicky43]

I want to thank you all for the sincere advice. You guys are great! I will do my best to follow it. Good point about Synths not being around for 40 years. LOL! Forgot how old I was! But synth action Organs were and that's where that came from.

 

I mostly use a combination of Piano and synth technique now because I started on a Piano for 2 years then gigged in a band on a synth action VIP VOX organ (I think). That was a long long time ago but since then I have only used that type of keyboard.

I've only had a few piano lessons and play stricktly by ear so you can imagine how many bad habbits I have. I do have lots of formal training in Music Composition though but I can write music (notate it) faster than I can read it. Go figure!

 

My home studio now includes:

New Kurzweil 76 key PC1SE

Hammond XK-1

Yamaha Motif ES6

Korg Radias Rack

Korg O1W/FD Synth

TASCAM 24 Track digital

Masterlink

Voicelive

DBX EQ

DBX compressors

Roland Drums

Boss Drums

Bunch of effects Processors

Yamaha mixer

Mackie mixer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Finale]

BTW, congrats on your new Kurzweil purchase.

 

There's a freeware called PC2 Manager compatible with your synth with which you can edit sounds and programs much more efficiently than from the synth interface.

 

It also offers parameters that are not available on the synth.

[nicky43]

Thanks Cydonia. I'll check it out even though I don't like connecting a PC to my music studio in any way. I used to have a full PC studio but have since switched to all hardware. I like the buttons better than the mouse.

 

 

[bob revay]

I just went through something like this. About a year and a half ago I bought a keyboard, after not playing for about 50 years. My hands and fingers hardly moved at all.

 

Playing the piano is an athletic endeavor using mostly the fingers wrists, forearms and arms. Like any athletic endeavor, exercises can help tone the muscles more quickly than just playing. I recommend The Virtuoso Pianist In 60 Exercises by Hanon, Part 1(Exercises 1-20).

 

Of course the exercises are only a good as the way you play them. Start by playing them very slowly and deliberately (see the metronome recommendations). Be sure to keep the wrist quiet and lift the fingers as HIGH as you can. Dont strain! Start with five minutes only, gradually increasing to twenty minutes. When you are no longer straining with a particular exercise, turn loose and go as fast as you can.

 

Doing twenty minutes of Hanon every day will yield amazing results in only a month.

[MikeNZ]

I play the PC1X. Go to www.dlnsound.com if you want to have REAL FM synthesis on the PC1 KFM soundbank for only $20.

 

Back on topic. Turn up your amp, and turn down your fingers.

 

On a synth action you usually play in only a limited velocity range, which is usually relative high as the actions are light and sensitive it is easy to get velocity 127. On a hammer action board you will probably find that the velocity you get with the same effort is lower, maybe in the range 50-70 instead of maybe 60-90+, and you have to really pound the PC1SE to get velocity 127 on the default key sensitivity. If you try to make the PC1SE sound like your synth (especially if you are controlling the same module) you will end up pounding the life out of the board and your hands.

 

I suggest you try out the different velocity sensitivities (look under the Global menu), and you probably want one of the light ones. You can use the built in MidiScope (Global menu, last menu item) or via MIDI out to observe how hard you have to hit the board to get velocity 127. Make sure you can get close to 127 without using excessive force.

 

If that is not enough then you can create a custom Setup that uses a different velocity scaling and offset to alter the sensitivity even more. Look under The Velocity Menu in the contents of the manual if you want to explore this. You can create a setup where it is more sensitive at higher velocities to make it easier to get high velocities without pounding. The trade off is less control at high velocities, but more at lower. This kind of setup is especially useful if you want to play a sound but need to play at relatively high velocity (for example a velocity sensitive filter on a synth) but you dont want to have to pound the board.

 

Once you have the keyboard sensitivity set up appropriately then learn how to play a full range of dynamics. Play scales and arpeggios at p, mf, f etc to develop control and to learn how to play how you want to with a reasonable effort. Dont overdo this. If you play scales for hours on end you will do yourself damage. 5-10 minutes of intensive scales is probably more than enough. No pain, no gain, no playing career!

 

Turn up you amp so you dont have to pound the keyboard to be heard. This is especially important playing in a band.

 

Michael

 

[playstation]

Hi, I also have a new Kurzweil PC1se. For me personally, I had to set the board to "Light3" for the lightest touch possible.

That's in "Touch" in the global settings section (5-25 in the manual).

 

Maybe you already did that, but thought I'd mention it. :grin: