konaboy Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Hi all Will the internet eventually be fast enough so that it will be possible for musicians around the globe to connect and jam with each other? This would be a dream come true for me. Imagine a site where you can find other musicians and join in a jam session. Each evening you could be playing different music with another group. Is this technically possible? Each musician would need a decent microphone to capture their own instrument. Headphones to hear the other musicians and themselves. Of course the latency would have to be extremely low, any delays or glitches would ruin the experience. Is there anything comparable already available today? hang out with me at woody piano shack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatnix Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I tried a site called ejamming.com. It was MIDI only and did not have a big online community at the time. I got an invitation to be a beta tester for the audio version. It looks promising, I will get my copy of the software tommorow. I will let you know my review after I have had a chance to play with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konaboy Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 Right! midi, is a good start i suppose. You don't need high bandwidth because you are sending midi control data instead of full audio. Hhowever, the timing and low latency is still critical. I can't see it working well enough at present. Sure, there may exist midi controllers for drums, guitars and wind instruments. But I can't stand the sounds of those cheezy general-midi tone modules or soundcard synths! And how are singers supposed to join in? hang out with me at woody piano shack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nightime Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Would force you to use General MIDI. I'd hate to be playing a killer piano part, and have the guy on the other end hearing it with a Koto patch. There's enough trouble getting some controllers to be low latency locally. By the time it went through the internet, it would become a jumbled mess. Nice idea, hope it works someday, but I'm not sure we're there yet. (Too bad, I'd love to jam with you guys.) "In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome. So God helped him and created woman. Now everybody's got the blues." Willie Dixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarr111111 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I think its possible with Yahoo instant messenger, I think they did it at www.musicianforums.com a while ago. Maybe it'd be laggy though, but at least multiple people could log on and take turns soloing and listening to each other play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 This is a great concept, if workable. Oh well, if not today, maybe soon. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konaboy Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 Oscar, you make a very interesting point. Ok so we can't play together at the same time because of timing problems. But taking turns to play would still be really cool. You could take turns playing 12 bar blues or standards verses Show another guy some licks. You could even give a music lesson over the internet. Some technology like Skype or Messenger could be used for the audio and then if you also had your keyboard hooked up to the PC with midi you could have an on-screen virtual keyboard showing the notes your teacher was playing. I'd love to listen to some of the jazzers on this forum play, that's for sure. Just imagine the potential. Instead of just writing about the scales to use over a dominant chord we could connect up in an audio conference and play the stuff! Awesome I'm sure everyone would benefit from these audio sessions. hang out with me at woody piano shack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 The current internet doesn't provide low enough latency to make real-time audio collaboration practical. What's needed is true "QOS" (Quality of Service). This basically means guaranteeing an application a certain amount of bandwidth, and a certain level of latency. This topic could easily be a research paper for a Ph.D candidate in computer science, so I won't even attempt to summarize it here. However, it is being actively researched by the internet engineering community, and has been for probably 10 years or so. Someday we'll have it. But don't hold your breath for it. --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 The current internet doesn't provide low enough latency to make real-time audio collaboration practical. Someday we'll have it. But don't hold your breath for it. --Dave Yeah. It looks like we'll have to continue to pack up our gear and head down to the blues jams... drink a beer or ten and talk trash about red boxes and waterfall keys with the other musos. I really hate that. I'm pretty sure all of us need to pull away from the computer and get more exercise now and then. It wasn't long ago that it didn't seem quite so easy to be so anti-social. I'm not putting down the idea of online jam sessions. I just know that if I don't get out of the house every so often I get kinda ummmmmm... [font:Comic Sans MS]weird[/font]. I haven't been out in months. "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarr111111 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 If anyone wants to see if its possible with yim, I'll be on in a few hours after work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Coury Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 http://www.ejamming.com/ "Oh yeah, I've got two hands here." (Viv Savage) "Mr. Blu... Mr. Blutarsky: Zero POINT zero." (Dean Vernon Wormer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary75 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 What about Ninjam? Audio too, used to use it lots but it was overrun with metal guitarists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Coury Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 What about Ninjam? Audio too, used to use it lots but it was overrun with metal guitarists I've never used any of these services, but I've seen ads for 2 or 3. "Oh yeah, I've got two hands here." (Viv Savage) "Mr. Blu... Mr. Blutarsky: Zero POINT zero." (Dean Vernon Wormer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Jamming online could be interesting for those so inclinded to do it. Similar to attending a concert versus watching the DVD, you have to be there in order to get the full effect. For now, my preference remains same room with the other musos, lights flickering, jokes flying, volume cranked up and grooving to the smell of burning electricity. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konaboy Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 Yeah I agree with all your comments. I'm suggesting online jamming as a complement, not a replacement for the real thing. It can be hard to find competent like-minded musicians and a place to practise in my town. hang out with me at woody piano shack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatnix Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Hi All, I just tried the Beta ejamming thing. I was only on for 15 min, but was able to jam with a bass player a little. The software is a little buggy, but once I got going it was kind of cool. The Beta test is open for any one if you want to try it - www.ejamming.com. On of there marketing people told me that there tech people will be available to talk about bugs and features next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 I I think think it's it's possible. possible. Kewl. Kewl No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I predict that in 10-15 years, workstations will have holographic jam session functionality, in which one player can "beam" himself to a pal across the nation and they can jam together to 256 simultaneous arps and 40000MB worth of ROM. So while I cannot drink a beer with buddy Tom (aka Gas) too easily these days, evision the future: I will be able to fire up my Yamaha Schmovitif XYYZ and beam myself down to NC where Tom can see me and hear me through his Kurzweil PeeeCeeeWXY429. It will be a completely wireless world in which we don't even have cables and routers in our houses any more. The keyboard workstation of the future would also give us the ability to connect to the internet at any time from any place, beaming ourselves holographically all over the planet while simultaneously jamming along with our friends and posting to the forum. By then, we'll be older and grayer, but thinking about NAMM 2020....hmmm, what will the gear of the future do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dementedchord Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 what kinda bandwidth does this ejam thing require??? i've done some anaylisis and theory lessons using yahell messenger was kinda weird but worked... "style is determined not by what you can play but what you cant...." dave brubeck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 CLONK HERE Redwood City (CA) - Electronic Arts is working on a new game with MTV and Harmonix that will include a drum kit, lead guitar, bass guitar, and a microphone. The music/rhythm game genre has seen considerable success with titles like Karaoke Revolution and Guitar Hero. EA's new game, Rock Band, will be the first to combine multiple instruments with singing. The game is slated for a PS3 and Xbox 360 release later this year. Users will be able to download new song tracks for the game through the respective console's online store. In addition, Rock Band will be able to go online and allow users to form bands with other people around the world. ===================== Eric - you da man. "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Hemenway Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 There will *NEVER* be live 'global' jam session, (barring a major breakthru in the laws of physics). Even if we get 'latency' to zero - there is a problem, it STILL takes time to get a signal (even at the speed of light), from point A to B. 186,000 mps -- a signal beamed to a satellite (23k miles up), travels a MINIMUM of 46,000 miles. That's a 1/4 second delay already. Here's the problem. If player "A" starts the piece, player "B" can join in. The 1/4 second (or more) delay doesn't matter. "B" hears "A" via the web, and hears himself live. *BUT*, player "A" cannot possibly hear player "B" **EVER**, because player "B" isn't starting to play until 1/4 second after A - and then it takes at least another 1/4 second for the signal to return. What *IS* possible, is for "A" to play, "B" to join, "C" to join and "D" to join -- and the composite can be pretty good. The limitation is that whoever starts the chain can't hear the guys joining in. Only the last guy in the chain gets to hear everything. We already have the technology to delay signals as we wish. Nothing special there. But barring backward-in-time technology, the 'leader' of the band isn't interacting with anyone. He'll just have to download the finished product when it's over. http://www.myspace.com/sandyhemenwaymusic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 There will *NEVER* be live 'global' jam session, (barring a major breakthru in the laws of physics). Ummmmmmm. Yeah. I took the text straight from the story. Don't you love how it's so ambiguous? Of course, I added the RED color just to get your attention, Sandy. And for your information, they did this all the time on STAR TREK. So that must make it true, right? http://www.fiftiesweb.com/tv/captain-kangaroo.jpg WWKKS? (What would Kaptain Kirk Say?) "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirium Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 also soon it will be possible to get pregnant over the internet... kinda jam session too, but usually called grupen s**... ♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDragonSoun Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 also soon it will be possible to get pregnant over the internet... Oh crap maybe that girl on "my special site" wasn't lying to me. :grin: Begin the day with a friendly voice A companion, unobtrusive - Rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDragonSoun Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 I did try the online jamming thing about a year ago and the whole timing thing was off. Not to mention the problem with what they were hearing on the other end. The only way I've been able to jam successfully online is to switch parts one at a time. Begin the day with a friendly voice A companion, unobtrusive - Rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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