JonathanD Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I am a bassist and post at the lowdown most of the time. Today I had a question for you about tube amps. Short version: Do tube amps reach near max volume (in general or sometimes even. I know some manufacturers are probably different) at an early point in the knobs turn from 0-10 leaving the last half of the knob as just saturation for the tubes? Also, why are tube amps louder than solid state at the same wattage? They seem that way at least. _______________________________________________________________ One of the guitarists I play with boasts that his 50 watt Marshall is only on 3 and still very loud. I suggested that the pot attenuation could just have little change after the early numbers. He turned it up much farther and there wasnt that big a difference after 5-6. After 5-6 it did get warmer tone though which leads me to believe it is saturation. For my bass amp the last 1/4 of the knob is where all the volume is. So knob placement seems irrelevant due to gain stages and pot attenuation differences. Thanks, Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geoff Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 So, you are discovering the *big* difference between guitar amplification where most people desire tube saturation/overdrive, and Bass amplification where, generally (but not always) the idea is to have huge amounts of power and play cut back so as to have a large degree of clean headroom for the bass. It is low-frequency square-wave distortion which cooks bass speaker voice-coils - over on the Lowdown, you'll have seen several of the guys play 1000W amps through 600W speakers and they come to no harm providing you are careful not to induce over-excursion due to excess bass roll-on. This is different from the higher frequencies used with guitars, where over-excursion due to 'peaking' tends to be the main destroyer of cones. Also remember that for each octave you drop *down* you need twice the power for the same volume. Another reason why a low 'B' is so difficult to articulate clearly, and why you need 400 Watts to compete with a guitar and 100W Marshall. The whole science behind bass v guitar amplification is just completely different, but a lot of folk, not having had to play serious bass, don't really appreciate this. And yes, tube amps *are* louder than their SS equivalent. My 30W Tube Laney is *much* louder than my 65 W SS Fender Studio 85. Geoff "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music The Geoff - blame Caevan!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlyFoxx Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Lots of tube amps get loud quickly as you turn up the knob. 3-4 is usually pretty loud with a good 50 watt amp and should be loud enough most of the time unless the drummer plays really hard. At 5 it's pretty common for amps to start running out of clean headroom and not get a ton louder as you proceed to 10. Of course the above is a generalization...your mileage may vary. What you might need is a decibel meter so it can be demonstrated just how loud everybody is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Madness Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 It's time for your guitarist to get a lower wattage amp or an attenuator (like the THD HotPlate) so he can keep enjoying the glorified tone of a true tube amp and not kill everything in the amp's path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdrs Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 What'd ya say? I can't hear you......... :grin: Don "There once was a note, Pure and Easy. Playing so free, like a breath rippling by." http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=574296 http://www.myspace.com/imdrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Iverson Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I guess it's true... not long ago I was playing in a medium size hall and was told my Fender Princeton was too loud on 3... so we put it on a chair and turned it down to 2, and everybody thought it was fine then. Actually it didn't sound all that much different, and I got pretty good sustain. It wasn't a heavy duty lead guitar gig anyway! The main thing is for all of us to be able to hear each other anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megiliel Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Let's just hope your guitarist doesn't get an amp that goes to eleven... www.myspace.com/donahelena Support bored teenage ghost hunters. www.myspace.com/rock_paranormal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Iverson Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I played a little while with a bassist whose amp did go to 11. He was often told "hey man, please turn it down just a little" and he would do so, until people turned their backs, and then he'd turn it up even more.... Because, after all, the people in the next county can't wait to hear him.... I'm sure they were standing in line to TELL him so! Seriously, no one asked him to turn it way down, just a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megiliel Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Loud noises hurt my ears, but I'm the kind of person who would probably turn it up a tiny bit just to annoy people. But only if they were having a good enough day that they wouldn't kill me... www.myspace.com/donahelena Support bored teenage ghost hunters. www.myspace.com/rock_paranormal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kamehameha Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I played a little while with a bassist whose amp did go to 11. He was often told "hey man, please turn it down just a little" and he would do so, until people turned their backs, and then he'd turn it up even more.... Because, after all, the people in the next county can't wait to hear him.... I'm sure they were standing in line to TELL him so! Seriously, no one asked him to turn it way down, just a little. My Hot Rod Deluxe goes to 12. But that's no fun. My 150-watt bass amp goes to.....the last dot. I dunno. But I don't usually go up there. "My two Fender Basses, I just call them "Lesbos" because of the time they spend together in the closet."-Durockrolly This has been a Maisie production. (Directed in part by Spiderman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I actually found some Gibson style speed knobs once that DID go up to 11. At first glance you wondered why the numbers looked smaller and crowded and then you spotted the extra number. Cool knobs. Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geoff Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Last month, Total Guitar magazine gave away a set of 3 on the front cover that went to 11. I have them here G. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music The Geoff - blame Caevan!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Really? I found these in the odds-and-ends bin at a local music shop, and nobody knew where they'd come from. Are yours a sort of hot pink colour? Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geoff Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Two hot pink with black centres, one with a red star and the other with a lightening bolt. One black with red centre with 'TG' in the centre. ? G. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music The Geoff - blame Caevan!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Oh, they were cooler than mine then! I like the sound of the one with a red star! Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megiliel Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Awesome. The whole "eleven" thing has poisoned my mind, in a way. People mention amps, math problems, age, literally anything... and my first response is "Eleven... eleven... eleven..." www.myspace.com/donahelena Support bored teenage ghost hunters. www.myspace.com/rock_paranormal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanD Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 One thing about loud guitar is that I do loooooooove some good feedback. Slide guitar, bending feedback.... I could listen to it forever. Probably one of my all time favorite sounds, natural or produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar55 Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhVWJgIzftE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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