VR-760: Anything equivalent available today?

[Harvey K]

First of all, hi again to anyone who might remember me from several months ago when I first joined this wonderful forum. I'd just gotten back into a regular-gigging band (first time in 25 years!) and thoroughly enjoyed the banter and camaraderie. I also learned an awful lot.

 

Anyway, after a few months I quit the band for multiple reasons (in no particular order):

 

1) Too many late, late nights

2) Too many smoke-filled dumps

3) Too may sore muscles from lugging around PA system, lights, etc.

4) Scary, freak-show guitarist

5) Too little willpower to resist drinking heavily before and during the gigs. "Moderation" remains a difficult concept for me.

 

Then I ruptured my Achilles tendon in December, which put me out of commission for quite a while. Not as painful an injury as people think, but it takes FOREVER to heal, especially at my "advanced" age of 52.

 

Anyway, I'm now "back in the saddle" and playing again, this time backing up an 11-year-old guitar phenom. I'm still using my original, trusty Alesis QS7 -- I'm an all-in-one, one keyboard kinda guy -- but am seriously thinking about an upgrade. The QS has served me fine but I've never loved its vintage sounds, and that's what I use 90% of the time.

 

After much research, including going back several years on this forum, I've determined the Roland VR-760 appears to be exactly what I'm looking for. I saw a YouTube video of a guy playing its organ patch and it just sounded fabulous. And most reviews I've read are very positive. However, I haven't seen any used 760s on eBay ... and I can't seem to locate an equivalent model currently for sale new.

 

The closest seems to be the Nord Electro2 but it appears to lack any synth sounds, right? I definitely want at least some basic synths.

 

Did Roland replace the VR-760 with an equivalent keyboard? Are there other choices I'm missing?

 

Bottom line: I want a simple, all-in-one keyboard with solid "vintage" sounds like the old VR-760. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Sven Golly]

There's no direct replacement from Roland for the VR-760... but it's also known under the "V-Combo" moniker, so perhaps searching for that might find something on eBay.

 

I'd also suggest searching for "Roland VR" and leaving off the -760, to enable you to find items like "Roland VR760", "Roland VR 760", and the like.

 

The VR-760 is a great board, and the ability to take SRX boards makes it an even better choice for your synth needs.

 

Finally, no, the Electro does not have any synth sounds at all. The Nord Stage does, but that's a significantly larger investment to make.

 

 

[retrokeys]

Sven is right. There is no direct sub for the VR 760 but you might wish to consider another option. First, the VR is a substantial piece of gear. If weight is a concern too you (and with tendon problems it might be) then the Electro 2 is right for you. The lack of synth voices is not really an issue when you consider that the synth voices on the VR weren't that good and for about 400 bucks or less you could get an Alesis Micron or similar synth. The Micron even has a vocoder and weighs next to nothing. The combo of the two would still weigh less than the VR, cost about the same and less than the Nord stage as well. Just a thought. Welcome back to the gig world.

[Harvey K]

Good to hear from you again, Sven. We "talked" several times last year. Retro, looks like you joined five days after I did!

 

Good point on the weight issue. I wonder how much my Alesis QS7 weighs? If the VR-760 is significantly heavier I might not want to go in that direction. I'm a weakling. On the other hand, I'm kinda stubborn about wanting to stick with a one-keyboard setup.

 

By the way, I saw a listing in the Garage Sale area for a "Nord Compact" -- may I assume that's the 73-key Nord Stage?

 

Speaking of, if I did decide to spend the big bucks and consider the Stage, is the difference in key weighting very significant. I noticed the Stage is listed as having "weighted" keys. I'm not quite sure what this whole "waterfall" keys thing is about. Thanks again.

[mate stubb]

Nord Stage adds a synth to its clavs, organ, rhodes, wurlis, and acoustic pianos.

 

The synth is analogue modelling, fm, and wavetable, so it doesn't do rompler like the Roland. But it's very nice.

[Mark Schmieder]

I didn't realise Roland had "officially" killed off the VR-760, but then they rarely remove things from the catalogue, preferring instead to let them die a quiet death. I had hoped to check them out again last year after some glowing reviews on this forum.

 

As for eBay searches in my experience one needs to try several search strings, as "Roland VR" will not find "Roland VR760" but will find "Roland VR 760" and "Roland VR-760". But perhaps I just haven't figured out how best to create search strings.

 

I generally try several variants and add them to my search criteria, with daily email if one is found. As things that are rare get snatched quickly, more frequent email might be a better option, if you don't think you'll be inundated with hits.

[jook]

Another option to consider: the Kurzweil PC1se, or any of the PC series with the Classic Keys ROM installed.

 

This gives you excellent Rhodes, Wurlies, Pianets, Mellotron and more. It's advantage over the Electro is in having a lot more sounds (especially orchestral stuff) and a better acoustic piano. Also a more weighted action that'd suit piano playing more.

 

On the other hand - the Electro has a better organ (PC1-series only has organ samples AFAIK, while the PC2-series has a "KB3" mode which is decent but by general consensus is nowhere as good as the newer clones like the Nords).

 

I think, if acoustic pianos and a variety of sounds (which lean towards vintage stuff) is important for you, then the Kurzweil PC1se would be the best fit in terms of size, and features all-in-one. If organ's more important, then the Electro and VR-Combo might be your choice.

[eric]

I've owned most of the gear mentioned in this thread. The V-Combo is nice, but I was never a huge fan of its onboard EP and piano sounds (since then that has been fixed with new SRX boards). The V-Combo is an extremely well-built keyboard, with a waterfall action to die for, real drawbars and a pretty decent 3-way UI that gives a very intuitive way to get at the various engines. I've written many, many words about the V-Combo on this forum, so do a little searching if you want to learn more.

 

The Electro is a great instrument - one of my favorites - but it is really focused on Hammond, Clav, Wurly, Rhodes, CP80...not so good on the acoustic piano (other than the mono piano which is actually not so bad...kanker loves it!). But the Electro does not have any kind of synth or rompler type sounds in it. I've written many, many words about the Electro on this forum, so do a little searching if you want to learn more.

 

Which leads you to the Nord Stage or the Stage Compact, which are the same instrument in different configurations - 88 weighted, 76 weighted or 73 waterfall for the Compact. Check out Clavia's website for specs on all three. I had the Compact for a few months as a potential replacement for my Electro, but discovered that I was too much in love with the Electro and could not justify the heavy expense of the Compact. I've written many, many words about the Nord Compact on this forum, so do a little searching if you want to learn more.

 

Other options for you would include investing in a very good 76-note board that is a rompler. Not sure if you really crave the drawbar modeling or not, but if you are replacing a QS7, I think you would be very pleased with any of the Big 3's latest offerings. Check out the Motif ES7 or XS7, the Fantom X7, the Triton Extreme 76 and also the Kurzweil PC1se or PC1x. All of these are great keyboards.

 

Hope this helps!

[Nordude]

When 90% of the demand consists of vintage sounds (Hammond, Rhodes, Clav, Wurly, etc), then I'd say: get a Nord Electro 73 and add a simple and cheap ROMpler 61-keys synth to it as a second board. That synth could provide the occasional acoustic strings/brass, pad, lead, etc. (the other 10%). Perhaps such a synth has a good enough acoustic piano as well... although I actually like two of the NE's acoustic piano's (the newer ones: the Yamaha and Steinway), if played in stereo and with some outboard reverb. YMMV of course.

For that second synth, I'm thinking Yamaha MM6, Yamaha S03 or S30 (2nd hand), Korg X50 or X5D, 2nd hand Triton LE, Roland XP30, perhaps even a Roland RS-synth, Alesis Q-series, etc...

I don't think virtual analog (Micron, etc) is really the demand, is it?

If one board really is what you want, then some workstation (Motif, Fantom... see earlier posts) might fit the bill. And if the AP/EP in the VR760 fits your bill... why not? It hás 2 SRX-slots for expanding. Could be a pretty neat machine (although not that light-weighted).

[KenDub]

After seeing the topic, I had to register & reply. About a year ago I was determined to get a V-Combo. At that time all the major retailers still had them showing up on their websites. But, when I would call no one had one in stock, and they all assured me they could order one. No one was aware that Roland had stopped making them, and none in their warehouse.

I decided to visit the local GC & Sam Ash to try my luck. SA found 2 of them in their NYC store. Both were floor models, but I decided to go for it and have one shipped to Ohio. They were going to charge me $1300 w/full warranty plus shipping costs.

As I stood at the register paying my deposit, another local keys player walked up. He was looking at KORG & Yamaha arrangers. The sales rep seemed to remember that this guy had a VR-760 and asked him how he liked it. He said he loved it, but wasn't using it any more. It was just sitting in his studio.

End result, he agreed to sell it to me for $950. It was very mint. We each gave the sales guy $50 for the hookup. He got cash to help pay for his new board, and I got my VR-760. And, it had the SRX07 Ultimate Keys already installed.

It's a great board. The waterfall keyboard is outstanding and the ease of use is very gig friendly. The pianos are mediocre without the expansion board...That board makes all the difference. Weighs about 35lbs. Not too tragic...I gig with a Trirton EX88 & the VR-760.

Maybe Sam Ash NYC still has one...you never know. If I had the cash for a C1, I'd sell you mine. (I have major GAS for the C1 right now)

Good Luck

 

[lawman]

Maybe one of you VR 760 owners can help me with this. When I adjust the individual volume control - up or down - on any of the organ, piano or synth modules, the volume goes way, way down and doesn't come back up as far even if I then adjust that volume control up. Is this peculiar to my machine or is it a design parameter? It's quite annoying.

[Jon Doe]

Is this when you're switching between the 3 "one touch" buttons, or switching between patches? If you have an expression pedal, make sure it's not set quiet. Also on the organ part, the drawbars affect the volume.

 

 

[MikeNZ]

Ditto on the Kurzweil PC1 series. They excel at classic keys. The organs are very good, however if you are seriously into tonewheel organs and drawbar pulling you will want something else.

 

Some of the clonewheels have drawbars plus a selection of other keyboard sounds. The XK1 is one - full drawbar organ plus a few other sounds, and weighs 33 lbs.

 

Michael

[Legatoboy]

Almost all volume knobs work this way, and the VR760 has alot of 'KNOBS'. . . I like Knobs!

 

when you move the volume knobs 'at all' (up or down) for any of the 3 sections, they all work the same way, the volume 'immediately' will reset to *Zero first. Then you can 'Re-Adjust' it to the desired location. This is part and parcel of the operating system in the 760 and many other 'Knob' oriented instruments.

 

it is done to allow for the complete range of volume for that 'Edit' to be perceived I believe. If it was set to, lets say 80% in the patch, but your knob when you booted the 760 up was at 50% on the instrument when you took it out of the case, if they didn't do that you may think 'relatively' that you volume should be 130%.

 

To eliminate this confusion, Roland and other MFG'rs have adopted the convention of once a knob is touched 'At all' it resets to *Zero first to eliminate confusion. This is pretty much the standard, though I admit it takes some getting used to and can be confusing. What I do is immediately turn my knob to the left (00) first, and then turn right to reset it in the outlined range on the stencel of the dial. Some OP sys 'I think' will allow you to turn it right up until 100% is reached and then it will jump reset to *Zero at 101%. Actually the 760 may be doing that, I don't have mine in front of me. Every since I had my Mini-Moog ('74 I think that's where I first encountered this convention) I always turn 'her' (the instrument's that is) knobs to the left first and then to the right to reset within the visible range on the KNOB! I do this instinctively now

 

Obviously, I love saying or writing and metaphoreizing the word KNOBS as you may perceive! I just love big Knobs, they make me very excited and gleeful!

 

lb

[Leberwurst]

just out of curiosity, you like knockers too?

 

http://www.avidimages.com/preview/2006/08/19/brass_door_knocker_avidimages_772_prev.jpg

[Legatoboy]

just out of curiosity, you like knockers too?

 

 

Leberwurst I'm glad you brought that up!

 

As I think it a point thats of interest to many of us here on the forums of the '2nd floor' or rack-mount sort. As you know there are many of us of the let's say 'South of the Border' persuasion too and also those of use who prefer and nice hybrid mixture. Neither is any better of worse than the other in terms of pure inspiration and gleeful excitement! But as we all know there is a person there also, not to get too sidetracked by pure physical attributes. Also many times the unit itself comes together in way that doesnt add-up in any predefined molecular structure algorithms either, atzo, to proceed!

 

I think, a combination of Knobs AND Knockers is probably, at least for me, the best of both worlds. That combination, for me, I can't speak for others mind you, is probably better than either of the two by themselves.

 

But you never-every know when either attribute, all by itself, just by the shear magnitude of it's individual quality or dimension would be so stupefyingly overwhelming as to even outdistance the classic Knob/Knocker combination in tandem with it's 'dual redundancy' integration !

 

Photos are available upon request from my personal reference library! Here are some of my favorite Knocker sets:

 

Scary Knockers. . . .

 

lb

[Legatoboy]

BigBird not to steal your thread.

 

Does anybody have any comment on playing piano on the VR-760? I know it's not weighted but regardless of that in terms to first the SRX's performance in the 760 and secondly the built in pianos which I sometimes use 'layered' with the SRX-11 pianos if they don't 'beat' too much in a 70/20 ratio in some registrations.

 

I have the SRX-11 loaded in mine, I'm just wondering if anyone else has the same piano card in theirs and what their take is on the instrument in general in performance, organ and synth section also!

 

lb

[lawman]

John Doe,

The volume downshift occurs when I first touch an individual volume knob, and is unrelated to shifting between One Touch buttons or between patches (by "patches" do you mean the numeric registration presets?). Also, see my response to LegatoBoy below.

[lawman]

Legatoboy,

Thanks for your info - it was very helpful. In addition, I just got off the phone with "John" in Roland Customer Support (I was on hold only for a couple of minutes - no complaints there!). He told me that the individual volume knobs are "software" controls that can have their settings "memorized" at the factory - which they do to maximize the signal-to-noise ratio. Essentially, Roland uses maxed-out individual volumes on their preset sounds and when you move one of the individual volume controls to less than 100%, your sound level drops. This makes sense to me. I just figured out that when the individual volume control is set to 50% to begin with, the same sound level (or approximately the same level) is achieved when that knob is turned to 100%. According to John, the optimal setting is 100% on the individual volume control, using the master volume knob (which is a "hardware" control) to set the actual output. Otherwise, if the individual control is set at less than 100%, you'd have to goose the master control up which would add more noise to the signal. FYI, I'm no longer in a band and bought the V-Combo to play with at home - I've never really learned to take advantage of its full potential (the manual hasn't helped me a lot) and I may ask some more elementary questions of you guys in the future. Thanks.

 

[Legatoboy]

mvb,

 

very interesting, i have volume control problems with the 760 at gigs. as a rule i only use it on smaller gigs in smaller rooms. I also use it when i want an easy setup.

 

I copied/pasted your post into a word document!

 

thanks,

tony

[KenDub]

I have the SRX-11 loaded in mine, I'm just wondering if anyone else has the same piano card in theirs and what their take is on the instrument in general in performance, organ and synth section also!

 

Legatoboy-

I use my V-Combo live with a Triton EX88. I have the SRX07 Ultimate Keys card in mine. The piano sounds are ok, but don't seem to cut through a live mix as well as my Korg. I use it primarily for organ & some synth sounds. I use some of the EP sounds too...the KNOBS make them easily tweakable live.

And, I have had some MIDI issues when connecting to other boards...doesn't play nice with others.

For my needs (organ & some synth/EP's) I love it!

 

[Legatoboy]

KenDub,

 

Yeah, the pianos even the SRX's, and the keybed seems to be mismatched. The velocity seems to run too hot, and the 'Heavy' vel. setting seems to take too much life out of the pianos for my taste.

 

Set on Med or Light, the VR760 pianos or even the loaded SRX pianos on the SRX11 tend to 'Yelp' and not cut through a band mix. But when I use it in small spaces or stages, the pianos are not bad. There seems to be a velocity/volume issue with the 760 and the relationship of those issues (v/v) to the signal bandwidth of the pianos sound or something like that. I can't quite make them sound good except at lower volumes where the band is playing quieter!

 

Though one night they were absolutely amazing (SXR11). It was a very tight little alcove the band was playing in. Again, my qualms with the Roland pianos in a band setting!

Though the FP-4 is interesting me and the FP7 in terms of their new DP's, they played well in the store!

 

lb

 

[jeffincltnc]

I have a VR-760 with the SRX-07 Ultimate Keys and the SRX-11 piano. I think the sound is great and it's a great solution. I'm just not really using it and would rather have something with 88 keys and weighted keys. I picked it up to have an organ primarily and put the SRX cards in to give me some good EPs and upgrade the piano and it was great. Now I am getting a real Hammond and don't have the use for it.

 

I am looking to make a trade for an RD700SX if someone is hungry to find a VR-760 that really hasn't been used much. email jeffinpghpa@yahoo.com