Yamaha Motif XS Mini-Review

[b3keys]

Ok! I got to check out the Motif XS7 today. In a word: WOW! This board is very impressive.

 

Sounds: Piano - new Full Grand Piano sound is beautiful and simply blows the ES8 stock piano away. Rich sound, full sustain and the keynote off feature adds a dynamic realism.

 

EPs - wide assortment of Rhodes, DX Rhodes and Wurlies. Some new patches as well as some favorites from the prior versions.

 

Yammy has incorporated an Effects module similar to the Fantom X SRX-12 EP effects mode where you use the controls knobs to change the effects. Very cool. The effects range from classic phasers, chorus, delays, amps, wahs, etc.

 

Strings - very thick and cool. Vibrato can be applied or disabled with a touch of a button live.

 

Organs - some classic jazz, pipe organ and Jon Lord Purple sounds were available. The additional sliders can be used as drawbars. Leslie sim is somewhat improved, but nowhere near Nord Electro or Hammond XK-1 levels. Very adequate though.

 

Beautiful nylon guitars, crunchy overdriven guitars and some cool Korg Wavestation like patches, too.

 

No breath controller input, but the sax,horns, violins and flute sounds can be played legato style, where you don't hear the attack each time a key is pressed. The filters are like silk.

 

Keybed - much improved over the ES7. The piano sounded like it was being played from a weighted board even though it wasn't.

 

Color screen is nice although the font size of the names is very small when scrolling through various sounds and performances. The board appears to be slightly more compact than the ES7 and the color scheme is actually very easy on the eyes.

 

The XS series begins shipping on Wednesday, so you should start seeing them in stores soon.

 

Will I buy one? Although it is very nice and there have been many improvements over the original Motif and ES series, I will probably pass. It is a great board, but the cost is a bit steep for me.

[SilverDragonSoun]

Will I buy one? Although it is very nice and there have been many improvements over the original Motif and ES series, I will probably pass. It is a great board, but the cost is a bit steep for me.

 

Thanks b3keys for the mini review. Like you the price was a bit steep for me. I was able to secure another keyboard for much cheaper than normal because of this and the new Korg workstation coming out. This will be priced out of my range as well but the fact it opened up other doors was a very nice surprise and good thing for me.

[Martin Hines]

Keybed - much improved over the ES7. The piano sounded like it was being played from a weighted board even though it wasn't.

According to a Yamaha U.S. post over at Motifator, the primary difference between the FS action (on Motif ES6/7) and the FSX action (on Motif XS6/7 and Tyros 2) is the FSX is more "environmentally friendly".

 

I think Yamaha was pretty happy with their FS action (since they had it for 20 years and is probably the de facto "synth action" standard), so I'm not sure they intended to change the feel much.

 

Did you play an ES6/7 during the same demo session to see how different it is?

[cnegrad]

I may step up to the XS if the new piano sound satisfies me. The new GUI may motivate me to switch as well...

[jook]

Sounds: Piano - new Full Grand Piano sound is beautiful and simply blows the ES8 stock piano away. Rich sound, full sustain and the keynote off feature adds a dynamic realism.

 

Shall be interesting to compare again when Kawai comes out with their upgraded sound in the new MP5, which also reportedly features key off sampling, as well as string resonance and damper effect...

[burningbusch]

Keybed - much improved over the ES7. The piano sounded like it was being played from a weighted board even though it wasn't.

According to a Yamaha U.S. post over at Motifator, the primary difference between the FS action (on Motif ES6/7) and the FSX action (on Motif XS6/7 and Tyros 2) is the FSX is more "environmentally friendly".

 

I think Yamaha was pretty happy with their FS action (since they had it for 20 years and is probably the de facto "synth action" standard), so I'm not sure they intended to change the feel much.

 

Did you play an ES6/7 during the same demo session to see how different it is?

 

The FS action might be the de facto synth action but I much prefer the silky action found on the newer Rolands (V-Synth, X6/7). The FSX action feels very much like the Roland though the keys are slightly longer and fit better under my hands. Yes I own the FSX action--Tyros 2.

 

Busch.

[burningbusch]

Sounds: Piano - new Full Grand Piano sound is beautiful and simply blows the ES8 stock piano away. Rich sound, full sustain and the keynote off feature adds a dynamic realism.

 

Shall be interesting to compare again when Kawai comes out with their upgraded sound in the new MP5, which also reportedly features key off sampling, as well as string resonance and damper effect...

 

What I enjoyed most about the new piano when I played it a NAMM is that the upper octave notes jump out nicely when accented. Great for jazz. The overall tone is excellent and unlike so many previous Yamaha digitals the piano appears to be recorded with room ambience. The Kawai piano sound is going to have to improve by leaps and bounds for me to get excited about it (not a fan).

 

Busch.

[skykeys]

I'm wondering if the new XS ac. piano sample is the same one that is in the S90ES? When the S90ES came out, it had an improved ac. piano over both the Motif and the previous S90, with 53 MB of sample memory.

 

Does anybody know? It could be the same sample with some tweaked settings?

 

Thanks,

Sky

[burningbusch]

I'm wondering if the new XS ac. piano sample is the same one that is in the S90ES? When the S90ES came out, it had an improved ac. piano over both the Motif and the previous S90, with 53 MB of sample memory.

 

Does anybody know? It could be the same sample with some tweaked settings?

 

Thanks,

Sky

 

No I don't think so. The main piano sample from the S90ES is from a Yamaha S700 Grand. From reading the online documentation, the multisamples of the main piano on the XS are labeled CF3....., we leads me to conclude they are based on the Yamaha CFIII Grand. I own the original S90 and did have a Motif ES8 for a while, so I'm familiar with both the S700 and CFIII samples Yamaha has used in the past. The S90ES supposedly has new samples vs. the orignal S90, but they sounded fairly similar to me in overall tone. The thing about Yamaha digitals in the past is that most seemed to be recorded in an anechoic chamber--no room ambience. The new XS piano appears to be ambient. To my ear, that make it more realistic.

 

Busch.

[NoahZark]

b3keys:

 

Thanks for the review.

 

Noah

[skykeys]

 

 

No I don't think so. The main piano sample from the S90ES is from a Yamaha S700 Grand. From reading the online documentation, the multisamples of the main piano on the XS are labeled CF3....., we leads me to conclude they are based on the Yamaha CFIII Grand. I own the original S90 and did have a Motif ES8 for a while, so I'm familiar with both the S700 and CFIII samples Yamaha has used in the past. The S90ES supposedly has new samples vs. the orignal S90, but they sounded fairly similar to me in overall tone. The thing about Yamaha digitals in the past is that most seemed to be recorded in an anechoic chamber--no room ambience. The new XS piano appears to be ambient. To my ear, that make it more realistic.

 

Busch.

 

Hi, Busch. Thanks for your comment. Just so I understand, are you saying that the new XS piano has room ambience in the actual sample, so with all effects turned off - there is still some ambient reverb? Did you play it with all effects turned off? I would assume that other (older) ac. piano samples contained on the XS would not have that characteristic, unless every sample is brand new.

 

Does Yamaha list the amount of memory dedicated to this new XS ac. piano sample?

 

Thanks.

[cnegrad]

Or is he referring to the new sympathetic resonance feature (which is customizable)?

[burningbusch]

The only piano listed in the waveform list is the CF3 in both stretched and flat tuning. The older piano samples are gone. The ambience just gives you a sense that the instrument is in a room. It's not a long reverb tail. You still probably would want some reverb on the patch, just not as much as on the older samples which are bone dry. There is no listing as to the size of the new piano sample.

 

From Yamaha's marketing of the XS: "Among the standout Voices is a resonant, meticulously recorded concert grand piano sound that is practically worth the price of admission by itself. "

 

resonant = ambience.

 

Busch.

[cnegrad]

Yes, but the differentiation that we're trying to make is between the reverb of the room (which hopefully is NOT part of the sample), and the sympathetic resonance which takes place inside the piano (and possibly in very close proximity on the outside).

[burningbusch]

You can sample notes with the pedal down which then picks up sympathetic string and body resonance. Some library developers have done this for all samples, even those intended to be used as pedal up samples. It gives the instrument an overall rich sound, but it's not realisitc. This is not the norm and I doubt that Yamaha has done this. If you record a note with the sustain pedal up, you are not going to get sympathetic string resonance with the exception of the undampered upper notes.

 

In looking at the waveform list there is no listing for pedal down samples. Just normal samples (at three velocities) and key off. There is a damper resonance FX. BTW, I though the ES also included a damper resonance FX.

 

If you record in a studio, even one with tightly controlled acoustics, you will still have some resonance. An anechoic chamber is devoid of reflections. It has been my contention that at least some of the previous Yamaha piano samples have been done this way because once you remove the reverb they are so dry they sound unnatural.

 

All major piano libaries (Ivory, Akoustik Piano, etc.) have some ambience. Maybe early reflections is the more accurate term, don't know. If you play them without reverb you will not hear a reverb tail from the recording. They will sound dry. But it is a different sound than the anechoic chamber. Put it this way. If there is some ambience/resonance in the original sample it will sound perfectly acceptable and lifelike without artifical reverb applied.

 

Bottomline, to my ear the new samples sound significantly better than previous Motif versions, but I am more excited about their responsiveness than any tonal improvements.

 

Busch.

[JohnH]

As Busch said, the new XS piano is the CIII, not the 700 used on the S90ES. There are new soundboard and keyoff samples, pretty impressive.

 

JH

[skykeys]

Busch, is the resonance you're referring to similar to this damper resonance effect in the S90ES? Check out this short video for a demo of the feature, highlighted near the end:

 

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2720#

 

This is done by effects processing, not inherent in the sample.

 

I guess Busch is saying in the XS, this is accomplished within the ac. piano sample, not with the effects processor. Are you really sure about that?

 

The reason why I'm not convinced is that it is much more expensive to capture resonance in the sample memory then creating it via the effects processor. And while there might be a subtle difference in the quality of the sound that people with sensative ears, i.e., musicians like us, can hear, most people won't hear it, especially if it is being amplified over a PA.

 

Regards.

[cnegrad]

I could be mistaken, but I thought that I saw an EX video demo that showed that the sympathetic resonance was customizable, and therefore not part of the piano sample.

[Tusker]

Put it this way. If there is some ambience/resonance in the original sample it will sound perfectly acceptable and lifelike without artifical reverb applied.

 

He's not talking about damper resonance (presumably available on the XS as an effect, just as it is on the S90ES) or significant reverb tail (which you could add yourself if you like to drown in that kind of thing). He's talking about a tiny smidgeon of room sound. The difference between a completely anechoic room, and a little bit of air. I've found that a little bit of air in the sample helps. You can rely less on "efx reverb" that way, and still have a drier but persuasive sound. I think that this tiny room ambience creates all kinds of harmonic cancellation/amplification in the early stages of the sound ... resulting in a livelier, but not wet piano sound.

 

I shouldn't speak for Busch, but this is what I read, and it makes good sense.

 

Jerry

[skykeys]

Cnegrad, yes, that would be another good reason why it wouldn't / shouldn't be part of the sample. If it's part of the sample, you lose finite control over it.

 

I'm not saying that the XS doesn't have a great ac. piano sample. I haven't heard it live yet, but I will take it on Busch's comment that it's very good and perhaps higher quality than the S90ES - which was Yamaha's best up to this point. All I'm suggesting is that the "sympathetic resonance" is probably not part of the actual sample, and is either a sample unto itself, or more likely created from the effects processor.

 

I know the damper resonance effect is still part of the XS full_grand_piano sample, from the pic of the XS UI which is contained part way down in this forum thread:

http://www.motifator.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=1,2,4&Board=MotifXS&Number=318080&page=4&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

 

I'd like to know if "damper resonance" and "sympathetic resonance" are really the same thing, or are different patches, or different concepts altogether.

 

I find it interesting that the effects processor on the S90ES seems to have more options than the XS processor, although I don't know what "Insertion (A,B,L)" means for the XS, in the following descriptions off of the website:

 

S90ES: Reverb x 20 types, Chorus x 49 types, Insertion (A, B) x 117 types x 8 blocks, Master Effect x 8 types, Master Equalizer (5 bands), Part EQ (3 bands, stereo), Plug-in Insertion (available when the PLG100-VH has been installed to slot 1)

 

XS: Reverb x 9 types, Chorus x 22 types, Insertion (A, B, L) x 53 types x 8 blocks, Master Effect x 9 types, Master Equalizer (5 bands), Part EQ (3 bands, stereo)

 

 

Regards.

[MikeT156]

From everything I've read and screen shots of the new GUI, Yamaha has been listening to its ES customers. There were things on the ES that needed improvement. Yamaha added a larger color screen, in addition to the sounds everyone is talking about, so I can understand the $400 increase in the retail price. 4K for a workstation of that caliber isn't out of the ball park. I will pass on the XS too, not because I think the price is too high for what it is, I just don't have the $$$. Buying the next generation every time one comes out isn't practical for us poorer folks. I've gotten to the point that I'm getting out of my ES8 what I expected, and then some. For others that are in the market for a new workstation, Yamaha has another winner.

 

Mike T.

[delirium]

I'm going to buy this baby...

 

other demo

 

btw that Bert guy is good to watch :grin:

[skykeys]

I am certainly interested in hearing the piano sample for myself, but actually I'm more interested in checking out the taskflow on the new color LCD screen - to see if it is easier to get to the settings I'm looking for.

 

I am happy with the sounds of the S90ES; I think it's a terrific board. My only complaint is that it can be combersome to find and configure settings.

 

But, $3100 (street price) for any board is prety steep. I wish the new XS would have had more than 128 notes of polyphony at that price, and also poly aftertouch - which I think it doesn't have. Heck, the Ensoniq E-Prime from 12 years ago had poly aftertouch.

[delirium]

I am happy with the sounds of the S90ES; I think it's a terrific board. My only complaint is that it can be combersome to find and configure settings.

 

I agree, but I think motif XS6 would be terrific supplement to S90ES since the latter lack the sequencer color LCD etc.

 

And prices are pretty much close to the Roland Fantom so if somebody is about to invert ~2-3k for keyboard he would be better off buying the latest technology.

 

[skykeys]

Hmm, well, using the XS6 as a midi controller with the S90ES might offer some interesting possibilities. I don't like using (carrying and setting up) more than one board because I just don't think it's necessary, with everything you can do with a single powerful board like the S90ES. But, I'll have to give this some consideration.

 

Thanks for the idea.

[skykeys]

I had posed the question about aftertouch to the Motifator forum, and I received this excellent response from someone named "Bad_Mister", who I think is a Yamaha rep of some kind.

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

The two types of aftertouch are Channel Aftertouch and Polyphonic Aftertouch.

 

Channel Aftertouch is when pressure is applied to the key and everything on the channel responds to it.

Polyphonic Aftertouch (key) is when pressure is applied to a key, only that current note responds to it.

 

Polyphonic aftertouch was introduced to synthesizers back in 1976 by (you guessed it) Yamaha. The CS80 was the first that I can recall ever hearing about polyphonic aftertouch. Back in 1976 the CS80 was one of those keyboards you would drool about but couldn't afford (it wasn't always just the money... you needed a van and a hand to haul that thing around... it weighed in at over 200 pounds.) the CS80 cost more than the van (by the way)...

 

As to why we haven't produced keyboards with Polyphonic Aftertouch in recent history... That is a "how come" question to which there is never a good single answer... but I'm sure if we could build one that felt good to play, that we would.

 

That said, having introduced the concept you can conclude that we probably have studied it. It does change the feel of the action (considerably) and then weigh that against the benefits - I imagine it was nixed because of that.

 

Other solutions have been introduced in the meantime... for example, the SY99 had Zoned Aftertouch - where it could be applied to a specific region. This allowed what you mentioned different layers to respond to aftertouch - rather than a single note. So if you had Brass and Strings layered you could apply it to just the Brass...

 

The XS has so many possibilities. And while, no, it does not have Polyphonic Aftertouch, per se, Aftertouch can be assigned on the receiving end. So if you have sounds layered and only want a specific portion of the sound to respond to Aftertouch, you can do that. For example, you can layer up to 8 Elements in a VOICE (a VOICE mind you) - I just created a Piano&String layer (4 Element piano and a 3 Element string section)... I can, on a per Element basis assign Aftertouch to control aspects of the string sound (without effecting the piano). Open the filter on the strings via key pressure without effecting the piano. So in a VOICE you can often program Aftertouch on a per Element basis (it depends on the parameter selected, of course).

 

In a PERFORMANCE - you can turn the response to Aftertouch ON and OFF per PART - so only the PARTS that you want will respond to it.

 

This is quite different from Polyphonic Aftertouch, I know, but we believe it accomplishes what most musicians require (of course, this does not make it necessarily the case) but it does allow you to specify which sound will respond to it.

 

With polyphonic (key) aftertouch you could have one note modulate in a chord (not only is that difficult to accomplish, physically) it is rarely done (one violin out of a section using vibrato, for example) or just the top note adding some sort of modulation. I know, it is quite different... but the trade off is how the action feels versus how many need actual polyphonic (key) aftertouch. If you ever run across one of the 1976 CS80's play on the keys - you'll see what I mean.. I think it is old technology that if there was a roaring demand for it would have found a solution by now. Let us know how you want to use it. And whether the implementation you find in the Motif-series suits your requirements or not.

[Tonysounds]

I spent 30 minuts with the MotifXS8 today. One word: underwhelmed. As a gigging board, I was unimpressed with the quality (I still haul my Motif 8 classic and love it). As a songwriting tool, it's probably fantastic, but I didn't even explore the sequencing. At $3200 street, I expect to be "motif"-ated to open that wallet, and I can honestly say, I was not.

 

I was surprised, cuz I was GASsing about it.

[Ed Stanley]

If, as I assume, all the functions, features and capabilities of the XS6 and XS8 are identical, does it strike anyone else as excessive that the adjusted price differnce between them is $1000? The price difference between an 88 weighted and 61 unweighted keyboard is not usually near that. Am I missing something?

[eric]

If, as I assume, all the functions, features and capabilities of the XS6 and XS8 are identical, does it strike anyone else as excessive that the adjusted price differnce between them is $1000? The price difference between an 88 weighted and 61 unweighted keyboard is not usually near that. Am I missing something?

 

No you are not missing anything. That's a pretty typical standard in the keyboard industry. XS8 does have the MLAN built in as well, which is an option on the XS6/7.

[MikeT156]

Quote by Tonysounds:

 

"I spent 30 minuts with the MotifXS8 today. One word: underwhelmed. As a gigging board, I was unimpressed with the quality (I still haul my Motif 8 classic and love it). As a songwriting tool, it's probably fantastic, but I didn't even explore the sequencing. At $3200 street, I expect to be "motif"-ated to open that wallet, and I can honestly say, I was not.

 

I was surprised, cuz I was GASsing about it."

 

Actually, I'm a bit surprised that didn't like the quality. I assume you are talking about the sound, not the build quality. I think you're on the mark about being a a fantastic song writing tool. Yamaha, and other mfg are targeting home studio players that routinely use a computer to produce their music. Sure, there's a 16 track sequencer, but in an email exchange with Bad Mister (Phil, a Yamaha rep) on motifator.com, its clear that is their target buyer, studio or small home studio buyers. The Arps on the Motif series are pretty good, but personally, I don't have a lot of use for them. I sequence my songs and ocsasionally use them, but having or not having ARPS is not a deal breaker for me. The traditional workstation is changing and those of us that don't need those features, as well as auto arranger capability, will have to look somewhere else. I'm not knocking it, I think it sounds great, but that's not what I need. I'm in the minority.

 

 

Mike T.