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intonation.......ARGGGGGHHHHH


StillHere

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hey guys, trying to set my intonation and i got a jam tomorrow night. every time i get one string set, it puts it wayyy out of tune. so, i tune it back up, and its all f***** up again. i CANNOT spend any money on this getting it setup, and even if i could, i wouldnt have the time. PLEASE HELP ME!!! thanks.
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dont you know what intonation is? its to make the guitar in tune all the way in tune up and down on the neck, everywhere. also, its a BC rich warlock. you have to know what intonation is, i mean, come on.

 

No, dude.

 

I am asking what YOU mean by "intonation" because, for all I know, you may be doing something else and mistakenly calling it intonation.

 

And you still haven't answered the question. What are you doing, precisely?

 

 

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Without getting into the full, step by step...

 

Basically, you check the intonation to see if it's sharp or flat and you gauge, roughly, how much it's out. Then, you detune the string and make the adjustment. Next, you tune the string back up and check the intonation again. If it's still not quite in, you repeat the process until it is.

 

They are very small adjustments, so make sure you don't go past it.

 

Also, be sure you have a fresh set of strings on it, before you change anything. An old set of strings will throw the intonation out. Putting on a fresh set of strings will return the intonation to where it was. If you change the intonation with an old set of strings, the next time you change the strings, it will need to be reset.

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Intonation is the last thing to do in the setup sequence. If you have a floating trem, that has to be balanced for the string guage you are using before you do anything else. Also, string height and neck relief need to be correct first. You have to tune up to pitch before each and every step you perform. When you get to setting intonation, you will take one string at a time, and you will make a very small adjustment, then tune all strings back up to pitch. What you are actually doing is changing the length of the string, thus the relative position of the exact center of the string over the fretboard so that the fundamental pitch of the open string, it's fretted octave, and natural harmonic octave are all in unison. When you change the length of the string by adjusting the bridge saddle for that string forward or backward, you change the tension on the string which obviously changes it's pitch. It also affects the tuning of all of the other strings by either increasing or reducing the overall tension on a floating trem. Thus, after each small adjustment, you need to tune all strings up to pitch and check the intonation again. It's a slow, painstaking process the first few times you do it, then you develop a "feel" for it and it goes much quicker because you are better able to estimate how much the saddle needs to be moved, so you don't have to move it as many times before you get it right.

"And so I definitely, when I have a daughter, I have a lot of good advice for her."

~Paris Hilton

 

BWAAAHAAAHAAHAAA!!!

 

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Yep, sounds like he has a floating trem...which would cause that.

 

Yeti is correct...and...you shoulda thought about this a while back. ;) :grin:

 

It's not as hard as it sounds.

Yes, you have to retune after every string tension change. That's just the nature of the beast.

 

Just tune it to 440, which is normal...and go through each string.

 

Hit the string open then chime it at the 12th fret. Once you have both open note and 12th fret chime in tune, you've got it on that string.

Simply retune and go to the next string.

 

Also, what brand of guitar do you have?

 

Hang in there and just be patient.

 

Randy

 

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/intonate.htm

"Just play!"
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Sounds to me like he's botched it up royally already. Probably won't be right again until a pro gets their hands on it. :(

 

Sorry StillHere. The likelyhood is you will have to pay for a professional setup, and it won't be cheap as setups go because you've probably made more work than normal for the tech. Otherwise, it will take more time than normal.

 

How come I get the feeling, guys, that StillHere ain't? ;) I think his reply to Vince indicates he thinks we're ignorant and not the other way around. ;)

 

Jokes aside I hope you are StillHere. Ignorance doesn't make you an idiot. You'll learn from this mistake and I hope someone here can help. If not, you'll learn with your wallet. Good luck!

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman

 

Soundclick

fntstcsnd

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first of all, you need to check your math, becuase HE was the one to say to me, "What do you mean?" I said it plain and simple. INTONATION. Also, its not a floating trem, in fact there is NO trem on it at all, its a wrap-over. and you call ME ignorant? Ha.
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first of all, you need to check your math, becuase HE was the one to say to me, "What do you mean?" I said it plain and simple. INTONATION. Also, its not a floating trem, in fact there is NO trem on it at all, its a wrap-over. and you call ME ignorant? Ha.

 

Hang on. All he did what make sure you were both talking about the same thing. We get new guys here that aren't sure what they are doing. They'll say they are setting the intonation, but in reality, they are raising the action, etc. Vince was just making sure you were both on the same page.

 

Now, you got some good responses here. They were asking if you had a floating trem, because that changes the set up's difficulty level.

 

No need to blow a gasket. Folks are just trying to help you out.

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make sure you stretch the strings well before tuning.

when checking the intonation you need to have the guitar tuned to pitch, when adjusting saddles detune the string and then move the saddle. then retune and check.

it can be a slow process depending on the bridge.

i only asked about a floyd because you mentioned it going out of whack when you tuned up.

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first of all, you need to check your math, becuase HE was the one to say to me, "What do you mean?" I said it plain and simple. INTONATION. Also, its not a floating trem, in fact there is NO trem on it at all, its a wrap-over. and you call ME ignorant? Ha.

 

As several have pointed out, we see a lot of newbies who mistake one concept for another, and intonation is one of the most misunderstood concepts when you move from theory to practical application.

 

I didn't say you were ignorant. Vince was simply making sure you weren't.

 

To the point, give us some pics of the tailpiece/bridge assembly. I'm not sure what you mean about it being a "wrap over" The only guitars I've ever seen with a true wrap over were Gibbie's with no intonation adjustment. Do you mean it has a Tune-o-matic style bridge with a wrap around tailpiece?

 

If so, it shouldn't force other strings out of tune when you intonate one saddle.

 

If it is, indeed, a fixed bridge then you probably have some major problems based on what you've described so far.

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman

 

Soundclick

fntstcsnd

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some things that can f'k up your ablity to play in tune:

 

loose neck bolts (bolt on)

pickups too high

crappy strings that should have been changed years ago

cheap tuners

tight nut slots

kinks in the string

and of course intonation

intonation needs to be checked in the playing position, don't lay the guitar down and check it.

don't check the intonation until you really have the strings settled and they stay in tune.

when checking one string make sure the others are at pitch. this way ensures the tension of the neck is the same as it will be when playing.

i was raised by apes but i aint ignint :grin:

 

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Yep, as the guys have pointed out, I was just trying to make sure we were all on the same page. You might call it "intonation" but I have no way of knowing whether your idea of intonation is the same as mine, or anybody else's. No point wasting everybody's time if we are talking about different things, is there? First rule of any support desk is to get a good handle on what's really happening. May as well do the same here. :)

 

As it is, your description of the situation

 

every time i get one string set, it puts it wayyy out of tune. so, i tune it back up, and its all f***** up again.

sounds unusual enough to make me wonder how exactly you are going about setting your intonation.

 

For example, if you are moving the bridge saddles, you are obviously going to change the string's tuning. And yet that seems to surprise you. Or does it? And what exactly does "and its all f***** up again" mean, really? "f***** up" in which sense? Do the saddles move back to the original position? Are the strings out of tune with each other? Does the neck fly off the body? ;) What do you mean, precisely?

 

So yeah, could you explain how you are setting up the intonation? Some pictures of the bridge would be handy too.

 

And the outbursts? Save them for some dude you are paying.

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OK...let's get back to basics.

 

How about this?

 

Did you put enough windings on your string tuners?

I mean you aren't getting any slippage are you?

 

Also, like another person said....have you stretched your strings out by pulling them straight up from your pickups with a little tension?

 

If you have a non tremolo bridge...this shouldn't be happening.

 

WHen you hit your open string that is in tune, then adjust your saddle to adjust your intonation on the 12th fret, it will put you back out of tune.

It should only be real easy to tune that string back up and recheck the 12 again.

 

With your guitar having a solid bridge...this should be a piece of cake.

 

Randy

"Just play!"
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what i meant was this: I will get one sring intonated and then it goes out of tune. (duh). so i tune it back up, and the string needs to be intonated again.

 

To be honest your description of the problem has been unclear and you jumped on people when they asked legitimate questions trying to help you out. I still don't understand what the guitar problem is. You say you "get one string intonated and then it goes ot of tune". At what fret does it go out of tune or does the whole string go out of tune even in the open position? If it is the whole string going out of tune it is not an intonation problem, it is a crappy Warlock problem. (Ellwood, loved your comment. We're often on the same wavelength.)

 

People here are very knowledgeable and likeable. Try not coming in acting like an a$$hole next time.

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