drastic change in setup

[Guitarzan]

well after playing 11's and using the over the top of the stop tail string feed (ala Gibbons), with fairly high action and some relief to accomodate those stainless 11's i have taken a left turn.

last night the 11's were replaced with nickel wound 9's.

after some tweaking i have settled into a medium high action with almost no relief.

the burstbuckers being a more vintage style pickup seemed too sensitive to the mass of 11's in stainless steel.

i am digging the nickel wound alot, it is less brittle and more jangly.

 

before:

11's

stainless steel wound

low angle over bridge

high action

generous relief

 

after:

9's

nickel wound

sharp angle over bridge

med action

little relief

 

it plays like butter sounds and sweeter for clean chords.

sort of like the LP has a little strat soul in it.

if that makes sense.

sometimes i feel like i have ADGSD ( attention deficit guitar setup disorder) :grin:

someday i will finally zone into a regular setup that never changes.

maybe.

[rw2003]

I've been using Gibson 9's on my Les Paul Custom for years. Came setup from the factory with them.

[Professor Monkey]

Do you have to change strings when changing from factory set strings to the super light gauge strings?09-11-16-24-32-42.

[Guitarzan]

mine came with 10's and a bad setup.

 

[Professor Monkey]

How do you tell if you have a bad setup?

[Bluesape]

How do you tell if you have a bad setup?

 

 

Ummmm......it plays like crap?

[Guitarzan]

that and the intonation was set by someone who needed new batteries in his tuner. :grin:

[Guitarzan]

Do you have to change strings when changing from factory set strings to the super light gauge strings?09-11-16-24-32-42.

 

do you mean brand of strings?

 

[Professor Monkey]

Whats crap XD

 

I meant gauge wise..Does it matter from .09 to .10.. or what? And what exactly is the perfect tone?

[Darcy H]

Bad set-up generally refers to excessive fret buzz or very high action or poor intonation, pickups too high or low, or any combination thereof. Changing gauges, or even changing brands of strings of the same gauge, can alter a perfect set-up. As far as perfect tone, it's very subjective, some prefer heavy gauges, some light....whatever works for you.

[Bluesape]

Bad set-up generally refers to excessive fret buzz or very high action or poor intonation, pickups too high or low, or any combination thereof. Changing gauges, or even changing brands of strings of the same gauge, can alter a perfect set-up. As far as perfect tone, it's very subjective, some prefer heavy gauges, some light....whatever works for you.

 

All true. I was economizing. :grin:

[Dr. Ellwood]

OK ...MY prediction is as follows for your ultimate eventual set up that in the end will never change: 10's... low/med action... standard Nickel like Fender 150's, near flat relief...DONE for ever!!! and enjoy the Les Paul experience!!!

[Guitarzan]

you are probably right Lee.

the 9's are nice but after working out with the 11's i kind of muscle them a bit.

my next string change will probably include locking tuners.

[miroslav]

...using the over the top of the stop tail string feed...

 

I've never quite understood why anyone thinks this makes any kind of difference...?

 

The termination point of the string length happens at the bridge.

How the string gets anchored at the tailpiece shouldn't have any affect on tone or action.

 

So...why/what exactly do people do this for...?

 

 

[Guitarzan]

change of angle.

it is different.

[Big Red 67]

I play 12's strung normal.

[The Geoff]

I've settled (pretty much) on 10 - 52s with a low-medium action and an almost straight neck - this is also St. Erlewine's current preference.

 

I've done all 13(!) of the necks like this and, to me, it makes playing much easier.

 

G.

[Trucks]

I change my setup more than I do my underwear :-)

[Guitarzan]

sometimes there is a screwdriver in my hand more often than a pick. :grin:

[Dr. Ellwood]

...using the over the top of the stop tail string feed...

 

I've never quite understood why anyone thinks this makes any kind of difference...?

 

The termination point of the string length happens at the bridge.

How the string gets anchored at the tailpiece shouldn't have any affect on tone or action.

 

So...why/what exactly do people do this for...?

 

 

Gotta agree!!

[miroslav]

change of angle.

it is different.

 

Yeah...OK...the angle changes from the bridge to where the string is anchored on the tailpiece...

...but that still doesn't answer my question.

 

How does THAT have ANY effect on the tone or the action...?

 

I think thats just one of those guitar myths that's managed to work it's way into a lot of guitar setups when people are looking for that "something"...and they can't quite find it.

 

I still say it will not change the tone or action in anyway...

and if you didn't see it, you would have no way of telling by the sound or the playingwhich way the strings were threaded on the tailpiece.

 

[miroslav]

And...if by chance the bridge is at about the same height as the over-the-top of the tailpiece anchor points...

...the only thing you might end up with is a guitar that doesn't hold it's tune very well, because there is not enough downward pull on the string at the bridge.

 

Maybe I'm missing some point of physics...but I just don't think there is much of any beneficial effect from going over-the-top of the tailpiece.

 

Is there anyone that has any sound scientific proof of this over-the-top of the tailpiece topic?

 

[Guitarzan]

the angle affects the feel, a lower angle will give looser feel even with 11's. it isn't night and day but it is noticable.

and it will have an effect on tone. picture a strat headstock, pull the strings out from under the trees and see if it feels and sounds the same with the lower angle over the nut.

i could have raised the stop tail up for the same angle but then it would be way off the body with less thread contact in the bushings.

 

[miroslav]

...picture a strat headstock, pull the strings out from under the trees and see if it feels and sounds the same with the lower angle over the nut.

 

I tried it. I really see no difference in the tone...though yes, bending is a pinch easier...BUT...with the string at such a shallow angle at the nut and/or bridge...you lose the solid transfer of energy into the bridge/body, which IMO is where the tone is really at.

 

I still feel that it's more gimmick than anything else.

When a luthier designs a guitar...all the angles, length and tensions are considered for optimum balance of feel and tone, and I am always hesitant to try and reinvent that in any extreme waythough to each his own.

 

[Guitarzan]

the string length behind the nut and bridge can have an affect on tone, it may not be drastic but it is there. my main goal was lowering the tension needed for bends with the 11's and i wished to keep the stop tail screwed down.

tone is a very interesting concept, to me it isn't just how big and fat the notes are. there is the sustain, timbre and clarity.

i often find high action boomy and too loud in the bass strings.

sometimes i dial out that boominess by playing around with the setup.

i agree that increased pressure can give more sustain but sometimes that is ruined by an emphasis on bass. each guitar has an accoustic voice that can be tweaked by a number of ways.

no doulbt a set of 9's set up like i previously had the LP done could (possibly) be sitar like but the 11's had more tension (plus pressure on the saddles) and needed less of an angle.

it is all dependant on the varibles.

i don't consider it a gimmick but rather an option which makes a difference depending on the other parts. starting with the guitars natural voice.

but then again i can hear a big difference in picks. i find anything less than a 3.0mm Big Stubby to be plinky in tone.

 

[miroslav]

...no doulbt a set of 9's set up like i previously had the LP done could (possibly) be sitar like but the 11's had more tension...

 

 

Why not just split the difference and got with 10's...?

 

i find anything less than a 3.0mm Big Stubby to be plinky in tone.

 

That's pretty funny!

I don't hardly ever use anything more then a 0.60!

 

I find anything thicker/stiffer kills the feel I have when Im working the strings...

...and about the only thing I can get out of a thick/stiff pick is a BIG PLUCK!...and nothing else (unless you hold it real loose...but then it's too easy to drop).

 

With the thinner/softer pick, I can hold it firmly, and still get all kinds of different releases just by how I hold it.

Short, long...slightly bent...etc....they all change the tone/fell with a thin pick.

 

IMOyou can get a thinner pick to pop along with the string.

But with a real thick pick...only the strings will pop, as the pick is too stiff to really flex much at all.

But then...that may be what some people prefer...

 

HeyI get big fat tone using the thin pickstheres no plinky tone anywhere.

 

 

[Big Red 67]

The extra angle gives a more soild tone to me as does the added string weight.

[Guitarzan]

...no doulbt a set of 9's set up like i previously had the LP done could (possibly) be sitar like but the 11's had more tension...

 

 

Why not just split the difference and got with 10's...?

 

i find anything less than a 3.0mm Big Stubby to be plinky in tone.

 

That's pretty funny!

I don't hardly ever use anything more then a 0.60!

 

I find anything thicker/stiffer kills the feel I have when Im working the strings...

...and about the only thing I can get out of a thick/stiff pick is a BIG PLUCK!...and nothing else (unless you hold it real loose...but then it's too easy to drop).

 

With the thinner/softer pick, I can hold it firmly, and still get all kinds of different releases just by how I hold it.

Short, long...slightly bent...etc....they all change the tone/fell with a thin pick.

 

IMOyou can get a thinner pick to pop along with the string.

But with a real thick pick...only the strings will pop, as the pick is too stiff to really flex much at all.

But then...that may be what some people prefer...

 

HeyI get big fat tone using the thin pickstheres no plinky tone anywhere.

 

 

after a day or two i am almost sure (99.99%) sure i will be returning to 10's in nickle wound.

the 3.0 mm Big Stubbies are curved when veiwed from the side so they glide quite easily, i tend to get snagged more often with totally flat picks.

our hands and attack is sure to be different, i do use the occasional thin pick for strummy stuff.

tweaking is a never ending tonal thing for me.

it is a curse, but also edjucational.