OT: Help With My New TV

[A String]

As most of you know, I have a new LCD TV, with a built in high Def tuner. I seem to be having a problem...

 

Every once and a while (I'd say twice a day or so), the sound drops out and is replace by a high pitched tone/buzz. This tone runs for about 5 seconds and then stops.

 

The TV is hooked up to an antenna and receives both high definition and regular stations. This tone only occurs on the standard stations, not on the high def stations. I was wondering if it could be a problem with the signal strength, messing up the sound processor.

 

This is the first high def tv I've owned, so I'm not familiar with them.

 

Do any of you guys have a high def tv and have heard of this before? Does anyone know how interference effects standard/high def tuners?

 

The company said that I can ship the tv back and they will ship me a new one, but I would be without a tv for around a month. I'm not sure how my two and a half year old would like that lol.

 

If this is just a problem with the reception, then I'd hate to ship the tv back, get a new one and have it still making that tone. Then again, if it's the processor, then I'd like to get it taken care of, while it's still under warranty.

 

So, anyone have any ideas?

[mdrs]

Wow. I can't help with the tech aspects. But, I'm amazed at how poor the quality in electronic equipment is these days. I bought my parents a flat screen TV for Christmas. It had to be sent back because when you turned it on, about 20% of the time only sound came up, no picture. They'll be without it for a month!

 

My son just got a new Alienware laptop.....the hard drive took a dump after he'd had it for less than three weeks.

 

They just don't make stuff like they used to. Even good manufacturers, like Alienware, buy parts from third world sources with apparent quality control issues.

 

I hope you get it sorted out to your satisfaction, A. Did you keep the old TV to tide you over till you get a new one???

[rw2003]

Graig,

 

Congrats on the new TV purchase. I purchased a 37" Vizio (LCD) back in Jan. Since then I've found a good forum that is focused on A/V. Here is their LCD TV section.

 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=166

 

There are lots of specific brand/model threads and some general ones as well. I suggest you search for something similar or post your question over there.

 

FWIW... I haven't experienced such a problem with my Vizio but it does have an annoying problem where on rare occassions, the audio and video are slightly out of synch. Its like watching those old Kung Fu movies when the English dubbing is off!

 

 

 

 

[Bluesape]

The symptom you describe sounds like signal to me, Craig. Are you able to try it with, say, cable or satellite, and see if it persists? It'd be nice to rule out signal before ya ship it off.

[The Geoff]

I don't suppose it's someone using a remote to open their garage?

 

I know that there are certain makes of car in Europe which won't start if they are in the vicinity of WiFi broadband signal.

 

G.

[A String]

Thanks for the link RW2003. I've posted the question over there as well.

 

Reif, Currently, the tone only occurs with two of my standard definition channels, not with the high definition channels, DVD player or VCR. This is odd because there is only one tuner and it handles both signals. I have noticed that the standard channels aren't coming in really strong, like the high def channels are. But they don't come in any worse then they did with any other tuner I've used.

 

Geoff, I'm not sure what the range is on a garage door opener, but I live on the 11th floor of an apartment. Across from me are townhouses. I'm not sure how far away the nearest garage door is, but I would assume that it's far enough to not reach me.

 

However, the idea that something else is causing this, has crossed my mind.

 

The question is, would some sort of interference, be able to confuse the audio processor so it makes that tone, but does not effect the video?

[Steevo]

Is your cellphone laying nearby? Cellphone carriers make connections to their phones on a periodic basis without it ringing. If I leave my phone laying next to my powered monitor speaker it will buzz and interfere through the speaker for about 5 seconds, once an hour or so. Just a thought... S.

[A String]

Is your cellphone laying nearby? Cellphone carriers make connections to their phones on a periodic basis without it ringing. If I leave my phone laying next to my powered monitor speaker it will buzz and interfere through the speaker for about 5 seconds, once an hour or so. Just a thought... S.

 

I don't own a cell phone, but, being in an apartment, I'm sure anyone of my neighbors might.

 

I wish I could record the sound, but it happens so infrequently, that it would be almost impossible to catch it.

 

The tone is high pitched and loud, with a buzz in it. It's maybe an octave above the "test patteren" tone tvs used to make when stations went off the air. Add a gritty buzz to that, and that's the sound it's making.

 

During this time, the actual audio turns off entirely. I'm more inclined to think that it's a failure of the sound processor that is generating the tone, then the sound of interference. I'm just not sure if the processor is crashing because it's broken, or because it's receiving a signal, that it doesn't know how to handle. The only kink in all of my wild theories is, it only happens on the standard channels. (Channels 11 and 19 to be exact.) It doesn't happen with any other channels and it doesn't happen with any other devices.

 

Man, this sucks.

[Dr. Ellwood]

sure sounds like Packets being sent.. a packet is a highly compressed "batch" of data being sent all at once or a burst of data. These are RF or Radio Frequency signals and are used by commercial and amatuer and military stations all the time and are not sent at specific intervals, so timing the duration between transmissions will do you not good at all. Also there is the possiabiliy that a pager system on your building is sending packets...hospitals communication systems use these as a hailing frequency and it "wakes up" the remote device just before data is sent (a text message etc.) before I sent that TV back I would make a report to your CCC..or Canadian Communications Commision..like our FCC Federal Comm. Commission ..I might have yours wrong CCC??? but you can find that out. ..Have them do a scan or leave a recording scanner in your apartment for a 24 hour period to capture the signal, it will also tell them the transmission frequency and who ownes it. The fact that your volume is going down tells me the front end of your audio component is being attenuated by a CLOSE and high powered transmitter, the garbbled and raw sound is buzzsaw data..Let me know what happens..and also ask anything you want and if I don't know I will find out...........LEE

[Bluesape]

If it's only happening on 2 specific channels, then I'd be ruling out the TV as the problem. Is it possible to use the tuner on a VCR?

[A String]

If it's only happening on 2 specific channels, then I'd be ruling out the TV as the problem. Is it possible to use the tuner on a VCR?

 

Because it's not happening on the digital channels, I can use my VCR's tuner for the analog channels and the TV for the digital channels.

 

I just didn't want to set it up, so I could no longer hear the problem, and then, a year later, have the sound processor blow and lose the sound from the digital channels (or worse, have it take out the video processor etc. when it goes).

 

Lee, is it possible that this TV would pick up the problem when another TV doesn't? If I put my regular 27" tv, next to this one, and the LCD makes the noise but the 27" does not, would that imply that something was wrong with the LCD or that the tuner on the 27" isn't picking it up?

 

I'm in unknown territory here because I'm not sure how having the high def tuner, effects the regular tuner section.

[Strategery]

Hey Craig, let me run this by you.

 

This is only an idea mind you.

 

I've got 5 HD LCD TV's....from the best to the lower end and different sizes too.

Also, at one time, I used to do cable and satellite installation.

 

Naturally, TV's vary from brand to brand.

If you're getting this SOUND only on your stations received by antenna..and they're not that strong...you may be losing your audio signal strength momentarily.

When that happens, a tone may be introduced by your TV as sort of a signal that you're experiencing a problem with either your audio or video.

It cuts off after 5 seconds due to a timer that mutes the sound when the signal is only a certain strength or lower.

 

I would go into the audio section of your TV manual or in the rear of it in the Trouble Shooting section.

After that, you can usually call tech support and they're pretty good about helping you out.

 

One more thing, Google up the telephone numbers to those stations and ask if they are transmitting such a tone to eliminate that possibility.

Some stations do that as sort of an audio test periodically.

 

Just an idea.

 

Randy

[A String]

My very first assumption was that it was audio interference. I was just not sure if you could have audio interference, without video interference. And also, if I could have audio interference on channels 11 and 19 and not on any of the other channels.

 

Just to clarify, it doesn't happen on the digital channels (still the same tuner), only the analog channels. After the tone stops, the tv's sound returns to normal, immediately.

 

Thanks for all the help guys. I find it very helpful to have all of this input and opinions to help me think this through. keep it coming!

[Dr. Ellwood]

If it's only happening on 2 specific channels, then I'd be ruling out the TV as the problem. Is it possible to use the tuner on a VCR?

 

Because it's not happening on the digital channels, I can use my VCR's tuner for the analog channels and the TV for the digital channels.

 

I just didn't want to set it up, so I could no longer hear the problem, and then, a year later, have the sound processor blow and lose the sound from the digital channels (or worse, have it take out the video processor etc. when it goes).

 

Lee, is it possible that this TV would pick up the problem when another TV doesn't? If I put my regular 27" tv, next to this one, and the LCD makes the noise but the 27" does not, would that imply that something was wrong with the LCD or that the tuner on the 27" isn't picking it up?

 

I'm in unknown territory here because I'm not sure how having the high def tuner, effects the regular tuner section.

 

RFI is always a tricky lot to figure out! one of the reasons is that there are as many different designs for recievers as there are TV's and more. Yes it's possiable that one brands recirever is less sensitive or more capable of rejecting unwanted emmissions than the other. The key thing here in my estimation is the volume drop! that tells me it's attenuation from high power close proximity source, like a high gain antenna near you. Like most apartment buildings nowdays there might be quite a antenna farm on your roof, leased to all kinds of services. Ask your apartment management who leases their roof site and if there have been other complaints of a similar nature. Also ask you HD TV provider if they are sending out markers to check for line continuity or pay for view status.

[Dr. Ellwood]

My very first assumption was that it was audio interference. I was just not sure if you could have audio interference, without video interference. And also, if I could have audio interference on channels 11 and 19 and not on any of the other channels.

 

Just to clarify, it doesn't happen on the digital channels (still the same tuner), only the analog channels. After the tone stops, the tv's sound returns to normal, immediately.

 

Thanks for all the help guys. I find it very helpful to have all of this input and opinions to help me think this through. keep it coming!

 

You sure can have issues on video and none on audio, they are separated by along way in the spectrum!if the transmitter antenna is close enough you will loose both audio and video. For instance when I tune my 3KW amatuer radio amplifier I can take out the entire neighborhood if I don't adjust the plate and grid current on the final power tubes, thats why we first tune into a oil bath dummy load first before we tune into the antennas. If the transmitter and amplifier are tuned correctly I can operate a 3000 watt amplifier next to a old tv with rabbit ear antennas and not put a line or sound into it.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Craig, we talked about this kind of stuff before I think and I don't remember the outcome? Was it you or some other poster? anyway if it was you, I probably said to go to radio shack and pick up some Ferrite beads. If you did wrap them around the cable at the connector as it goes into the TV console and wrap some around the mains power at the wall outlet. Notice if the sound of that interference is less.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Also take your VOM and check to see if you have any voltage standing on your ground leg of the mains power at the wall.

[A String]

Well, it didn't do it all day today. I have to wonder if it doesn't do it on weekends...Still to early to say for sure.

 

I think I will get in touch with the CRTC and see if they can set me up with a scanner. Do you know if they charge to do a 24 hour scan?

 

 

[Dr. Ellwood]

Well, it didn't do it all day today. I have to wonder if it doesn't do it on weekends...Still to early to say for sure.

 

I think I will get in touch with the CRTC and see if they can set me up with a scanner. Do you know if they charge to do a 24 hour scan?

 

 

I'm not sure Craig, but if it's like the FCC they won't. They will identify the source and give their findings to the Engineer in Charge at the offending facility and if it's not cleaned up in a certain length of time they will start to ticket them and here is LOTS of money! This of coarse assumes it's NOT your equipment that is at fault.

[A String]

Ok, rethinking the interference thing...

 

This morning, the volume got three times as loud and went all garbled and digital sounding. I could still hear the original audio, but it was very garbled. It didn't correct until I changed the channel and changed back. It's still only happening on 11 and 19. Still a chance that it's interference, or are we shifting into the area of broken?

[Dr. Ellwood]

OK..If you would not have changed the channel..how long would have that interference lasted? this is getting wierd because in most cases there is diminished volume with a high power source near by and the audio can sound like a tiny voice in the background. We might be talking broken now!! Anyway yes how long does this last? next time it does it ..don't change the channel.

[A String]

It did the tone again, only this time, it was so loud, I was afraid it was going to blow the speakers. It's still only happening on 11 and 19.

 

The tone is still only around 4 or 5 seconds, the distorted garble went on for over a minute before I got up and changed the channel to see if it would go away.

 

If it helps, with the distorted garble, I could hear the original audio. It was far away and very metallic sounding, it was overlapped with audio that was the same, only distorted to the point that you couldn't understand it and it was REALLY loud.

[Dr. Ellwood]

It's gotta be some kind of detection from a transmission source near by. Unplug it from the wall and let it reset, does have instant on so that it's never really off?

[A String]

Yes, it sits in "standby" mode when it's turned off.

 

Just so I can follow what's going on, what does unplugging it and letting it rest do?

[A String]

Wait! I have another theory to run past you.

 

When I set the TV up, I ran the auto-tune, that tunes in the channels. The antenna has been moved around and adjusted several times since then. What are the chances that I've moved it so that it's just barely getting the channel and the auto tuner is occasionally loosing the audio signal and it's being replaced by the tone? Is that even possible?

[Dr. Ellwood]

Yes possiable,on some sets it is a processor reset much like a computer and will cause it to ask if you want to do a new reconfig. On some it remembers your settings and it doesn't do any good. On your other point, IF while your set was programming channels with autotune, looking for strong local signals it might have memorized an instance of that interferance, usually they look for dialogue and not just hetrodine (static) it would have recognized some dialogue and put it in memory, some sets have a "voting system" that wants to find the strongest signal first and rates them in order from strongest to weakest. It might not be a bad idea to pull the power, do a new auto tune reset, OR programme in your local channels from the key pad.

[A String]

Ok, I rescanned the channels and it's still doing it. I tried another standard channel to be sure (I tried 29). It was fine all day. I switched it over to 11 and, when the tone occurred, it was so loud that it echoed in the apartment and hurt my ear drums (even though the TV was turned down quite a bit).

 

I then switched the TV to get it's reception from the tuner in my VCR. It's fine from there. No problems at all.

 

I'm at a loss.

[A String]

Well, I found another guy on the LCD forum, with the same problem, only his is a little worse.

 

"I have the 237H and have experienced a similar problem.

 

For me, the high pitched tone lasts longer than 5 seconds and the signal is dropped / screen is black.

 

I have experienced the problem only while watching standard channels. I currently have a splitter working so I can tune in HD and receive digital cable through coax.

 

I returned my first 237H to CompUSA only to experience the problem happen more frequently with the replacement. Anybody else having this problem?"

 

So this is either a problem with the tuner in these sets, or the tuners are extra sensitive and are picking up interference.

[Dr. Ellwood]

WOW..well there you go! it's a design fault! nothing to do but return it, replace with a different brand I guess.

[A String]

Sad thing is, it can't be returned now, it can only be replaced with the same make and model.

 

I just wish that I could be sure it was an issue with the tuner and not something shorting out.