Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Meters sheet music ? Prof Longhair Big Chief?


bermudd

Recommended Posts



  • Replies 37
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Dude... you cannot transcribe the Meters. Seriously. That's like trying to transcribe James Brown's gutteral utterances or his vocal style. I mean, you can do it, but it ain't gonna teach you nothing.

 

Listen to the Meters. Digest the Meters. What they are playing is not technically difficult, but the feel... that will take a LONG time to master... I honestly don't even know if its possible. That shit is in their BLOOD, nature and nuture, the ultimate personification of environment and talent merging into a gestalt.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, you have to submerse yourself in that stuff.

I had a transcription of Big Chief a la Dr. John (a little different than Longhair, a little different than Art Neville). The notes on paper just don't cut it. There are too many little nuances like grace notes and trills that don't get notated. But at least you can get the jist of it. The rest you need to just listen like B3-er said.

 

I'd be willing to scan it and send it to you bermudd, but I can't find it. I'll take a another look tomorrow, but it may be among things that got left behind when I moved over here.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a Professor Longhair Collection put out by Hal Leonard that includes Big Chief. It's pretty good, if you use that and listen to the recordings your on your way. Also Dr John does it on the Homespuntapes.com dvd.

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dude... you cannot transcribe the Meters. Seriously. That's like trying to transcribe James Brown's gutteral utterances or his vocal style. I mean, you can do it, but it ain't gonna teach you nothing.

 

Listen to the Meters. Digest the Meters. What they are playing is not technically difficult, but the feel... that will take a LONG time to master... I honestly don't even know if its possible. That shit is in their BLOOD, nature and nuture, the ultimate personification of environment and talent merging into a gestalt.

 

True THAT.

 

I've heard a thousand covers of Cissy Strut. Basically, they all suck. Including the ones I've done. :rolleyes:

 

Nothing to do with the notes. It's the feel, the groove, all the little itty-bitty details.

 

--Dave

 

Make my funk the P-funk.

I wants to get funked up.

 

My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Professor Longhair Collection" and "New Orleans Piano Masters" both contain the same transcription of Big Chief. It's a composite transcription containing elements of many Longhair versions. It sounds good to me.

 

Dr Johns version is different enough to surprise another musician who is familiar with Longhair's, I play both badly... :)

 

I like both these books. They do notate the grace notes which is a great help since you can hear them on the recordings but they are played so quickly it is hard to hear the individual notes.

hang out with me at woody piano shack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dude... you cannot transcribe the Meters. Seriously. That's like trying to transcribe James Brown's gutteral utterances or his vocal style. I mean, you can do it, but it ain't gonna teach you nothing.

 

Listen to the Meters. Digest the Meters. What they are playing is not technically difficult, but the feel... that will take a LONG time to master... I honestly don't even know if its possible. That shit is in their BLOOD, nature and nuture, the ultimate personification of environment and talent merging into a gestalt.

 

B3er is correct, I play some of the songs in our band, It is more about feel and it is not easy to master . First off Zigaboo and George create a greasy pocket, a slippery slope to hang on too, . And thats what makes the Meters the Meters. :rimshot: The chording is relatively simple. Its the ability to give and fill space that matters and create a groove. I have some charts made up by our guitar player on about 3 songs.

 

Some of the style you want can be found in Dr. Johns video by Homespun. There are transcriptions of Big Chief, and some of Fess's songs he plays . He doesn't really show you how its done in the video or give a lot of pointers on technique.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I've heard a thousand covers of Cissy Strut. Basically, they all suck. Including the ones I've done. :rolleyes:

 

Nothing to do with the notes. It's the feel, the groove, all the little itty-bitty details.

 

--Dave

 

:grin: Ha ha , I know the feeling Dave .

 

 

 

I feel the sme way when, I tried to play Here comes the Meter Man , and Cardova.

 

Fortunately our drummer is from New Orleans and can play the Ziggy style. Hes had some lessons from Stanton Moore. You have to have that going for you to even make an attempt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its the ability to give and fill space that matters and create a groove.

 

Trill hits it on the head. But finding players who get this, at least round here in the NW, is quite difficult, and I expect most other places too. Its very different from the Chicago style, for example, where the rhythm section being in lock step is the goal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just pecked away at Big Cheif 2 months ago buy ear but I bought this verison of it on CD also. This is the version I liked after checking out a few sample clips of it on a few CD's of his! I thought this one was the definitative version of it at least to my ears whatever that means!

 

Amazon Fess CD.....

 

I got pretty far with it just my ear and the version on the CD above. It's in Eb, that's kinda why it rolls off the hands so easy. New Orleans piano tunes tend to be in horn keys because the piano player started playing in the 'Houses' first off back in the day and they mimicked the street horn bands and also tended to use their key signatures.

 

It always 'tags' for lack of a better term back to the 5 (Bb). The hard part is getting the figure itself! It's just a half step up from the first half of the main figure to the second half of it, it starts on a G (G,Eb,Db,Bb,Ab play around with this) and goes to a Ab(AB,F,Eb,Db,Bb play around with this) for the second half of the main figure. I have yet to nail down exactly what he's doing when he goes to the 4 chord, it's more of a chord comp he's doing there and less of a figure on the 4 chord (Ab)!

 

(just play around with the note examples I gave, it may help alittle! it's easier than you think purely note wise, the feel is the hard part!)

 

There using it in on a commercial here in New York too btw. Just heard it last week on TV! Played very fast!

 

The tune was co-written with sombody else who I can't recall right now!

lb

 

 

SP6, CP-50, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm late to the party but as B3-er and others have intimated, there is no amount of analysis that will get the Meters down.

 

Of course, anybody can figure out the key, time signature and tempo. Beyond that, it is feel-based music. You gotta "play" it. Good luck finding your groove. :cool:

 

 

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just added some notes to my Big Cheif analysis ( in my above post), for all it's worth! It counters in the LH from the root to a 5 ( below) for each change or there abouts!

lb

SP6, CP-50, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There using it in on a commercial here in New York too btw. Just heard it last week on TV! Played very fast!

 

The tune was co-written with sombody else who I can't recall right now!

lb

 

 

I heard that commercial last night. Hope his estate got a nice big check!

 

The transcriptions credit it to Earl King

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Byrdman,

 

That would be nice (estate). Maybe somebody has a heart somewhere!

 

When I heard the commercial I realized what I have been flubba-dubbing on the 4 chord in my half-baked way is wrong. That's where I am with it, the 4 chord right now! I have the main figure pretty much down but the tv commercial made me realize a few things again about that too! You have to practice it with alot of repeatitions, it's one of those things - peeling away feel layers to get it right. I had put it down for about a month now, the commercial of course headed me straight to the piano from the couch! Gotta spend some more time with what's going on on and the feel on the 4 (the main 4 change not the tag on every 'go round' 4)!

 

There is a good pianoplayer playing it on the commercial and it's all correct but the tempo is too fast and the feel is slightly tight IMO (but very well played), it's a commercial,so! Wish I could play it with that much 'Panash', but so would Dr.John possibly or Fess if he were here, so!

 

YES! Earl King!

 

Muchas Gracias,

lb

SP6, CP-50, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122
Link to comment
Share on other sites

... It's in Eb, that's kinda why it rolls off the hands so easy. New Orleans piano tunes tend to be in horn keys because the piano player started playing in the 'Houses' first off back in the day and they mimicked the street horn bands and also tended to use their key signatures...

 

all true LB ... :thu: and those horn keys are important to the piano player because you can slide with one finger from the minor 3rd on a black key to the major 3rd on a white key. Blues piano players started doing this to mimic the slides and bends that the guitar players were playing, who were mimicking the slides and bends in the voice.

 

I've noticed that a lot of beginner piano students (and even some teachers, and even some of those that play out) that have been taught the "traditional" blues scale of (key of C) C,Eb,F,Gb,G,Bb ignore the Major 3rd completely when soloing. New Orleans pianists make major use (pun intended) ;) of the Major 3rd and Major 6th degrees of the scale - usually tumbling into them from up above. :crazy:

 

I went to see Earl King years ago at the now long-gone Tramp's in NYC. Earl played "Big Chief" in E. (I remember because a friend of mine was playing piano on the gig and I remember asking him about it after the show) I guess Earl wasn't thinking too much about horn keys, and he sure wasn't thinking much at all about tuning his guitar that night. He played LOUD and OUT OF TUNE the whole night.....and it was f*****g great! The energy and emotion that he put out into the room just devoured any unimportant details like an out of tune guitar.

 

You won't find that in the sheet music. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Latchmo,

 

I saw Ray Charles at Tramps, and Allen Toussaint on two seperate shows about 10-14 yuears ago! I think those were the only 2 times I was there. I was dating my wife and we would head out to the city for the shows!

 

Alot of jazz tunes are in those keys also! I have gotten used to playing in Eb on jazz standards.

 

It's All Good,

lb

SP6, CP-50, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've noticed that a lot of beginner piano students (and even some teachers, and even some of those that play out) that have been taught the "traditional" blues scale of (key of C) C,Eb,F,Gb,G,Bb ignore the Major 3rd completely when soloing. New Orleans pianists make major use (pun intended) ;) of the Major 3rd and Major 6th degrees of the scale - usually tumbling into them from up above. :crazy:

 

That's funny, because as a self-taugh musician, I've always considered the "blues scale" to be C, E, F, G, Bb, and the minor third (Eb) to be a "blue note" that you'd throw in now and then, not just hang on like crazy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've noticed that a lot of beginner piano students (and even some teachers, and even some of those that play out) that have been taught the "traditional" blues scale of (key of C) C,Eb,F,Gb,G,Bb ignore the Major 3rd completely when soloing. New Orleans pianists make major use (pun intended) ;) of the Major 3rd and Major 6th degrees of the scale - usually tumbling into them from up above. :crazy:

 

That's funny, because as a self-taugh musician, I've always considered the "blues scale" to be C, E, F, G, Bb, and the minor third (Eb) to be a "blue note" that you'd throw in now and then, not just hang on like crazy.

 

yeah, those crazy hanger on-ers ;):)

Depends on the context, Jimmy Smith liked to hang out on the minor 3rd every now and again, no?

You would know better than I B3-er - great videos by the way.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

what new orleans tunes can you guys play?

 

I'm really feeling Tipitina right now (Fess). Also practising hard on Pop's Dilemma and Sunny Side Of The Street (Booker).

 

I can play a passable version of each, they sound fine for a while until you refresh your memory and listen to the originals!

 

What's Tipitina all about by the way? What's the name mean?

hang out with me at woody piano shack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've noticed that a lot of beginner piano students (and even some teachers, and even some of those that play out) that have been taught the "traditional" blues scale of (key of C) C,Eb,F,Gb,G,Bb ignore the Major 3rd completely when soloing. New Orleans pianists make major use (pun intended) ;) of the Major 3rd and Major 6th degrees of the scale - usually tumbling into them from up above. :crazy:

 

That's funny, because as a self-taugh musician, I've always considered the "blues scale" to be C, E, F, G, Bb, and the minor third (Eb) to be a "blue note" that you'd throw in now and then, not just hang on like crazy.

 

yeah, those crazy hanger on-ers ;):)

Depends on the context, Jimmy Smith liked to hang out on the minor 3rd every now and again, no?

You would know better than I B3-er - great videos by the way.

 

 

Oh sure, the minor third is important. When I first taught myself to play, I just played the black keys, which of course are a pentatonic blues scale with a minor third in Eb. But obviously the chords behind you, in a standard blues, are all dominant 7th chords, so the major third is just as effective as the minor, even more-so when you use the minor as a "grace note" to get to the major, emulating a bend like horn and guitar players do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

what new orleans tunes can you guys play?

 

I'm really feeling Tipitina right now (Fess). Also practising hard on Pop's Dilemma and Sunny Side Of The Street (Booker).

 

I can play a passable version of each, they sound fine for a while until you refresh your memory and listen to the originals!

 

What's Tipitina all about by the way? What's the name mean?

 

I was in a band called Trick Bag which the Meters titled an album. We did that tune and Cissy Strut. I do a version of Avalon that I think is a Fess's version. I also play Do You Know What It Means To Miss New Orleans solo.

 

Trick Bag Chorus

I heard you tellin Willie across the fence

I heard you tellin Willie I ain't got no sense

The way you been acting is such a drag

You're gonna put me in a Trick Bag

Jimmy

 

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho

NEW BAND CHECK THEM OUT

www.steveowensandsummertime.com

www.jimmyweaver.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love James Booker's version of Sunnyside of the Street! I have it on a live compilation. Yeah, I found I have an ability to play a New Orleans style also and I'm just starting to work on some actual tunes.I bought an old Dr John CD and music book a few years ago and put it down actually, I never went back to it, I have trouble learning that way I think!

 

With the band I used to play in, I could really play in that style 60% of the night, so I didn't really learn alot of tunes but I was learning the territory, so now I'm dialing that in a bit that I'm not gigging regularily! With N.O. style piano it's more 'how' you do it that 'what' you do (tunes) I found.

 

The stride on Booker's 'Sunnyside' is nice on the live version I have! I'm currently working on Big Chief.

 

I don't know what Tipitina is about but I found out what 'Fi-le(sp) Gumbo' is. Fi-le(sp) is a green powder you add to a Gumbo made from sassafras and another spice. MY wife and I go to New Orleans on vacation alot and she's been cooking some N.O. dishes lately! She had to order it online, therer isn't and FILE in ShopRite!

 

This will help with the Tipitina lyric it's pretty cool!

Tipitina lyric and some analysis!

lb

SP6, CP-50, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does the word Tipitina mean? I read there was/is a music club called the same, but I presume it's named after the song, not the other way around.

 

My version of "Sunny" is from the Junko Partner solo piano CD. It is incredible. My version is simplified somewhat (of course!) but I think I capture the feel ok.

 

LegatoBoy, We'll have to record and post our Sunny mp3s someday... :).

 

hang out with me at woody piano shack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kanoboy,

 

There is a big club in New Orleans called Tipitina's, I believe it is named after the tune. 'Fess' played there alot also and there is bust of him as you walk through the doors of the club up on a pedestal.

 

There is also another Tipitina's which is a new club affiliated to the original in a more touristy part of town, the old one is actually across town on the other side of the railroad yards at the edge of a residential neighborhood. It's a big old wooden building, pretty large actually. I saw the Derek Trucks band there while on vacation last time I was in N.O..

 

I'm up for 'Sunnyside', I'll try to work on it!

 

You know, it just occurred to me, Tipitina may be a 'Madam' to the young Loberta that is! But it's just a guess! Because the guy was waiting at home for Loberta and Tipitina wanted her money right! Well Maybe, it's a stretch! Here, read this again, see what you make of it, we may never really know, it's so colloquial!:

 

Tipitina's Lyric . . .

 

lb :thu:

SP6, CP-50, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hi LegatoBoy et al...

 

I did actually get around to recording myself playing Sunny Side :D WHile I was at it I recorded a Professor Longhair style Tipitina too.

 

Both are rather rough and ready, I'm not used to recording myself and it was done in one take, bum notes and all. Hope you enjoy it anyway. I'd love to hear your feedback.

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=694248

 

Consider the gauntlet well and truly thrown :)

 

 

hang out with me at woody piano shack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...