OT - In defense of Jay Leno and today's Tonight Show Band

[stepay]

This came up in another thread that I didn't want to steer away from its main focus (Tommy Newsom passing).

 

As much as I loved The Tonight Show band when Carson was doing The Tonight Show, the current band isn't made up of slouches. Kevin Eubanks is one hell of a guitar player, and Marvin Smith (Smitty) is a great drummer. Just a different kind of music than Doc Severinson's band played.

 

The Tonight Show is not now and never can be what it was when there were only three networks, but Leno has done a very good job, and I think the show will only slip once Conan O'Brien takes over.

 

[discuss]

[ProfD]

As far the Tonight Show Band goes, they could play to the same level or even better than the Doc Severinson led ensemble.

 

I agree, it is not the same show but not bad either. Even the Letterman Band sounds different to me. Most of those cats have been there forever.

 

IMO, musicians play what is hip to their generation while trying to stay current too. Everything must change.

[delirium]

I agree, Jay Leno is very good. In fact it's the only show I can watch in US after Bill Maher's "Politically Incorrect" show was shut down (because we have freedom of speech? )

 

And yeah, Conan O'Brien will bring "tonight show" down for sure. He is not in the same league what Jay, not even close.

[Finale]

All those bands are crap compared to...

 

http://www.dangerouspolkafilms.com/images/polkaheader.jpg

[kad]

One highlight that stands out for me from the Johnny/Doc era is when John Mclaughlin came on and did a smokin' rendition of Cherokee with Doc's band. Blew everyone's socks off...

[Corner Pocket]

I recall Louis Belson sitting next to Johnny's desk with only high-hats and a pair of sticks. He got more music out of that than just about any drummer can with a complete kit.

 

I think the Eubanks led band is working better than the earlier Branford Marsalis led band,(am I remembering this right???) I'll take Conan's band with Max Weinberg over Paul Shaffer on Letterman. They are both top level bands, but after more than 20 years, the Shaffer led band is getting a bit tired to my ears. I haven't got there yet with Conan.

 

I also recall an Allman Brothers Band appearance on Carson in the late 80's early 90's. They played with the full Severinson led band. Absolutely smokin'.

[mate stubb]

I agree, Jay Leno is very good. In fact it's the only show I can watch in US after Bill Maher's "Politically Incorrect" show was shut down (because we have freedom of speech? )

 

And yeah, Conan O'Brien will bring "tonight show" down for sure. He is not in the same league what Jay, not even close.

 

Bill Maher continues his shenanegans these days on HBO.

[JohnH]

The Tonight Show band is great, but they need somebody to write a coherent theme song. The current song is just a jam with no structure nothing memorable. They should be able to do better than that. The theme to Conan is incredible.

 

JH

[stepay]

The Tonight Show band is great, but they need somebody to write a coherent theme song. The current song is just a jam with no structure nothing memorable. They should be able to do better than that. The theme to Conan is incredible.

 

JH

 

The closing Tonight Show theme song is much more memorable than the opening theme -- The closing song I believe written by Branford Marsalis; not sure who wrote the opening. I play it (the closing theme) sometimes just for fun. It's a nice little tune.

[skykeys]

Good topic. I'd like to comment on a few of the replies here.

 

While I believe Eubanks is a quality musician; heck, he's from Philly, how can he not be? . . . . the band itself I think is not as versatile as Doc Severinson's led band, IMHO. The reason perhaps is simply because they are not called upon to play as diverse a style of music. How many great jazz crooners appear on Jay's show now? If they do, they bring their own band usually, like Tony Bennett for example. But those singers never brought their own band in the old days, interestingly.

 

I can remember the Severinson band rocking pretty well when they had to, plus they did all of the big band arrangements. Did you ever see when Budy Rich played with them? It was top notch playing all around.

 

Also, Carson used to occasionally "feature" the Tonight Show band. Thought I don't watch Jay regularly, I've seen it many, many times over the years, and I cannot recall ever seeing or even hearing that Jay would "feature" the band, the way Carson did.

 

I'm not knocking Eubanks' band at all, I think it's a fine group of musicians; but I'd put Severinson's version up against them any time.

 

Either way, it's a a great gig for a musician to have.

 

I agree with the statement that the Tonight Show needs a better, more structured theme song. Johnny Carson's was classic (as you probably recall - written by Paul Anka). And yes, Conan's theme song is also very good.

 

I happen to think the Weinberg band is very good. I believe one of the members of Weinberg's band is in that Beatles tribute band, The Fab Faux, along with former Schaffer band member Will Lee. You should check this out:

 

I'm sorry I never saw the Allman Brothers play with The Tonight Show band. Damn, that must have been good.

 

Regards.

[Chris Link]

I agree, Jay Leno is very good. In fact it's the only show I can watch in US after Bill Maher's "Politically Incorrect" show was shut down (because we have freedom of speech? )

 

Freedom of speech doesn't mean someone has to give you a platform and pay you to say what's on your mind. On commercial television or radio, if you say something that to p@#% off enough people that your sponsors get hurt you're off the air. Simple economics.

 

Now, if the government came in and shut down Bill Maher, then we be talking about a First Amendment violation. Censorship is NOT when the market decides you have to go.

[jook]

Just goes to show how tastes can differ...

 

I find Leno boring, predictable and outright depressing to watch. It's just plain bad and reeks of studio executive ideas.

 

I think Conan's a far superior show. He's got something going, that seems to tap into the quality of shows and natural born showmanship of a past era - yet with really modern day sorta humour of playing off awkwardness, and flaunting the flaws.

 

And the bands? I don't think it even compares! The Max Weinberg Seven is the best band I've heard on a TV show - pure class and taste - and they reek of character and actually add to the show. The Leno band is so generic and a-typical pub band (and I know Eubanks is a great player, but they don't seem to have any enthusiasm or heart in what they play - and it seems almost like the same stuff every night). The bands actually seem to represent the style of each show pretty accurately from my point of view...

[delirium]

Conan's jokes are on secondary school level.

[delirium]

Freedom of speech doesn't mean someone has to give you a platform and pay you to say what's on your mind. On commercial television or radio, if you say something that to p@#% off enough people that your sponsors get hurt you're off the air. Simple economics.

 

Now, if the government came in and shut down Bill Maher, then we be talking about a First Amendment violation. Censorship is NOT when the market decides you have to go.

 

He said nothing but the truth, and I can assure you that station lost so many viewers because of firing him so it had nothing to do with economics. Regular censorship imposed by some agency like it was present in communist countries.

 

[Ed Stanley]

Just goes to show how tastes can differ...

 

I find Leno boring, predictable and outright depressing to watch. It's just plain bad and reeks of studio executive ideas.

 

I think Conan's a far superior show. He's got something going, that seems to tap into the quality of shows and natural born showmanship of a past era - yet with really modern day sorta humour of playing off awkwardness, and flaunting the flaws.

 

And the bands? I don't think it even compares! The Max Weinberg Seven is the best band I've heard on a TV show - pure class and taste - and they reek of character and actually add to the show. The Leno band is so generic and a-typical pub band (and I know Eubanks is a great player, but they don't seem to have any enthusiasm or heart in what they play - and it seems almost like the same stuff every night). The bands actually seem to represent the style of each show pretty accurately from my point of view...

 

+1 Well said.

[mate stubb]

Tonight show HAS to be more mainstream due to it's position in late night lore.

 

If Letterman had taken over, or when Conan takes over, they will be more mainstream and less edgy than they are now. Wait and see.

[jimtheswede]

Below is the vid on Youtube of the Allman Bros. with Doc and friends. You sure don't see this kind of stuff on TV anymore!

 

Allman Brothers on Tonight Show

[Joe Muscara]

There's another one, from the previous album/tour.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W8dsdb6MZdE

[stepay]

Tonight show HAS to be more mainstream due to it's position in late night lore.

 

If Letterman had taken over, or when Conan takes over, they will be more mainstream and less edgy than they are now. Wait and see.

 

Yep. Big difference between 11:30 and 12:30. College kids stay up and watch Conan. Most adults don't. Conan's humor has been targeted at a younger audience. He will have to mature it up a bit when he takes over The Tonight Show. Letterman's stuff is less edgy since he moved from 12:30 to 11:30 -- he no longer wears wrestling shoes for one thing.

[delirium]

He will have to mature it up a bit when he takes over The Tonight Show.

 

[Chris Link]

"He said nothing but the truth, and I can assure you that station lost so many viewers because of firing him so it had nothing to do with economics. "

 

No doubt you can find some ratings data to back up this assertion.

 

"Regular censorship imposed by some agency like it was present in communist countries."

 

It's laughable to equate Bill Maher losing his job over a remark that many found offensive with the jailing of jounalists and librarians (Cuba), the assassination of dissident journalists (Russia), and the direct government control of media (just about every despotic regime on earth). Hell, as someone pointed out, Maher still has a show on cable. If Bush, Cheney and Rove are fascist tyrants, they sure are the most imcompetent fascist tyrants in history.

 

 

[jook]

I do worry a little that the move to The Tonight Show will tame Conan's show down a fair bit, but on the other hand, I reckon he has a better chance of pulling it off than most. He seems like he has a really good understanding of television. And afterall, he's already proven that he can be successful with prime time suitable material many times in the past: from hosting the Oscars, to writing for The Simpsons, and SNL.

 

And while I hate to explain comedy (it really is futile), it does grate me that many people who don't seem to get Conan's sense of humour have to dismiss it by labeling it (or the people that enjoy it) as being immature. Comedy can be just as subjective a thing as music, and just because you can't appreciate it, doesn't mean you're above it.

[stepay]

I do worry a little that the move to The Tonight Show will tame Conan's show down a fair bit, but on the other hand, I reckon he has a better chance of pulling it off than most. He seems like he has a really good understanding of television. And afterall, he's already proven that he can be successful with prime time suitable material many times in the past: from hosting the Oscars, to writing for The Simpsons, and SNL.

 

And while I hate to explain comedy (it really is futile), it does grate me that many people who don't seem to get Conan's sense of humour have to dismiss it by labeling it (or the people that enjoy it) as being immature. Comedy can be just as subjective a thing as music, and just because you can't appreciate it, doesn't mean you're above it.

 

Jook, don't get me wrong, I like Conan O'Brien. He's a little late for me, but I'm up a couple times a month that late and watch his show. He's been very successful as a writer for SNL and The Simpsons (both shows I enjoy), and now obviously with his show. The show when he went to Finland because he looks very much like the country's female president, was hilarious. While there he went to a spa for men, and the tradition was that they went nude into the very cold ocean and then immediately came out and ate sausages. He commented on that, and of course an easy joke, but still very funny. At 11:30 on The Tonight Show though, he will have a broader audience. Like it or not, he will have to change things. My 66 year old mother watches Jay Leno. She wouldn't get half the things Conan says on his show, and of the the stuff she would understand, she would only find maybe half of that funny. Like I said, he's going to have to mature it up a bit. I know he understands that, and NBC certainly does. It will be a different Conan than we've been seeing on his show. I think he'll do a fine job, but not necessarily any better than Jay Leno. Will be interesting to see what Jay does. He could just become a fixture in Las Vegas or is ABC has any stones, they could get rid of Nightline and have Leno compete with Conan and Letterman. Leno is a workaholic who doesn't like to go on vacations, so I know he'll be doing something.

[Bridog6996]

I don't find either Leno or Letterman funny at all. Conan is my favorite of what's on now. I thought that Craig Kilborn easily had them all beat. Unfortunately, that British guy who took over Craig's show is a real snoozer.

 

Talking about "late night" bands, though, they're all good. You still see guest artists using the house band from time to time. I remember seeing Harry Connick Jr. performing on one of those shows not long ago, and while I can't remember which one it was, I remember that he used the show's band to back him up. There are other instances as well, but nothing else springs to mind at the moment. They're all monster players, though, and if a musical guest brought charts for them to play you can bet they'd play the crap out of them.

 

I'm surprised nobody is talking about the Saturday Night Live band. The SNL band has had some pretty heavy alumni over the years, including David Sanborn, Michael Brecker, and of course Paul Shaffer (now of Letterman fame). If you ask me, the SNL band of the late 80s/early 90s with G.E. Smith at the helm has all the other "late night" bands beat hands-down.

[skykeys]

Bridog6996, I agree that the SNL band was very good. All of the TV late night talk show bands have top notch musicians. They wouldn't be there if they weren't, because there are a lot of good players out there who would love any one of those gigs. While I have my favorites, probably which is "your" favorite is as subjective as anything else when it comes to music. I suggest you look at the youtube links previously posted to Johnny Carsons's Tonight Show Band playing with the Allman Brothers Band. As I write this, I haven't checked further, but I'm sure (hoping) there must be other videos of Carson's Tonight Show band playing with Buddy Rich and other great cats.

 

Regards.

[Chaso DeChaso]

I dont happen to watch Leno (or much late night TV...or, now that I think about it, much TV) but I did see Kevin Eubanks with his band at the Iridium a while back (maybe '05?) and feel compelled to comment. I can honestly say this show displayed about the highest level of sheer command of instruments I've seen in jazz and perhaps anywhere. These guys are fully on par with any of the Mahavishnu-type classic fusion groups or any of the latter day successors. The rhythm section in particular Marvin Smitty Smith and Charnette Moffett were terrifyingly, jaw-droppingly good and again the equal really of anyone I've witnessed (including the various line-ups of Steve Coleman, Dave Holland, Don Byron, Jonas Hellborg you name it). One could always criticize on the level of "Is this totally original?" (e.g., a fan of exclusively free jazz would not have loved the show I saw, although frankly my tastes run in that direction and I was thrilled with the music) or "Is this band versatile enough for a variety show like Leno's?" (I have no idea about that quite honestly) but I don't believe anyone can impugn the virtuosity or musicality of Eubanks or the bunch of guys I saw that night...