OT: Gig canceling etiquette

[ITGITC]

 

So, just to be clear, I wasn't throwing up due to anyone's comments. Just a joke about Eva Longoria. Hopefully that takes me out of the jerk hole and puts me in the reasonable hole where I think I belong.

 

I apologize Steve.

 

I don't care about Eva - she's simply a way to add a little levity to the forum. If you don't like her, pick someone you do like. That's OK with me.

 

But honestly, it's a hot button with me regarding the very serious decision of cancelling a gig - or not. Imagine how cnegrad must have felt when he heard the news about his band mate. Oh my God. No kidding, I don't care if the pay is excellent or if it's just a few dollars, negotiations between the band manager and the club owner/manager should be made such that open communication can determine what's best for each party.

 

Each situation is different and I believe that garrafon used his best judgement to do everything possible to come to an amicable agreement with the bandmembers, as well as the club owner.

 

Yeah. My apologies for getting heated. My family was in the trucking business for many years. I know what it's like to get a call in the middle of the night with horrible news on the other end. It's never about the truck or the freight. It's about the life and well-being of the driver and other motorists. A band is no different. We all want to be treated with respect. If you play in a band and the manager of the band really doesn't care if you risk your life on slippery roads driving 45 minutes to the gig, how will that make you feel?

 

Thanks for your reply, Steve.

 

Tom

 

[stepay]

Tom,

 

No problem.

 

You and I are in agreement mostly. As you have strong opinions about weather, I do also, and while I understand full well that as a driver you can't control everything (someone could slam into you for example), I also cringe sometimes when I hear that someone crashed their car "due to the weather". SOMETIMES that is true (black ice for example) when you had no idea what the conditions were like, but the vast majority of the time, when someone goes off the road and into a ditch or slams into a telephone pole, it is because they were driving too fast for the conditions, and they knew what those conditions were ahead of time. The son of a woman I work with was driving her car and slid on snow and ice and into another car, and he was in here trying to defend his position that he wasn't going too fast for the conditions. The fact is that he might not have KNOWN he was driving too fast, but he WAS driving too fast.

 

I've had one good friend die in a car accident, and a few other relatives and acquaintences die in car accidents, so I'm not insensitive to it all. I'm sorry to hear about Cnegrad's former bandmate. It's a sad story, but unless a semi trailer slammed into him and pushed him into the pole, he was driving too fast for the conditions (going so fast that you wrap yourself around a pole and die as a result means you were going too fast; I mean, I once slid on ice into a telephone pole (when I was a more inexperienced driver), but I was going at a super slow speed and just barely bumped into it as a result). It's sad that bandmate had to pay for that mistake with his life, but it was his mistake.

 

If people want to stay home when it snows, fine. For me, I'm comfortable going out unless the government says it's illegal to do so.

[Garrafon]

Tom,

 

As far as my other comments go, I said I wasn't sure how much snow there was so I couldn't say one way or another if it were wise to go to the gig or not. I definitely value human life over a $100 per person gig at the local bar, but a little snow doesn't bother me either. Just depends on how much snow there was. I'm fine with what anyone wants to decide for themselves here. Just that for me, unless there were a Level 1 Snow emergency (this is the system they use in Ohio) or the news said it would be that while I would be playing, then I would do the gig. My van is very heavy and handles well in the snow.

 

As I previously stated in this thread, "Last Friday, however, it had been snowing all day. By the time we canceled, there was already about 6 inches on the ground, it was snowing like mad out and the predictions were 1-2 inches per hour throughout the night. There had been talk on the TV, radio about the authorities announcing an emergency (under which conditions travel is restricted), although, to the best of my knowledge, the emergency was never issued."

 

Hope that clarifies the snow situation.

[stepay]

Tom,

 

As far as my other comments go, I said I wasn't sure how much snow there was so I couldn't say one way or another if it were wise to go to the gig or not. I definitely value human life over a $100 per person gig at the local bar, but a little snow doesn't bother me either. Just depends on how much snow there was. I'm fine with what anyone wants to decide for themselves here. Just that for me, unless there were a Level 1 Snow emergency (this is the system they use in Ohio) or the news said it would be that while I would be playing, then I would do the gig. My van is very heavy and handles well in the snow.

 

As I previously stated in this thread, "Last Friday, however, it had been snowing all day. By the time we canceled, there was already about 6 inches on the ground, it was snowing like mad out and the predictions were 1-2 inches per hour throughout the night. There had been talk on the TV, radio about the authorities announcing an emergency (under which conditions travel is restricted), although, to the best of my knowledge, the emergency was never issued."

 

Hope that clarifies the snow situation.

 

I probably would have cancelled in that situation.

[kanker.]

Imagine how cnegrad must have felt when he heard the news about his band mate.

Believe me, I'm not trying to belittle that tragedy at all, but in cnegrad's own words the guy was hurrying home to his wife. You can't do that in good weather, much less bad. You need to drive safely at ALL times and even then it's still a crap shoot because of your fellow man. That's sort of the point I was trying to make earlier. Maybe I'm a bit crazy, but I love winter driving for the very reason that it makes me refocus myself on just how much attention one really needs to pay to their driving at all times, even on a nice sunny day.

[raddtunes]

Radd:

 

I don't mean to nitpick, but your email oversimplifies things a bit, so I thought I'd share a little more detail for anyone who cares.

 

You're NOT nitpicking, many of my emails do oversimplify, and it's always a blast to learn more from someone as yourself.

Your comments and insights are very appreciated, and I'm definitely in the above-mentioned "anyone who cares" group.

 

Thanks! -

 

 

 

 

[NoahZark]

You're NOT nitpicking, many of my emails do oversimplify, and it's always a blast to learn more from someone as yourself.

Your comments and insights are very appreciated, and I'm definitely in the above-mentioned "anyone who cares" group.

 

Happy to help (and even happier than I didn't offend)!

 

All the best,

Noah

[raddtunes]

Offend Me???? I'm a Las Vegas musician. Everyone knows we don't have any feelings!!! - - Pete Radd

[MikeT156]

Pete:

 

A Vegas musician? I'm impressed. There's a lot of competition for gigs in Vegas.

 

Mike T.

[Garrafon]

As you have strong opinions about weather, I do also, and while I understand full well that as a driver you can't control everything (someone could slam into you for example), I also cringe sometimes when I hear that someone crashed their car "due to the weather". SOMETIMES that is true (black ice for example) when you had no idea what the conditions were like, but the vast majority of the time, when someone goes off the road and into a ditch or slams into a telephone pole, it is because they were driving too fast for the conditions, and they knew what those conditions were ahead of time.

 

I think that is a gross oversimplification to claim that if someone had an accident "due to the weather" they necessarily were driving too fast. While that may be a significant contributor, there are lots of other factors involved inculuding, but not limited to, (1) other weather conditions (other than black ice, it is not uncommon for us to get sudden whiteouts where the wind blows the snow so hard you cannot see anything...I have some rather scary stories about white outs...I don't think speed would affect this...I will come back to this later); (2) improper/inadequate/or malfunctioning equipment (e.g. poor brakes, tires, shocks, etc); (3) defects in the roadway (large pothole, other broken pavement, uneven surface, etc); (4) other drivers; (5) animals that suddenly dart into the road; (6) driver reaction time (which includes such things as whether the driver is using a cell phone, playing with the radio, eating a sandwich, drunk, on drugs (legal or illegal), age, alertness level, etc.; and, of course (7) alien encounters (had to throw in some levity).

 

Back to a particularly scarey whiteout story. I was driving Route 88 West in the Winter. It was a very sunny day. The roads were clear, although there was a lot of the snow on the ground. Winds were sporadic between nonexistent to whipping. I was driving along between two tractor trailers (someplace I never like to be), but I had a very comfortable distance between me and each tractor trailer. We came along a flat stretch of road with wide fields on each side. We were all doing about 70 or so (65 MPH speed limit...yes, we were speeding, but not really for the weather conditions). Suddenly, the wind whipped up the top layer and snow causing whiteout conditions so that you could not see anything...even the hood of your car. Here's the dilemma - do you slow down or stop because: (1) the tractor trailer in front of you may have slowed down or stopped and you don't want to hit him, or (2) you can't see the road so it's probably not good to drive onward; or do you keep going because if you slow down or stop and the tractor trailer behind you does not, you are going to be road kill for the crows? Quite a dilemma. Fortunately, I lived (I opted not to stop, although I did slow a bit).

 

Anyway, driver error certainly is a major contributor to accidents, but please, let us not oversimplify things.

[Mr. Nightime]

I had a similar instance. I was driving the band van with everyone in it, towing a 16' trailer with the gear, heading south on I29 in North Dakota. Beautiful, sunny winter day. The right lane was completely dry and clear, the left had about an inch of very powdery snow on it.

 

I was driving along at about 5MPH above the speed limit, not unheard of for these conditions, when a large truck passed me. It kicked up the fine powdery snow so bad it was instant white out. I felt the van pull to the left as it went by, and I had to correct back right. By the time I could see again, I was running in the left lane. I gathered myself, and continued on, only to have the same thing happen a short time later by another truck. I pulled off at the next available exit, happy to be alive.

[raddtunes]

There's a lot of competition for gigs in Vegas.

Mike T.

 

Thanks for the kind words. The lounges in the casinos are really about to completely flatline. Frankly, the few lounge gigs left are simply budget cuts that are farther down on someone's "to do" list. (mergers and blowing up old hotels taking priority right now).

 

 

[Bobadohshe]

There's a lot of competition for gigs in Vegas.

Mike T.

 

Thanks for the kind words. The lounges in the casinos are really about to completely flatline. Frankly, the few lounge gigs left are simply budget cuts that are farther down on someone's "to do" list. (mergers and blowing up old hotels taking priority right now).

 

 

Really!? Explain it more! I'm curious.

[wmp]

For what very little good it's done me, I've always erred on the side of stupidity doing gigs in bad weather. Most often, the venue cancels, but seldom in time to save me much work.

 

One gig that really pissed me off was at the O club at the Newport naval base. I called early in the day and told them we'd have to cancel unless they could put the band up over night. No problem. After we played, they informed us that they would not provide accomodations. We loaded out into two feet of snow in blizard conditions. The ride home, normally a little over an hour, took five.

 

For the first time ever, I had to cancel two gigs recently because of back problems. Fortunately, this wasn't a big deal because the bandleader has the deep bench.

 

 

[raddtunes]

Regarding Vegas lounges - -

 

 

Really!? Explain it more! I'm curious.

 

Sure - I was talking a little old school. The word "lounge" hear has generally meant a bar - in a casino, owned and operated by that casino, with live bands and/or singers. When I arrived, (88) - most of these lounges were by then "open" - meaning not enclosed like a showroom. And very close to the casino - easily visible from the pit. There were bands-o-plenty back then, all rotating around doing two weeks here, two weeks there.

 

This is the type of work I was describing. There are certainly lounges, bars, clubs, shows - still. Many of these are now leased and operated by outside vendors. The few lounge bands/singers I know to be still working a little are seeing the few viable lounge gigs going away.