Power supply........

[Moonfish]

How many pedals can I plug with a Boss 200 mA power supply???..............I've got 5 pedals: a Tuner,a Tremolo,DD6 Delay,Tubescreamer ts9,ProcoRat. Is it dangerous?.....maybe work better a higher mA power supply? .....

 

[subject x]

I'd recommend getting yourself a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power unit. All the power you'll ever need (within reason)

and multiple options of what kind of power.

 

That will ease your worries.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

I don't think it'd be dangerous.

 

If the pedals don't receive enough power then they just won't work. What Boss adapter are you referring to? Is it the red one that looks like a pedal? I have a One Spot and haven't seen the Boss one for years.

[revolead]

Kramer, he is talking about the 9v 200ma PSA-20 adapter, which coupled with the Tuner is supposed to be able to power about nine or ten 9v devices, Boss made or not. The red pedal-looking thing you're referring to hasn't been made in years and has nothing to do with his setup. Though, they were intriguing.

 

Anyway, running less than required voltage or amperage into a device will never be dangerous or hurt anything. It will simply not work.

 

Running more than required current (amperage) is not really a problem either. The device will only draw as much power as is needed, no more, no less.

 

Running too much voltage into a device is a huge problem. It is not necessarily dangerous (unless you're talking high-voltage devices), but it will fry your electronics.

 

Think of it like water. Current is the water stored in a reservoir. You can put all the water you want in there, but unless it has a pressurized outlet, it isn't going anywhere. Voltage is like pressure. There's a huge difference between a water pistol and a fire hydrant. Which would you rather be soaked with? You're electronics feel the same way.

 

Oh yeah, and I should add that despite, all of this, I would not get a higher-current (mA) power adapter. That will not accomplish anything. The adapter will still only power as many pedals as it can, since eventually, the power will simply run out and not be able to give anymore juice. The voltage is what determines how many devices can be run at once, not the amperage. Again, DO NOT get a higher voltage adapter to cure this either. If you're unhappy with the performance of a pedal because you think it is underpowered, you'll just have to run batteries or extra adapters in each pedal. Of course, the power supplies recommended are a good idea too, but not really necessary unless you want to be a true tone snob (which many of us are :grin: ).

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

The red pedal-looking thing you're referring to hasn't been made in years and has nothing to do with his setup. Though, they were intriguing.

 

LOL!

 

Ohhhhh... so THAT's why I haven't seen one in donkey's years.

 

 

[revolead]

Just for you, Kramer. :grin:

 

Boss PSM-5

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Just for you, Kramer. :grin:

 

Awwwwww... But yeah, that's the one. They cost a mint, too... IIRC.

[revolead]

Well, a Boss pedal that costs a mint (in all fairness, it sounds amazing if used correctly) is one of these. They go for more than 150 bucks often on Ebay, and they only make 4 sounds!

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Hadn't ever seen that pedal.

 

But hey, that's a really cool site!

[revolead]

That it is. That pedal I found on Ebay once and did some research on it. I just remembered it because of that site.

[fantasticsound]

Whoa, Revo!! You've got a few things wrong that can be deadly to his electronics.

 

Kramer, he is talking about the 9v 200ma PSA-20 adapter, which coupled with the Tuner is supposed to be able to power about nine or ten 9v devices, Boss made or not. The red pedal-looking thing you're referring to hasn't been made in years and has nothing to do with his setup. Though, they were intriguing.

 

A 200ma power supply is grossly underpowered for more than one or possibly two pedals, depending on their current draw. Many pedals and certainly even small keyboards that run off 9v power supplies will require more than 200ma.

 

Anyway, running less than required voltage or amperage into a device will never be dangerous or hurt anything. It will simply not work.

 

Absolutely false! Running low voltage is extremely hazardous to your gear. You can easily ruin a pedal by hooking it to a 6v power adapter. It won't go up in blaze of glory, but in a short time will be ruined nonetheless.

 

Running more than required current (amperage) is not really a problem either. The device will only draw as much power as is needed, no more, no less.

 

That is true.

 

Running too much voltage into a device is a huge problem. It is not necessarily dangerous (unless you're talking high-voltage devices), but it will fry your electronics.

 

Also true, although a few volts over (for example, a 10v or even a 12v supply) will generally not destroy your pedals. I would still NOT recommend using any power supply that doesn't give the recommended voltage and at least enough current flow.

 

Think of it like water. Current is the water stored in a reservoir. You can put all the water you want in there, but unless it has a pressurized outlet, it isn't going anywhere.

 

Right analogy, absolutely wrong explanation of current. Current is a measure of flow. A closed tank does not flow. Current, as with water, is the kinetic energy measure of voltage (pressure, as you correctly idenfity next) interacting with impedance or resistance, which in the analogy is represented by the volume and dimensions of the water pipes.

 

Oh yeah, and I should add that despite, all of this, I would not get a higher-current (mA) power adapter. That will not accomplish anything. The adapter will still only power as many pedals as it can, since eventually, the power will simply run out and not be able to give anymore juice. The voltage is what determines how many devices can be run at once, not the amperage. Again, DO NOT get a higher voltage adapter to cure this either. If you're unhappy with the performance of a pedal because you think it is underpowered, you'll just have to run batteries or extra adapters in each pedal. Of course, the power supplies recommended are a good idea too, but not really necessary unless you want to be a true tone snob (which many of us are :grin: ).

 

No, no, no!!! You have it completely backwards! It is amperage that determines how many devices of a given voltage can be powered by the supply! Be very careful about giving electrical advice. It can be devastating to someone's gear when you offer incorrect information and possibly dangerous to their life and limb.

 

Moonfish, two other extremely important issues when using a single power supply for multiple devices are: 1. You MUST be sure the outlet wires are presenting the correct polarity. Various manufacturers do NOT use a standard polarity. 2. Some digital devices require 9VAC power. They use the 60 cycle/sec alternating current as a clock pulse. A standard AC to DC adapter will not power those devices. Alesis is well known for using AC to AC adapters, as are several other gear manufacturers.

 

Be very careful that you adhere to the correct voltage, have at least enough current, correct polarity and that one or more of your devices do not require AC to AC adapters before powering up using any power supply.

[revolead]

Okay, Neil. I'll take your word for it. I'm used to working with normal types of stuff not as much so with audio equipment, plus it's been awhile since I took an electronics-oriented course. Thanks for the clarification. I was hoping someone would know more than I, anyway.

 

Though, I am curious, why does low voltage ruin your devices? Wouldn't it simply just not work?

[revolead]

A 200ma power supply is grossly underpowered for more than one or possibly two pedals, depending on their current draw. Many pedals and certainly even small keyboards that run off 9v power supplies will require more than 200ma.

 

As far as I know, this statement is still false. The Boss PSA-20, when used in conjunction with the TU-2 tuner pedal, is supposed to be able to power several devices. I've got my stuff hooked up like that and it works just fine. If you know differently as to why, then by all means, do share. But I know my stuff is not underpowered or anything. It all works and sounds fine.

[Chad Thorne]

I'd recommend getting yourself a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power unit. All the power you'll ever need (within reason)

and multiple options of what kind of power.

 

That will ease your worries.

 

Very nice. Still, at $170, plus another $155 add-on if I want to run my tube distortion unit - that's $325. Why would I not be just as well off running my 4 pedals off a power strip?

[fantasticsound]

Revo, a 200ma supply will power your tuner and one other effect, and depending on the effect, may power more without issue. But in the past 10 - 20 years more and more companies are building effects and keyboards that use outboard AC/DC or AC/AC power supplies that require more than 500ma just for one device. In fact, I was surprised to find the PSA you described won't even light up many keyboards.

 

As to why low voltage is so harmful to electronics... Frankly, I can't say. I'm not an electronics tech. I'm just knowledgeable enough to be dangerous. (To be fair, I'm just a bit more knowledgeable than that.. enough to be cautious. )

 

But rest assured, using a too-low voltage power supply will do to your electronics what brown-out on the power grid will do to them.. namely ruin them.

[miroslav]

Okay, Neil. I'll take your word for it.

 

 

Neil is right.

 

With wall-wartsit is important that it's output voltage matches what the device needs...and that it's amperage is equal to or greater. You do not want the voltage higher than needed.

 

As far as constant low/under voltage, the way I understand it...

...it can cause higher current, overheating and thermal damage to components.

 

[fantasticsound]

That sounds right from my limited knowledge of Ohms law, Miro.

 

From what I was able to glean online earlier, low voltage will not kill your gear quickly as with over-voltage/current. But it will be more widespread. That sounds logical for heat damage. It would take longer but most all components would be affected.

 

In many cases of massive overload, a single component can fry, sometimes protecting the rest of the device. In fact, this is the theory behind using fuses to protect gear from short circuits and other overloads. But fuses will not protect your gear from low voltage damage.

[revolead]

Revo, a 200ma supply will power your tuner and one other effect, and depending on the effect, may power more without issue. But in the past 10 - 20 years more and more companies are building effects and keyboards that use outboard AC/DC or AC/AC power supplies that require more than 500ma just for one device. In fact, I was surprised to find the PSA you described won't even light up many keyboards.

 

While I'm not disagreeing with you totally, I will say that it is possible to power as many effects as needed, so long as the current is under 200mA (according to my owner's manual). However, as I said, I have 4 pedals hooked up to the TU-2 through that jack and everything seems to run just fine. When I added another pedal on today (I took off a Visual Sound H20 and put on a Jekkyl and Hyde OD that I'm trying to get work), the other effects did not work at all, so obviously, there is some sort of a limit. Either the Jekkyl and Hyde was drawing too much power or the pedal was just plain broken (I fixed it once, and I do not think it broke again, but it looks like to me it needs more than 200mA. Any thoughts?)

 

EDIT: Okay, so the pedal still works on a 9V battery. Must be a current issue. I should probably jut suck it up and buy one of those One Spots. It's all good though. I love supporting pedal manufacturers, especially since the folks at Visual Sound have been so nice to me.

 

Having said that, do you think I should get an adapter with more current (say, around 500mA) to make sure everything has enough juice? Or is the setup I have (the TU-2 and 4 pedals, all of which seem to have plenty of power) working just fine?

 

Thanks for the help, BTW, Neil and Miro. It is nice to have someone who knows more about electricity than I.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Yeah, thanks guys!

 

E chiedo tante scuse a Moonfish, per il ns. sbaglio.

[bennyguitfiddle]

power is 1:1 ratio (if a light bulb is 40 watts its 40 watts)

10 volts x 4 amps = 40 watts

20 volts x 2 amps = 40 watts

the lower the voltage the higher the amps

high amps burn things up

 

if your power supply is the right voltage but not enough amps

then your pedal won't work or you'll burn up the power supply

not the pedal

[fantasticsound]

Your best bet, Revo, would be to see if your pedals have their power requirements printed on them somewhere, or check out specs online, perhaps. Once you know the rated power requirements you can decide whether to stick with the current (No pun intended!) setup or add a OneSpot, Voodoo Power, etc. power supply that can power everything you have.

 

I just called Visual Sound (because I saw pics of the back which did not provide current specs) and a gentleman answered. (Really! Tollfree call and no automated messages!) He said the H2O pulls about 70ma on its own. That's probably why you can't add it to your existing setup. Too much draw on the PSA. Also, although I know you can get the polarity from a drawing next to the power supply jack, he confirmed that Visual Sound conforms to the near standard of "center -" provided by the PSA. If the H2O is in proper working order it should run alone, possibly with one or more other low current devices, on the PSA.

 

Thanks Benny for the refresher. That does, indeed, explain why components would face excessive heat with an under-voltage supply.

[revolead]

Hmm...Well, the H2O seems to be okay. It was the Jekkyl and Hyde that draws a lot of current. Either way, I'm just gonna replace it today with a 1 Spot. I'd rather be safe than sorry, especially because I have some other boutique pedals on the circuit that I would be very upset if something happened to them.

[fantasticsound]

The One Spot should solve the issue. 1 amp is plenty for a bunch of pedals.

[revolead]

Got it, and everything seems to work about the same, but the Jekkyl and Hyde definitely works now, even with the other pedals.