Clifton Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 I'm looking to buy a waterfall action controller now that I'm getting into organ alot more (thanks mostly to the good advice from you all!), and I have to ask a pretty silly, but altogether necessary question... Do waterfall actions support velocity? Or perhaps even aftertouch?It'd be nice to do trigger clav, synths, strings etc with a nice springy waterfall action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Sure do. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 Ah, good then . Silly question I know, but one must be sure. How about 61-key vs. 73? Is playing organ with 73 just not right? Playing organ with 88 certainly doesn't feel right. I spose having the room to split couldn't hurt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keysplease Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 IMO, having too many keys is not a problem. The problems come when you're trying to play piano with 61 keys, and the tunes you play require 88. Playing organ with 88, as you say, may not feel right because of weighted keys -- it's like walking in 3 feet of snow wearing lead boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3_john Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 It really depends IMO on what you are used to. The first Hammond I played had two 44-key manuals, for a while 61 keys felt like cheating. You can't play certain techniques with a weighted keyboard quite the same way you'd play them on a proper organ keyboard, but if you don't have the previous experience then it may not matter to you, the same with 61 vs 88 keys. Besides weighted keys, the thing I would notice would be the foldback, where the pitches for certain drawbars at the top/bottom of the manual will go back to a previous octave instead of continuing up or down in pitch. Again, if you aren't coming from actual experience with a Hammond it really may not matter to you. One last thing, back to your original post. A good organ keyboard will have "fast triggering" (i.e. trigger toward the top of a key press). Synths and digital pianos will trigger at the bottom of a key press. So playing piano sounds from an organ keyboard may or may not have "touch" or "feel" issues for you. Something to think about. This is the reason lots of guys have a weighted keyboard for the lower manual and an organ keyboard for the upper manual. Not my preference, but it seems to be how most guys want to approach this. John GP sacred cow of the year: Jimmy Vaughan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 One last thing, back to your original post. A good organ keyboard will have "fast triggering" (i.e. trigger toward the top of a key press). Synths and digital pianos will trigger at the bottom of a key press. So playing piano sounds from an organ keyboard may or may not have "touch" or "feel" issues for you. Something to think about. This is the reason lots of guys have a weighted keyboard for the lower manual and an organ keyboard for the upper manual. Not my preference, but it seems to be how most guys want to approach this. John I was thinking exactly that. Piano on an unweighted board is just plain crazy talk to me. And organ on a weighted board is just far more difficult to play. So organ/clav/synths/etc on the top, piano/rhodes/wurli/strings/anything chordy on the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I was thinking exactly that. Piano on an unweighted board is just plain crazy talk to me. And organ on a weighted board is just far more difficult to play. So organ/clav/synths/etc on the top, piano/rhodes/wurli/strings/anything chordy on the bottom. Be careful with that blanket generalization. Many folks play piano sounds on 61, 76 and 88 note boards. Same goes for other sounds too. It really comes down to the action that feels right underneath your fingers and the number of boards you are willing to tote. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosby777 Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 New to organ playing and looking to buy a single keyboard Hammond or Hammond type. Any tips? What is a waterfall action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trill Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 New to organ playing and looking to buy a single keyboard Hammond or Hammond type. Any tips? What is a waterfall action? The waterfall describes the keys and thier lipless construction.However the action is lighter than a fully wieghted key and faster Here is a pic Eric posted in a previous thread http://mywebpages.comcast.net/eslawson/no_lip_1.JPG http://mywebpages.comcast.net/eslawson/no_lip_3.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted April 4, 2007 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 Be careful with that blanket generalization. Many folks play piano sounds on 61, 76 and 88 note boards. Same goes for other sounds too. It really comes down to the action that feels right underneath your fingers and the number of boards you are willing to tote. I am well aware people do this, all I'm saying is I can't understand how they can do it. I learnt to play piano on a weighted action, why would I want to make things more difficult for myself by playing a action that responds totally differently? And doesn't have all the keys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3_john Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Be careful with that blanket generalization. Many folks play piano sounds on 61, 76 and 88 note boards. Same goes for other sounds too. It really comes down to the action that feels right underneath your fingers and the number of boards you are willing to tote. I am well aware people do this, all I'm saying is I can't understand how they can do it. I learnt to play piano on a weighted action, why would I want to make things more difficult for myself by playing a action that responds totally differently? And doesn't have all the keys? Clifton, if you don't mind hauling around a bunch of keyboards and taking up a bunch of stage real estate with them, then by all means. A lot of us have decided there have to be trade offs, esp. when hauling gear. I, for one, am more than willing to make do with piano noises from an un-weighted or semi-weighted keyboard if that means I have one less board to manage and that I can still have a pair of waterfall keyboards. Then again, I'm not playing any classical pieces either. Weighted keyboards are great where they are needed like jazz, classical, piano ballads, etc., and I certainly think they are mandatory for someone learning piano, but the kind of music I play doesn't require a separate keyboard just for a handful of numbers where piano-type noises are required. As always, YMMV. John GP sacred cow of the year: Jimmy Vaughan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted April 5, 2007 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 Clifton, if you don't mind hauling around a bunch of keyboards and taking up a bunch of stage real estate with them, then by all means. A lot of us have decided there have to be trade offs, esp. when hauling gear. I, for one, am more than willing to make do with piano noises from an un-weighted or semi-weighted keyboard if that means I have one less board to manage and that I can still have a pair of waterfall keyboards. Then again, I'm not playing any classical pieces either. Weighted keyboards are great where they are needed like jazz, classical, piano ballads, etc., and I certainly think they are mandatory for someone learning piano, but the kind of music I play doesn't require a separate keyboard just for a handful of numbers where piano-type noises are required. As always, YMMV. John Point taken. I was talking in terms of the inherent difficulties involved with playing piano on a non-piano feel board, simply because the dynamics become much harder to control (I find), as well as the annoyance involved when you just don't have enough keys! That said, it's also much easier to play fast on a light action, but that would be cheating . I'll take a wild guess that you are an organist, hence the waterfall action is where you thrive, and so the logistical inconvenience of a weighted board is just not justified. I can see your point. Me being a pianist first & foremost, I'm quite a stickler about the whole weighted board thing, mostly because I find it so hard to play differently. As a result, at this point in my life, I see going to the trouble of carting around 88 weighted keys as worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3_john Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Reformed pianist (by training), converted organist (by choice). John GP sacred cow of the year: Jimmy Vaughan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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