OT: Gig canceling etiquette

[Garrafon]

This past Saturday, for the first time in my musical career, I cancelled a gig. The gig was scheduled for Saturday night. The snow was coming down like you wouldn't believe and my singer would have had to drive over 45 minutes to get there (that's driving time on a nice, clear day) on very snowy, dangerous roads. The rest of us would have had about a 20 minute drive time.

 

The club we were to play at is one of our favorite places to play. As is typical around here, the pay is low. We called the bar and they said they would be open and they would like us to play. I called the bar to let them know we were likely to cancel and that I would try to call the owner. I tried to call the bar owner, but I could not get through to him. I left a detailed message and, to date, he has not gotten back to me. Finally, about 2.5 hours before the gig, I called the bar back and let them know we would not be there.

 

I hate backing out of things and not fulfilling my word, but, driving out there, stomping through the snow, and having to drive back for peanuts pay just didn't seem worth it. I still feel bad, but...what can ya do?

 

So, did we do the right thing? What would you guys have done?

[Mr. Nightime]

It sounds like you did the right thing. You made the attempts to contact the club owner, and you were concerend with your bandmate's safety. Plus, in that kind of weather the crowd would probably have been minimal to non-existant. Most people won't risk driving on slick, snowey roads at night with a snootfull.

 

Considering how many times musicians get screwed by club owners that cancel at the last minute, you were more than professional.

[Joe P]

Garrafon,

 

I would have done the same thing. You made a reasonable effort to reach the owner and a rational decision to not drive in bad weather. If the owner holds that against you, find another room, right?

 

Regards,

Joe

[ITGITC]

I still feel bad, but...what can ya do?

 

So, did we do the right thing? What would you guys have done?

 

Yeah...

 

As I learned throughout my college days, sometimes you just have to tell 'em no on a Saturday night.

 

Lots of broken hearts. What can I say?

 

Eva will just have to get over it.

 

http://www.askmen.com/specials/2005_top_99/celebs/72_eva_longoria.jpg

 

:grin:

 

 

 

 

[K K]

Cute girlie.

[ITGITC]

Cute girlie.

 

I know.

 

Picked because I knew you would approve, Cy.

 

Of course, even Eva can't compare to your friend down the street.

 

Garrafon, I'd like to apologize for Cydonia hijacking this thread.

 

 

 

 

[kanker.]

Considering how many times musicians get screwed by club owners that cancel at the last minute, you were more than professional.

Just because club owners do that, does it make it right to do that in return? Hell no. Sorry, but I think you did the wrong thing here. Canceling the day of a gig is horrible form unless there is a true major emergency, ie death in the family, major personal/family injury, a true natural disaster, etc.... A snow storm is not a natural disaster. You have to remember now that your band, whose name was on the marquis, cancelled at the last minute, and that your name is behind that cancellation, and that that is now a part of your band's and your personal reputation.

[K K]

Well, sometimes during big winter storms people get injured or die in car accidents.

 

I don't know about the particular snow storm they had there, but here in the North sometimes safety calls for not taking the road.

[kanker.]

Well, sometimes during big winter storms people get injured or die in car accidents.

I understand that, but that doesn't change the perception that you cancelled out at the last minute. Sorry. I've driven through ice storms and blizzards to gigs because it's a job a I agreed to. Just because the gig doesn't pay great doesn't mean your work ethic should be any less - you agreed to the gig for that price.

[BluesKeys]

While canceling a gig is never a good thing, there is something to be said for safety of your personel. I would likely have done the same thing given the circumstances. I mean how much business is a club going to do an a nasty nigh? I think you did him a favor by not having to pay you out of his pocket. Because the bar receipts would probably not covered your fee.

[K K]

Here, for gigs at more than 100 km in winter, I remember taken agreements that included stuff like an "extreme weather" clause. I'm not talking about a few inches of snow here, but like when you can't see 5 feet in front of your windshield and police closes the roads, it's best to stay home. :grin:

 

I don't know much about NY and the weather there. But I think this is acceptable for gigs promised at more than one hour away in certain areas, for example in the States touched by seasonal very tough weather.

[ProfD]

Well, sometimes during big winter storms people get injured or die in car accidents.

I understand that, but that doesn't change the perception that you cancelled out at the last minute. Sorry. I've driven through ice storms and blizzards to gigs because it's a job a I agreed to. Just because the gig doesn't pay great doesn't mean your work ethic should be any less - you agreed to the gig for that price.

 

There is no hazard pay for musicians. If someone chooses to risk life and limb getting to a gig or even to be a patron at the club, that is their choice.

 

OTOH, if someone is wise enough to cancel or sit it out after making the appropriate phone calls, I believe they did the right thing. Live to play another gig.

 

I do not believe Garrafon sacrificed his own or the reputation of his band in this case. In fact, I think he made a very smart business decision.

[Bobadohshe]

As I read the intials posts on this thread, my immediate reaction was that it was wrong to cancel the gig. I have never heard of cancelling a show the same day or even within a couple days of the performance just because the weather was bad and it was slightly more of an inconvenience than you had bargained for. But then I read BluesKeys post:

 

I mean how much business is a club going to do an a nasty nigh? I think you did him a favor by not having to pay you out of his pocket. Because the bar receipts would probably not covered your fee.

 

And I changed my mind. You were probably doing the dude a favor. Not to mention the weather you guys have out there can be pretty stupid and unsafe.

[raddtunes]

Some random thoughts . .

 

1. There is no question that if you reasonably thought your safety was in question, you did the right thing. Period.

 

2. We're in a situation now where local bar/club owners have beat us down (in price) so badly, that they actually have sacrificed their ability to have the kind of influence they'd like to have over us.

 

3. If this club paid you fairly, consistently over time, you probably would have taken the risks that night.

Again - he's getting what he's been willing to pay for.

 

4. You might end up having to somehow defend yourself or your reputation from this action. In many states the highway patrol/state police and/or your local AAA will issue public advisories on travel. You might get a copy of what they said that night and tuck it away for future use, if needed.

 

Good luck!

 

 

[cnegrad]

Here's a sobering view on this subject:

 

Six years ago we had a gig on the night of my birthday in the middle of January. New York had a major snow storm the day before, but the roads had been plowed, and it was reasonable (by NY standards) that we would play for this wedding reception in Long Island. Unlike a club gig, if the wedding is happening, then canceling is definitely NOT an option.

 

Well, we did the gig and rocked the house. As I was loading up the car, flurries started to fall. But being a native New Yorker, I didn't give it a second thought. Fifteen minutes later, we were on the highway when the skies opened up and dumped an enormous amount of snow in a very short period of time. Between the blizzard and the strong winds, I had to pull over several times due to complete lack of visibility.

 

We eventually made it home, but the experience was quite harrowing. Around 3am, the phone rang. One of our male vocalists wrapped his car around a telephone pole and died that night. He was a 40 year old father with a young son, and had recently reconciled with his wife, and was hurrying home to her when this happened; and he only lived about 20 minutes from the gig.

 

Be careful out there, guys and gals. While being a responsible professional is extremely important, NO GIG is worth losing your life over.

[K K]

Cnegrad, thanks for this reply.

 

That's what I was basically saying earlier. No job, scheduled appointment or gig, regardless if it's well paid or not, is worth your life or anyone else's when it's too dangerous to drive.

[kanker.]

The thing is, this could happen at any time or any place. Sorry if that sounds strong or whatever, but such is life. We're gigging at night when lots of folks are drinking. Some of you may even be drinking. The risks of ending up in a fatal accident are sort of par for the course because of that. One must always be aware of the road conditions be they weather related or related to other motorists. The dangers are ALWAYS there.

[Byrdman]

You did absolutely the right thing. It was clearly a night on which conditions could become life threatening, especially on the way home in the early hours of the morning for your singer. Plus you probably would have been playing to the bartender, the short-order cook and the bar cat.

 

I would not have hesitated to cancel, and you clearly did everything you could to notify the bar as well.

[NoahZark]

Despite whatever "show-must-go-on" tendencies we musicians may have, Cnegrad's sad story is, indeed, a sobering reminder that that general rule must have its exceptions. Raddtunes has it right: If you reasonably thought your safety or that of fellow band members would have been at risk if you went through with the gig, then canceling is the prudent (and right!) thing to do. That said, if the owner of the bar now makes a judgment that your tolerance for risk is different than he wants in a band playing his bar, that's obviously his right. In other words, there may be consequences from your decision that you don't like. Living to tell this story is, however, the most important thing by far!

 

Noah

[jimtheswede]

This almost exact same thing happened to our band recently. What I observed was a right way (IMO), and a very wrong way of handling this situation.

 

First, the wrong way:

Our (now former) drummer was worried about an impending ice/snow storm a full 5 days ahead of the gig. He drove (with difficulty even on the best weather days) the trailer that hauled the PA and lights, as well as his drums. Early on the morning of the gig, his wife called and left messages for each of the bandmembers at home saying that her husband refused to drive the trailer to the gig, we needed to cancel, and someone would have to tell the bar owner . After getting the message, I talked with our guitarist (who got the gig and knew the owner) about getting possible last minute replacements for drummer and PA. The snow was only about 2" at the time but more was forecast throughout the day. We found one somewhat reluctant drummer who said he could do it and provide PA if the snow didn't get to bad. So, we thought the show could go on, maybe....

 

And then the right way:

 

As was already mentioned, the economics for the bar on such a bad night would almost guarantee a poor profit (if any). The guitarist and I decided he could call the owner and explain that we found a replacement drummer and could play the gig, but...would the bar make enough for it to be monetarily beneficial for them? In other words - let the owner realize that the weather would cause the bar to lose $$ is they had a band that night, and we offered to bow out if THEY wanted us to. So, we let the owner make the right call. :grin:

 

None of us really wanted to risk life & limb and fenders to make it all the way out to the gig (it was a little out of town), but having the owner make the decision made it so they cancelled us instead. From a work ethic standpoint, we (except drummer)should and would have made every effort to show up if the owner wanted us to:freak:, but fortunately we all came to the same decision together.

 

Don't know if we'd get the same result every time something like this happens, but at least WE didn't actually cancel - we offered to give him a choice and let the owner make the call. The drummer was not someone we wanted to stay in the band, so it also made it much easier to let him go after this episode. We found a better drummer and we are back playing at the same bar next week.

 

 

[Tonysounds]

I don't know. Frankly, if this is your livelihood, you treat it like a job; 'yeah, boss, it's snowing, I can't make it.' If that's acceptable to you, then so be it. 45 minutes to get to a gig? Doesn't seem like that big a deal to me.

 

CNE tells us a very sad tale for sure; not to be callous or heartless, but really, something like that could have happened at any time, any day, under any number of circumstances. For perspective, my band and I were playing in Iraq when Dimebag Darrell was killed at a gig in Ohio.

 

I had a gig about a month go, where the snow came unexpectedly, viciously, and almost horizontally. I felt like cancelling that nite, especially since it took almost an hour to get there (normally a 20min trip). But it never occurred to any of us to cancel. The club owner didn't hesitate to pay us our full (kinda hefty) guarantee, even though I offered to cut back a little as the snow definitely impacted the crowd (and it was first time in). He wouldn't hear of it: "Hell no, you kept everyone here all nite long, the band was great, it's a shame, but no matter; we'll make it up on the next date" and he booked us again right away.

 

Guess it kind of depends on whether this is a vocation, an occupation, or a diversion.

 

T

[K K]

Guess it kind of depends on whether this is a vocation, an occupation, or a diversion.

 

Sure, one can die in a car accident anytime. Drunk people, young people driving faster than their abilities, etc. In a severe snow storm, though, your chances to be involved in an accident are multiplied by 10. When I drive in normal weather, I can always keep a safe distance from drunk people or young people trying to drive as when they play video games. I can see several hundred feet front and rear.

 

In a blizzard, you might sometimes see not farther than 5 feet in front of your nose. So yes, you can get involved in a car accident anytime, especially if you're desperately wanting it to happen. :grin:

 

Guess it kind of depends on whether or not you accept to risk your life for your job. The military and firemen have to accept such risks. It's a tough choice. Do musicians need to do that? Each have the right to decide for their own. To me, it's not up to somebody else, my boss, or the owner of a bar to decide.

 

If the police are closing roads, it's probably because there's a good reason, right?

 

Then I cancel the gig, the job day, the important meeting, the trip to where ever planned six months in advance.

 

That accident could have happened to the thread starter. Personally, I would not feel the slightest bit bad about it if it was indeed a real men blizzard like we have over here in the North.

[kanker.]

If the police are closing roads, it's probably because there's a good reason, right?

If the police are closing the roads, you're talking about a very different circumstance.

[K K]

Well, in real men blizzrds here in Québec, most of the time police close the roads.

[Bobadohshe]

What's a Blizzard?

 

Last week it was foggy and we all freaked out.

[Jeff Irok]

"Hello? Fred from 'The Cool band'? What's up? What do you mean? I know it's snowing...So you rolled you equipment van on the highway? What's that got to do with me? WHAT??? You're not making the gig?!? This is THE DAY of the gig! If you were gonna cancel, you should have done it weeks ago when I could find a replacement! Well, if you were more organized, you'd schedule your accidents in advance! I don't care if the lead singer is in ICU with tubes stuck in him! You know we have plenty of room here to hold whatever equipment you're using! THIS IS YOUR REPUTATION ON THE LINE, MISTER!!!"

 

My gig for last Saturday in the noreaster that we had was CANCELLED by the CLUB OWNER. A RESPONSIBLE club owner. As musicians, let's not throw this all on ourselves. A reasonable employer (read: club owner) would not hold it against any band if they couldn't make it in that kind of weather that we had last Saturday. In these circumstances, a club stays open ONLY to pick up a few extra bucks from some locals and for a place to go for people stuck in the snow, not to host a huge party night. Garrafon did the right thing.

[Manhunter]

Years ago, I think it was 87 when we had a hurricane over the south east of England, I had a gig that weekend following the storm. Many roads were still closed, power lines down, telephone lines down etc etc. I tried calling the venue but couldn't get through.

 

We turned up for the gig but the venue (a castle like building up on a hill in a nearby (25 miles away) forrest) was completely blacked out and not a soul in sight. As I knocked on the large wooden, iron clad door a light flickered in a distant turret and we could see it coming down various staircases and along landings. Eventually, the owners elderly father got to the front door and informed us that they'd been closed all week without power!! If only I'd cancelled!!

 

Mind you I would have cancelled if the hurricane had been blowing the night of the gig. I can't say if Garrafon did the right thing as this depends on the conditions - in this country if we get an inch of snow everything grinds to a halt but where heavy snow is often experienced this might just be another day's normal travelling.

 

Dave

[MikeT156]

Interesting thread folks. Although I don't use a "contract" for gigs anymore (most club owners won't sign a Musician's Union Contract) I mail a written confirmation right after I confirm the gig on the phone with the club owner or manager. I state the date, time, and agreed upon compensation for the night. I also address Cancellation, either by the club or me. I live in central PA and the Allegheny mountains. We get snow, sleet, and freezing rain during the winter months (especially this year) and I tell the club owner that if he/she intends to cancel the gig because of weather, they should call me no later than 3 pm the day of the gig. I have to rent a U-Haul trailer to haul my gear, and I incur an expensive. So if they are going to cancel, I need to know as soon as they know its not going to fly. I also tell them that I will cancel if the weather is too bad. Driving over mountain roads under the previously stated conditions while hauling a trailer is asking for it around here. No penalty to either party should they decide to cancel. But I give them a heads up if I'm not going to show and I have no problem if they cancel because the weather will keep the crowd away.

 

 

Mike T.

[cnegrad]

Further clarification-

 

Don't get me wrong; I've played and driven through some serious snow storms in my time. It almost became a running joke that you could predict when the storm would hit based on my gig schedule. And my employers at the time appreciated my tenacity and professionalism in showing up for gigs that others would not.

 

Understand that I personally am not talking about cancellation of club gigs; I'm talking about weddings. The bride and groom hopefully only get married once, and this is their Big Day. So I would never, ever take cancellation lightly; only under the most adverse of circumstances.

 

So 2-4 inches of snow would almost never keep me home, but anything stronger would bear some serious consideration and communication with the client and venue.

 

But I keep coming back to one point: A club owner or party planner may be aggravated for a week or two, and your "reputation" may or may not be tarnished for a short while. But how do you think that my late friend's surviving wife and son feel about it?

 

Kevin, I understand your points. IMHO, it's one thing taking on the normal, day-to-day risks that life throws at you, but it's another thing entirely to push your luck far beyond the norm. I can always get another gig, but dead is dead, and pleasing a cranky club owner just 'aint worth it.

[Mr. Nightime]

While we never have to be concerned about snow, we have some gigs that will cancel at the last minute due to the weather. Many of our gigs are outside, so if the weather is too cold or too wet, the owner will call us and let us know of the cancellation. One in particular is about a 40 minute drive, and unfortunately, we usually find out after we've gotten there. They usually will give us a make up date when this happens, so it's not so bad. Plus, it's our best paying gig.

 

If we set up and play through the second set, we get full pay.

 

The last time I had to cancel a gig at the last minute, I was already half set up, and got a panic call from my wife because a serious brush fire was in the city park right across the street, and neighbors were out there with garden hoses protecting our homes. The band, and the club owner were very understanding, and all said to just go, and take care of my own.

 

I've traveled extensively throughout the north, even extreme northern Canada. The blizzards and whiteouts can be extremely dangerous. If I was there in Garrofon's situation, I probably would have done the same thing. I must admit, though, that jimtheswede's idea is very good. Everyone wins, and no one's reputation is tarnished.

 

If you go out on a bad night and risk your and your band mate's lives, you're not taking care of your own.