Guitars (within reason) that hold / appreciate

[LiveMusic]

Is there such an animal? A guitar that pretty much holds its value or appreciates? Speaking of guitars you can play regularly, not some collector's item. I speak of acoustics but electrics, as well.

 

Do you know of a general key to buy guitars that hold value?

 

I think ebay has increased guitar value. Seems to me, I regularly see people pay more than they should.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Fender, Gibson, PRS, their real high line guitars I think will appreciate eventually.

[skipclone 1]

On average, a so-so guitar with a recognized name will hold more of that kind of value than a great guitar that people are unfamiliar with.

[miroslav]

Any guitar that you enjoy playing...that sounds good to you...

...will hold it's value for as long as you have it.

 

You always have to ask yourself if you are buying a guitar to keep...or because you plan on selling at a profit.

I think too much is made out of how much a guitar will be worth over time.

Heck...if you never sell it...it will be worth exactly what you originally paid for it...and not a penny more.

 

[otherstar]

Exactly. I'm fortunate enough to have a 62 reissue Strat that I got as a graduation presesnt for myself in 1989 with money I made bagging groceries. I think it's worth more now than what I paid for it. I didn't buy it with that in mind (if so I would have taken better care of it, some of the finish is wearing off), I got it because I liked the fretboard and the tone better than the Standard Strat I also played that day.

 

I could have purchased an older Les Paul (I don't recall the year, I wasn't really into LP's then because I was listening to Clapton, Hendrix and SRV most of the time then) for less than I paid for the Strat. In hindsight, that might have been the better investmnet, but the Strat has served me well since I've had it and I still love the versatility of that guitar and the way it suits my playing.

 

Just goes to show you that what's really important is getting a guitar you like, and that suits what you play. If you can afford multiple guitars, go for it. I have several cheaper guitars (Epiphone, Peavey, Samick) that all sound great to me and I don't care if they will appreciate. I appreciate them plenty! haha

[Zuben]

I have a 1963 Tele I bought for $40 at a pawn shop in 67? It was trashed. Someone rerouted it to fit a Gibson humbucker (no idea what model as I removed and tossed it.

 

Picked up approriate pickups from my dealer, a new pickguard with some woodworking to fill in the routing.

 

Played it until I had to rebuild it again. It is beat up, rode hard and put away wet.

 

It is not pretty but I have been offered $5k for it sight unseen by serious buyers.

 

Peace

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Is there such an animal? A guitar that pretty much holds its value or appreciates? Speaking of guitars you can play regularly, not some collector's item. I speak of acoustics but electrics, as well.

 

Do you know of a general key to buy guitars that hold value?

 

I think ebay has increased guitar value. Seems to me, I regularly see people pay more than they should.

 

You're asking for two different things. You've -always- been able to pay Gibson/Fender/Gretsch/Ric/etc prices and get a good guitar that has a steady, slow rise in value. But so many guys want to cheap out, and make rationalizations as to why the guitar that they really wanted wasn't worth what people were asking. So they buy lesser brands, and few lesser brands continue to gain value in the market, with rare exception.

 

As to ebay, it has done two things... opened up the market to a much wider audience (meaning that no longer can the guitar stores rule the used market and get the cherry pieces for their own collections while ripping off sellers and buyers...), and it has also fostered an atmosphere of ignorance, causing the prices of lesser guitars to rise dramatically while better/more rare instruments go begging for buyers. So that is a double edged sword. I really hate to see guys parttting out guitars as pieces, but it happens all the time, sinbce they can get more for the Fender neck plate than they can get for some vintage Fender guitars.

 

Bill

[Dr. Ellwood]

+1 Bill, and the idea of some one getting ripped off? I don't agree with that. There is no rip off at all, there is asking price, the price a buyer is willing to pay, that's it really. If a buyer does not know what the price should be then shame on them.

[miroslav]

So they buy lesser brands, and few lesser brands continue to gain value in the market, with rare exception.

 

But...there are also many more brands of electric guitar now than there were when Fender/Gibson were kinda' the "only show in town".

 

I'm sure if there were as many brands back in the 50s/60s/70s....as there are today, many of the now highly sought after Fenders/Gibsons (and whatever)...

well, they would not be so highly sought after.

 

Lets face it...even though some of them are now collectors items (only because they were made 30-40-50 years ago)...a lot of those guitars were actually quite crappy at the time (and still now).

There is this myth that ALL those guitars from the 50s/60/70s were somehow WAY better quality than what is available today...

...and I just disagree.

 

I've played a lot of those now high-priced "vintage" guitars before they became vintage...and many of were nothing to rave about back then. Of course now, some people act like they found the holly grail when they have ANYTHING that is more than 30 years old. :grin:

 

The manufacturing quality of many guitar brands to day is WAY better than it ever was. And yeah...there are also many more cheaply made guitars too...but that's why you can get a pretty playable "cheap" guitar for $150 today.

You could not do that awhile back.

And yeah...there are also guitars made today (just like way back) that are/were truly works of art.and worth the higher process.

But let's not elevate EVERYTHING "vintage" to some higher quality standard JUST because it is "vintage"...just because it is old.

 

I am actually quite amazed at the number of excellent and quite stunning guitars that are available todayat prices that most people find reasonable.

And I just couldnt see running out and dropping $3k on a new Gibsonwhen I can find as-good a guitar of another brand for $500-$800.

 

[Dr. Ellwood]

Well yet another complete disagreement here. I have allot of old Fender, Gibson, Gretsch instuments, and there simply are none of them that have poor build quality. I defy anyone to find poor build quality in any of them. To say new guitars are more playable or sound better is just not true. I have high quality newer guitars here and although they are great instruments, I sure cannot say they are better than my older ones because they are not. My older ones are worth more money because of vintage status, that's just the way the market works.

[Shoes]

It's a very personal thing now isn't it.

 

There were lots of Japanese guitars being made 30+ years ago that were exceptionally well made and I had the pleasure of owning and playing them.

 

They are, in my estimation, representative of an entire market that's quite unappreciated and on the verge of establishing fertile territory for both collectors and players. The finer issues of electronics and machining were typically their soft points but the basic workmanship was very playable and decorative.

 

Today the major manufacturers have bought into these streams by planting themselves on the banks with MIJ, MIK & MIM models. These will perhaps achieve similar rank but until then I'd personally lean towards those initial "illegal" copies or far off outlandish ideas they came up with as an alternative to presently hyped products.

 

It's only fair to say that guitars are made as well or perhaps better today by far more companies than before because manufacturing techniques are common knowledge worldwide. Parker, PRS, Taylor, McInturff

 

Recognize the few minor players who were doing great work in the past. These are items of great interest to me currently and I'd like to find and play more of them.

 

 

[Strategery]

Acoustics....Martin, Taylor, etc.

 

Electrics....Gibson, Fender, Gretsch, Paul Reed Smith, G&L...etc.

 

I'll hunt down some more.

[miroslav]

Well yet another complete disagreement here. I have allot of old Fender, Gibson, Gretsch instuments, and there simply are none of them that have poor build quality. I defy anyone to find poor build quality in any of them.

 

No need to take it personally, Lee...no one said anything about YOUR guitars.

 

To say new guitars are more playable or sound better is just not true. I have high quality newer guitars here and although they are great instruments, I sure cannot say they are better than my older ones because they are not.

 

Not sure where it was said that newer guitars are better and more playable than old ones....?

What was said was that old guitars don't have the market cornered on quality and playability. Many new guitars are AS playable and have equal qualitythey just dont have the vintage statuscuz they are new.

 

And yes...there were some old "name brand" guitars that had issues.

Lousy necks (played like 2x4s)...machine heads that disintegrated after a few years...finishes that ended up cracking and checking extremely....etc...etc.

 

There truly are some great old guitars...and for those people lucky enough to own them...that's great for you.

But I think it's rather inaccurate and misleading to suggest to the younger buyers that unless they buy old and expensive...they will not find great quality and playability in any new guitars.

Value is not just about how much something will fetch if you decide to sell it one dayIMO.

 

 

My older ones are worth more money because of vintage status, that's just the way the market works.

And that's just it.

It's mostly the "vintage" status of many old guitars that makes their value go up so high.

I bet if many of todays guitars were made 50 years ago exactly the same as they are being made today...

...most would also be collectors items now.

 

Fender and Gibson were lucky that they didn't have the same amount of competition back in the 50s/60s/70s as today...because if they did...they would not have attained the same status they now have.

And even today...they are concerned to the point of filing lawsuits to stop competition.

 

I good guitar that you enjoy is all that countsnot the year it was made or the name on the headstock (well, it is to the collectors).

 

[Bejeeber]

There were lots of Japanese guitars being made 30+ years ago that were exceptionally well made.....

 

 

I like hearing that. I have an archtop '70's Howard Roberts "lawsuit model" Ibanez and it is SHWEEEET.

 

( I have done one mod - swapped out the stock pickup for a Bartolini).

 

I doubt that guitar is selling for a whole lot on Ebay but I'm sure it'll continue to rise in value.

 

"Real" Gibson archtops old and new are WAY more expensive of course, so for someone who can't afford a Gib, I think the old 70's lawsuit models are a good bet for holding/appreciating value.

 

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

I'm sure if there were as many brands back in the 50s/60s/70s....as there are today, many of the now highly sought after Fenders/Gibsons (and whatever)...

well, they would not be so highly sought after.

 

There were LOTS and LOTS of guitar companies in the 60s and 70s. If you don't believe me, get ahold of any of the Tony Bacon books.

 

ADDED: I don't know if guitars play better these days, but I'm sure that the number of unplayable guitars has gone way down, mainly due to better quality control. It's harder to find a truly bad guitar. So that's the "bad" side of the bellshaped curve dealt with. I'm not sure if the guitars on the "good" side of the same curve are any more playable than the good guitars of forty years ago.

[miroslav]

I know it wasn't just Fender and Gibson back then...

...but back then, many of the smaller startups were not really in a position to offer up much competition to Fender and Gibson...

...where as today...there are those that can, with exceptional quality at very affordable prices (which is why the lawsuits).

 

And thats why airplay makes music more valid..uhoh.wrong thread.

 

[Dr. Ellwood]

"No need to take it personally, Lee...no one said anything about YOUR guitars"

 

And I didn't think I was? but mine are the only examples of old name brand guitars that I have personal knowledge of, why would I not want to relate to this forum that personal and very accurate opinion? Isn't that what we are SUPPOSED to do in a Forum? or do we make statements based on vague innuendo.

[Hardtail]

...where as today...there are those that can, with exceptional quality at very affordable prices (which is why the lawsuits).

 

Are you sure about that? I see lots of American guitars that stand the test of time but haven't seen any "offshore" ones that have.

 

Only time will tell, I suppose.

[miroslav]

"No need to take it personally, Lee...no one said anything about YOUR guitars"

 

And I didn't think I was? but mine are the only examples of old name brand guitars that I have personal knowledge of, why would I not want to relate to this forum that personal and very accurate opinion? Isn't that what we are SUPPOSED to do in a Forum? or do we make statements based on vague innuendo.

 

I guess you're not in a "fun" mood today...

 

We were talking about guitars in general of the last 60 years.

Sure...none of us here have owned every guitar ever made...so yeah, we have mostly our own to use as an example...BUT...we also have the indirect knowledge from other people's stories we've heard and/or having seen/tried their guitars over the years.

At least I have...and I'm sure you've had more than just YOUR guitars to experience over the years.

 

Not sure what "vague innuendo" you are referring to?

 

Againnot all the Fenders/Gibsons ever made back in the daywere jewels of quality and playability.

Though sure, even the ones that were not so great will still fetch top dollar today from collectorsmostly because of their vintage status.

Why else would people pay thousands for a beat up, broken down Fender Strat (or whatever)? Heckthey sure are not getting any quality or playability thereare they?

 

And will todays newer brands ever have the same vintage status in the coming years? I seriously doubt it.

Why, because there are just TOO MANY out there now.

Sothe only ones fetching collectors prices will always be the some ones from those certain periods of timesbecause of their vintage status and because they existed when much of the sound of R&R was first created.

People will pay a LOT.in an attempt to buy vibe.

 

The reality is that when you close your eyes and hear a guitar

NO ONE ON THE PLANET could tell (in the majority of cases) if its a real 57 Strator a 2007 Stratand in many cases, it may not even be a 2007 Stratbut some knockoff. :grin:

 

So, if we are just debating the value of vintage guitar collectingthats one thing. Some people like to do thatand thats not much different than collecting old stamps. If you like old stamps and dont mind paying nose-bleed prices for themthen enjoy.

But as far as quality and playability of guitarsthere are plenty great ones from yesteryear right on up to todayand yeah, it may bug some people here, but many of the new quality guitars are coming from China/Korea/Japanand THAT is just the way it is. Nothing we say here will change thatwill it?

 

The only point Ive been trying to make is that for newer players who are not sure about what to buy or how much to spendits misleading to tell them they can only find quality and playability in old guitars from the 50s/60/70s.

Nowif some of them asked which guitars will fetch the most money at an auctionthen yeahgo for the 50s/60s/70s stuff and you wont go wrong there.

 

The original poster asked about guitars (within reason)

And I think there are MANY within a reasonable price range (under $1k) that will have excellent quality and playabilityand if you hold on to that guitar for many, many yearsthen YESit WILL hold its valuefor YOU!

 

Shit...50 years from now...when the distance from the 50s/60s/70s has grown even more...what will all the new guitar players have to do to buy one of those "jewels" from the past...

...hold up a bank to afford the ridiculous collectors prices...?

Nope...they will be buying many of the new models of their time, or maybe, they'll be buying some of todays stock under the guise of "newer vintage"....or "Asian vintage".....

 

If a guitar brings you pleasureand you love playing it and hearing its tone, then thats all the value anyone needsIMO

unless you are a speculator/collector.

[Trucks]

FFS Miro, we all know things were much better in the old days.

 

 

 

 

 

:grin:

[miroslav]

Yeah...maybe you're right Trucks!

 

Hey...how's life? Are you settled in?

[Dr. Ellwood]

FFS Miro, we all know things were much better in the old days.

 

Cheap shot, but that's really ok, how would you know one way or the other? The original poster asked the question what guitars would have some appreciation, I said Fender, Gibson and PRS, their high line instruments, where did I give him bad advise? How much appreciation in value will his new Yamaha gain? how about NONE, playability yes, appreciation no. If the original poster would have not included appreciation, this conversation would not have happened.

 

 

 

 

 

:grin:

[Trucks]

Cheap shot? Erm... Whatever you say chief.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Yep I did and it was...but it's still ok

[Trucks]

Ok....

[Dr. Ellwood]

OK, anyways take a look at the other thread where you are talking about Cambridge and equipment.

[Hardtail]

You're asking for two different things. You've -always- been able to pay Gibson/Fender/Gretsch/Ric/etc prices and get a good guitar that has a steady, slow rise in value. But so many guys want to cheap out, and make rationalizations as to why the guitar that they really wanted wasn't worth what people were asking. So they buy lesser brands, and few lesser brands continue to gain value in the market, with rare exception.

 

[miroslav]

Lee,

The original posters topic:

 

Guitars (within reason) that hold / appreciate

 

And then he said:

 

A guitar that pretty much holds its value or appreciates? Speaking of guitars you can play regularly, not some collector's item.

 

And with that in mindI think there is a MUCH wider selection than just older (or newer) Fender, Gibson, PRS and Gretsch guitars!

 

 

What I dont agree with is this notion that only older, specific name brand guitars have quality and playabilityand that only they will hold their value over time.

Nope...there are many other guitars out there that will hold their value.

 

As far as appreciate in valuewell, if you are talking about collector level appreciation in valuethats a whole other discussion.

 

Besides...a guitar only has monetary value when you buy it...and when you sell it.

Since I mostly buy guitars for their quality and playability...and not for their resale value..."value" becomes a rather relative thing.

 

I dont argue the point that there are great old guitars...but to say that nothing made today is as good as any vintage guitarwell, thats just a bit of hype and propaganda.

I found that I can buy really excellent quality/playability newer model guitars for a LOT less moneyand then use all my $aving$ for other/additional audio toys!

And yes Lee, Ive had my hands on a lot of the vintage guitarsand on most accounts I could never see what the fuss was all about (with occasional exceptions)other than the fact it was an old/vintage guitar.

 

To have the younger/newer buyers feeling left out just cuz they cant afford to drop $3k on a guitaris not right.

Im not talking about telling anyone to get those $150 guitars (though many are quite playable, just not excellent)but these daysin the $500 - $1k rangethere are a lot of unbelievable quality guitars available, that IMOrival some of the $3k guitars without a problem

its just that they dont have the Fender, Gibson, Gretsch name on the headstock

[Dr. Ellwood]

"Besides...a guitar only has monetary value when you buy it...and when you sell it.

Since I mostly buy guitars for their quality and playability...and not for their resale value..."value" becomes a rather relative thing."

 

It's not a relative thing when for instance, they are stolen,or are burnt up in a house fire..then the low budget guitars are worth less than they where new and are prorated accordingly. The book value of quality vintage or quality newish guitars eg. PRS.. are replaced according to their appreciated value in the open market.

 

 

[miroslav]

OK...that's a good point as far as vintage/collectibles go.

 

But with all of my gear...it's covered based on its value...and that includes replacement value.

So...if one of my new Artcore guitars was stolen...I would get the replacement value...that is, whatever another new one would cost.

And for me...that's fair enough, as I would get back a guitar of equal value.

But yeah...if you drop $10k on a vintage piece, and hold on to it for 10 years before it's stolen...then it's all about guesstimating what its value would be after those 10 years.

It's a lot of speculation.

 

It's much easier to replace newer, non-vintage stuff...as it's still made today.

 

I know you have some collector's items...and you have to worry about that kind of stuff.

I really love that Sig LP you recently got...mostly because it is a very unique guitar.

The typical LPs/Strats/Teles...well...I don't get as excited about themeven if they are old.