Marshall Cab Information

[Squ]

Hey, I'm looking into buying another 4 x 12 Marshall cab used, and I wanted to know if you had any advice as to what the "cream of the crop" cabs are, and what a good price is. And what speakers should be in it.

 

I'm also wondering why this cab: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-1960A-4x12-Angled-Cabinet?sku=482772

costs $700

 

While this cab: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-1960HW-4x12-Cabinet?sku=601124

costs $1,200

 

So I'm wondering if "Marshall 4x12 vintage cabinet, not sure what year its from works absolutly fine" with some rips on the back of the cab is worth $425? Should I ask/check what kind of speakers are in it if I go to pick it up? What kind of speakers should I be looking for? What are "Greenbacks" ?

[Michael Patrick]

The $1,200 dollar one is hand-soldered ($) and despite the picture it has a salt-and-pepper grill cloth ($). Plus the H30s it is loaded with cost more than the G12T-75s that are in the cheaper cabinet, if I'm remebering correctly.

 

If the speakers are in decent shape and the cab is structurally sound, $425 is a good price for just about any Marshall cab.

[Squ]

So you think it's a good deal regardless of the type of speakers that might be in it?

[Michael Patrick]

Yeah, as long as the cab is structurally sound and the speakers are in good condition. The kind of speakers isn't real important as long as they aren't trashed because you if you don't like them you can always sell the ones that are in there now and throw some different ones in. Except if they are trashed, in which case they don't have any resale value...

 

Did the listing say it was a "vintage" cab? That could mean one of two things -- it is an old cab, or it is a new "tall vintage" 1960TV cab. The 1960TV is a great cab, and comes stock with 25-watt Celestion greenbacks.

[PBBPaul]

The $1,200 dollar one is hand-soldered ($)

 

I saw this. Are there any speaker cabs that aren't hand-soldered?

[revolead]

Why are they sooo expensive?

 

I mean, I understand economics, Marshall appeal, and everything. But considering many other guys are willing to build cabs for well under $500, these just seems a bit useless. Is it the name badge or are they actually THAT good?

[GuitarPlayerFL]

Why waste money on overpriced Marshall cabs when you can get Carvin cabs for almost 1/2 the price and they have superior construction to the Marshalls?

 

Carvin 4X12

 

I had one a while ago and was great. It would be my first choice again if I wanted a big box again. You're ONLY paying for the Marshall name.

[Michael Patrick]

The $1,200 dollar one is hand-soldered ($)

 

I saw this. Are there any speaker cabs that aren't hand-soldered?

 

Most current-production Marshall cabs aren't soldered, they use the push-on tabs.

[Rhino Madness]

Did the listing say it was a "vintage" cab? That could mean one of two things -- it is an old cab, or it is a new "tall vintage" 1960TV cab. The 1960TV is a great cab, and comes stock with 25-watt Celestion greenbacks.

It could also be the cab version with the Vintage 30 speakers .

[Michael Patrick]

Did the listing say it was a "vintage" cab? That could mean one of two things -- it is an old cab, or it is a new "tall vintage" 1960TV cab. The 1960TV is a great cab, and comes stock with 25-watt Celestion greenbacks.

It could also be the cab version with the Vintage 30 speakers .

 

Doh, you're right...

 

OK, one of THREE things...

[mdrs]

Squ....

 

A lot depends on your personal preferences. I have many different speaker cabs. Marshall makes excellent speaker cabs. "Overpriced" is in the eye (wallet??) of the beholder!!

 

I have extensive personal experience with four different Marshall cabs. I'll give you my personal opinions of the four.

 

1960A (angled and straight) This was my first Marshall 4x12, and my first 4x12 of any kind, for that matter. Four G12T 75 watt speakers grace this one. It will give you slightly less speaker break up than the 1960V Vintage. It has a slightly more focused tone, and is all Marshall tone wise.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-1960A-4x12-Angled-Cabinet?sku=482772

 

1960AV Vintage Cab.....my second favorite Marshall 4x12. It's loaded with four Celestion G12 Vintage 30 watt speakers. It has a very classic rock sounding break up.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-1960AV-Vintage-Speaker-Cabinet?sku=482774

 

1936 2x12 speaker cab is loaded with Celestion G12T 75's. This 2x12 holds it's own with the "big boys" (i.e. the 4x12 cabs). I think it's great. It is basically half of a 1960A...meaning same speakers, only this one has two! My son plays it as his primary speaker cab, but has access to my other cabs, and loves it, but doesn't think it's as good as the 4x12 Marshall Cabs. It is a fine cab, however.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-1936-2x12-Cabinet?sku=482776

 

My personal favorite Marshall 4x12 (I haven't played a couple of the less common ones) is the 1960TV 4x12. It's larger than the other Marshall 4x12 speaker cabs, imparting more mids, and bass response. It is loaded with Celestion G12 M 25 watt speakers, which are Greenback reissues. As a 25 watt speaker, it will break up more than other higher wattage speakers. So, you get relatively higher amounts of speaker break up in your tone. This cab has a lot of warm fuzzy bluesy classic rock distortion. I really like it a lot. The down side is that the sound is less clear, which can be annoying, depending on what you are after.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-1960TV-Cabinet?sku=482769

 

Here is a link to a page that has a good table comparing the different Marshall cabs, and what makes them different. This is definately worth checking out;

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document?doc_id=98636&g=guitar&sku=482769

 

I have a Reeves 4x12 loaded with Fane speakers....basically a HiWatt copy. It is very clear, and less distorted than any of the Marshalls.

 

I have some Cornford speaker cabs loaded with some of the same Celestions as the Marshalls. Cornford cabs are slightly larger, and made of what appears to be heavier plywood, giving them a darker tone.

 

I had a Mesa 4x12 with the slightly open back...vented really. It was pretty good, and great quality. It seemed too clear to me, so I got rid of it. Personally, I liked the Marshall tone better.

 

I just got a Fuchs 2x12 loaded with EV 12L's, which are 200 watt speakers. They will not distort!! If you have a excellent quality tube amp, these big EV's will let the amp's tone shine thru, and not really color your tone with speaker distortion. I've just had it for two days. However, I LIKE THIS ONE A LOT!!!

 

I hope these impressions helped. There are many good cabs out there. Don't be too swayed by folks that "poo poo" a certain brand as overpriced. If you like that tone, it's likely not going to be your opinion that it's overpriced!! Of course, everyone has their own budgetary concerns too. So, check them all out!

 

 

[revolead]

Don, I wasn't trying to "poo-poo" the price, I'm wondering why they cost more than everything else. Any ideas?

[mdrs]

Well, they're probably overpriced. LOL!!

 

Actually, most top brands do command, and usually recieve a "top price". The name is worth something. But, IMO, it's not a rip off. I really like the quality of the Marshall cabs I've owned and played. Solid, good handles that make them easy to lift or carry. They come with nice wheels. They do have a very characteristic tone and sound. And, many of us grew up listening to rock and roll played thru Marshall's. So, for many of us, this is what rock and roll IS SUPPOSED TO SOUND LIKE....at least our brains are used to hearing this tone coming from many many great players.

 

The 1960A, IMO, is a good deal. Of course, tone preference, and what is "too expensive" is so personal, and varies amoungst each of us.

 

And, feel free to "Poo Poo" if you want!! I wasn't bitchin about it!!

 

Too often, equipment that we can't afford can become targets of "it's overpriced". Understandable, but not really a great way to explain the "pluses and minuses" of that piece of equipment. An expensive speaker cab can be a great one, while a less expensive one may also be great. Is the expensive one overpriced? Is the less expensive one priced that way to try to gain market share? Probably so. Each may be fine cabs, as far as the tone, etc..

 

But, I'm not picking on you.....certainly not meaning to.

[GuitarPlayerFL]

Don, I wasn't trying to "poo-poo" the price, I'm wondering why they cost more than everything else. Any ideas?

 

Like I said....it has Marshall written on it.

They're good enough for Steve Vai and others.

 

Carvin has a money back guarantee if you don't like it.

 

It's your nickel to spend.

 

[GuitarPlayerFL]

Too often, equipment that we can't afford can become targets of "it's overpriced".

 

Too often, people who pay WAY more than something is worth will justify the price difference in some way to feel better about the purchase.

 

I can definitely afford to piss money away on Marshall cabs. I even have a vintage '65 cab with GBs that came with my JTM-45 from the same year...it's not any better than the Carvin cab, except for $$$ value.

[mdrs]

Too often, equipment that we can't afford can become targets of "it's overpriced".

 

Too often, people who pay WAY more than something is worth will justify the price difference in some way to feel better about the purchase.

 

I can definitely afford to piss money away on Marshall cabs. I even have a vintage '65 cab with GBs that came with my JTM-45 from the same year...it's not any better than the Carvin cab, except for $$$ value.

 

Horse hockey!! LOL. I LOVE all of my Marshall cabs. So, your idea about justifying is interesting, but not applicable, ESPECIALLY when talking about a well established product, used my more pros than need be mentioned.

 

I'm sure Carvin makes excellent speaker cabs.

[GuitarPlayerFL]

Horse hockey!! LOL. I LOVE all of my Marshall cabs.

 

Looks like your Marshall women have you wrapped around their finger. :grin:

 

So, your idea about justifying is interesting, but not applicable, ESPECIALLY when talking about a well established product, used my more pros than need be mentioned.

 

Gibson is well established too, but they've been taken over in quality by PRS, Ibanez, and many other manufacturers. (Now...Gibson makes garbage. )

 

Marshall isn't garbage, but you're not getting anything else for the extra $$$ you pay. :grin: :grin:

 

 

[mdrs]

You may be right, SoCal. Or, you could be missing what I and others see in Marshall cabs. Who's to say?

 

It's all one's personal perspective. The point I was really making, (and not trying to make it a big issue btw) was that calling an excellent product overpriced is a negative comment about that product that does not really convey info about it's quality, just it's cost. But, it does this in a way that knocks the product...Saying "a better deal might be" a Carvin (or whatever), delivers your message, without disparaging the "overpriced" one, which again, happens to be one that seems to have a fairly significant following!! I supposed it's only semantics we're talkin about here.

 

BTW...I have a bunch of Gibson guitars, too. I must be lucky. I picked the good ones!! :grin:

[revolead]

Thanks for clarifying from your point of view, Don.

 

Calling an excellent product overpriced is a negative comment about that product that does not really convey info about it's quality, just it's cost.

 

And I couldn't agree more. There's a reason a Ferrari costs $150,000 and a $50,000 Corvette could kick its ass. Who cares which one costs more or which one is faster, so long as the consumer is throughly pleased, no matter which one he chooses.

 

The only reason I brought it up in this thread is because I've seen a lot of cabinet prices in the last few months, and none of them are anywhere close to $1200. I was thinking of getting a Marshall cab for my Valve Jr. head, but now, I doubt I will. They sound like great cabinets and all, but for $120.00 a speaker (Celestion Vintage 30s) times 4 speakers and 50 bucks of plywood and some parts is around $550.00. I think I'll make my own.

 

Don (since you seem to know more about 4x12s than anyone else), do you have any experience with Eminence speakers, specifically the Red Coat series?

[Hardtail]

Give me a garbage Gibson any day.

[mdrs]

I have seen the adds for Eminence, but have no personal experience with them.

 

I think that you could make a fine speaker cab. That's actually a great idea. Price it out, to be sure it's gonna save you enough to be worth your effort. It would likely be fun to make one.

 

I did put two Celestions G12 H Heritage 30 watt speakers, and two G12 M's (20 watt) into my original Marshall 1960A 4x12 cab. Warning....THESE ARE EXPENSIVE SPEAKERS I had heard some really good things about this set up, so I wanted to try it out. These speakers aren't really broken in fully, but so far, I'm a bit dissapointed about them.

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Celestion-G12H-Heritage-Guitar-Speaker?sku=660259

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Celestion-G12M-Heritage-Guitar-Speaker?sku=660258

 

Your example of the Ferrari and the Vette is an excellent analogy, btw. Well put.

 

Also, I'd not say I know more than many many guys here. I just have farted around with some of these speaker cabs, just playing around, and search for tone IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES!! LOL. I'm always happy to share my experiences. I know that no one can play everything!! So, if I have experience with it, I'll render my opinion, hoping it helps someone in their personal "tone quest"!

[Michael Patrick]

1960AV Vintage Cab.....my second favorite Marshall 4x12. It's loaded with four Celestion G12 Vintage 30 watt speakers. It has a very classic rock sounding break up.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-1960AV-Vintage-Speaker-Cabinet?sku=482774

 

Those 1960AV and BV cabs are loaded with 70 watt Vintage 30s. You'll have to ask someone at Celestion whey the hell they call a 70-watt speaker a Vintage 30

 

Everything else you said is right on...

 

Me, I love me some Marshall cabs. They hold their value well, especially if you buy used.

 

http://www.juhnke.com/mike/ampfamily4b.jpg

[revolead]

Actually, the G12M Greenbacks I found were only going $110.00, listing at $170.00. That's still less than the Vintage 30s, which start at $120.00. However, if I go that route, I found places that make cabs cheaper than I could.

 

Exhibit A: http://www.avatarspeakers.com/

 

In order for me to save money, I'm going to have to go the Eminence route, likely. Either that or Jensen, which work great in Fenders, but I doubt their ability to make a good Marshall-esque speaker. Until I move into a house without picky neighbors, I'll probably just get a Marshall, but until then, I can get some great Brit tones using a pedal in front of the Valve Jr. I'm just looking for a cabinet for it. Right now, I'm using the Peavey Sheffield speaker on my solid state Peavey combo, which sounds okay, but I know I can do better. I'm thinking of maybe just replacing the speaker on that since a 4x12 is going to be very loud in an apartment anyway. Plus, it might make the TransTube amp sound better. I really cannot play at loud enough volumes to justify a clean-channel tube amp just yet, but I'm sure I'll get one eventually. For now, I've got the DG Stomp.

[Michael Patrick]

Actually, the G12M Greenbacks I found were only going $110.00, listing at $170.00. That's still less than the Vintage 30s, which start at $120.00. However, if I go that route, I found places that make cabs cheaper than I could.

 

In order for me to save money, I'm going to have to go the Eminence route, likely. Either that or Jensen, which work great in Fenders, but I doubt their ability to make a good Marshall-esque speaker. Until I move into a house without picky neighbors, I'll probably just get a Marshall, but until then, I can get some great Brit tones using a pedal in front of the Valve Jr. I'm just looking for a cabinet for it. Right now, I'm using the Peavey Sheffield speaker on my solid state Peavey combo, which sounds okay, but I know I can do better. I'm thinking of maybe just replacing the speaker on that since a 4x12 is going to be very loud in an apartment anyway. Plus, it might make the TransTube amp sound better. I really cannot play at loud enough volumes to justify a clean-channel tube amp just yet, but I'm sure I'll get one eventually. For now, I've got the DG Stomp.

 

I prefer H30s over the G12M-25 greenbacks.

 

Avatar speakers sells "Hellatone" speakers, which are Celestions that he puts through a proprietary aging process. He sells his Hellatone 30 (which is a Celestion H30, he just slaps the Hellatone label right over the Celestion label) for less than what you can get an H30 for. Shoot Dave an email for a quote, you won't regret it....

[revolead]

$79.00. That is a bargain.

[Michael Patrick]

$79.00. That is a bargain.

 

And it IS a Celestion. I've got a bunch of em' in different cabs, and I've peeled the Hellatone label off to verify...

[GuitarPlayerFL]

It's all one's personal perspective. The point I was really making, (and not trying to make it a big issue btw) was that calling an excellent product overpriced is a negative comment about that product that does not really convey info about it's quality, just it's cost. But, it does this in a way that knocks the product...Saying "a better deal might be" a Carvin (or whatever), delivers your message, without disparaging the "overpriced" one, which again, happens to be one that seems to have a fairly significant following!! I supposed it's only semantics we're talkin about here.

 

Not a big issue...notice the liberal use of :grin:

 

I will translate the quote above:

 

"We have two cabinets of equal quality. One costs more therefore is better, and it also is used by many people."

 

Of course the more expensive product deserves to be cut down...it's not offering any more in the way of sound quality than the other cabinet (speakers being comparable) and it's poor value.

 

Many pro bands don't even have visible cabs on stage anyway...why would you buy something just because everybody else is buying it?

 

 

I still luv ya...

 

 

[Gifthorse]

Personally it has been my experience with cabinets that you get what you pay for to a degree (unlike electric guitars)--remember EVH built his for $200

 

For my tastes I haven't heard any cabinet that sounds as nice as an Orange. But Orange cabs are pretty pricey. But thats cuz they are great.

 

I think Orange 4/12 are around $900 new. I personally doubt anything Marshall would offer would 'beat' its tonal quality. Maybe it would equal it. I am referring to Marshall's top of the line cab. I would garantee the cheaper one wouldn't hold a candle to it. I know my singer owned a top of the line Mesa Boogie cab with Vintage 30's. It was expensive and pretty darn nice, but the Orange still OWNED it.

 

As for Carvin, I had one like 20 years ago. It was ok, I dunno how old it was cuz I got it used. Orange to me is seriously head and shoulders above other cabs. Thats all personal pref.

 

I first heard one in a studio I recorded in like 15 years ago and was completely floored at how much better it sounded than my Carvin that I owned at the time. The difference is that they used to use the t75 celestions. Now they use Vintage 30's.

 

Personally I prefer the T75's as Vintage 30's have too much high end sizzle for me. The T75's have more even balance of lows and highs, and it still has mids too. But thats personal pref.

 

Orange seems to just have more ground connection and tighter low end. You feel it bigtime when you play through one.

[mdrs]

1960AV Vintage Cab.....my second favorite Marshall 4x12. It's loaded with four Celestion G12 Vintage 30 watt speakers. It has a very classic rock sounding break up.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-1960AV-Vintage-Speaker-Cabinet?sku=482774

 

Those 1960AV and BV cabs are loaded with 70 watt Vintage 30s. You'll have to ask someone at Celestion whey the hell they call a 70-watt speaker a Vintage 30

 

Everything else you said is right on...

 

Me, I love me some Marshall cabs. They hold their value well, especially if you buy used.

 

http://www.juhnke.com/mike/ampfamily4b.jpg

 

That what I call an awesome "wall of sound"

[Gifthorse]

I love G12 second to the t75. G12 has more bluesy punch to my ears to the Greenback which sounds a bit more muddy.

 

Celestion has a speaker emulator/sampler on their site. It is very helpful when deciding speaker tones.

 

Everyone loves vintage 30's right now. I dunno, its not like I don't like them. With a nice guitar and amp they will sound awesome. But if you want to get all picky I like the 75's. They just sound a bit cleaner on the low end, less midsizzle.

 

I am a firm believer that midrange is necessary for guitar to cut through a mix, mind you. But if you have T75's they will stil have mids with the right amp/eq/guitar.