Bass Bias

[cblinkdude182]

When I first started playing I noticed that I was comparing myself to my fellow guitar players in my band and saying to myself that guitar is so much cooler than bass. People began to rag on me about how I got it easy and that I probably suck at "Real" guitar. Anyways I got better and better and people started to recognize my talent and now I seem to have attracted quite a few people to playing bass. A question I get often from newbies is "Whats harder bass or guitar?" and to be honest I don't know what to say... But the real point of this story is to express how I have noticed that since I have gotten better I really choose music on the basis of the bass in the band. I seem to shy away from Heavy Metal and Punk and tend to be drawn towards funky rock and such... Anyone else feel the same?

[Paul K]

Regarding which is easier: For simple rock and roll and blues (as opposed to more complex versions) Methinks it's easier to play an acceptable bass than guitar. After you get past the basics of the above, they're kind of just different. And knowledge/ability of one tends to compliment the other. Co-joined twins. Kind of freaky.

[jeremy c]

Just tell everyone that bass and guitar are both incredibly easy instruments and that is why there are ten million rock bands out there. Then ask them when their cd is coming out.

 

Finally ask them why don't they play a difficult instrument like the French horn or the Sitar?

[thabottomend]

Or you could say "Anyone can play the notes, but not everyone can play the song." Then ask them when their CD is coming out, and how the tour is shaping up. Then beat them over the head with a Chapman stick.

[Eric VB]

"Real" guitar is played by real musicians that don't care what you're holding in your hands as long as you're making good music.

 

Bass is easier ... if you want to find a band to join. Everyone is a guitar player trying to start his own band, but few are bass players.

 

I play both, actually. Bass is my primary instrument; I'm a bassist first. It's easier for me to play rhythm guitar (i.e. strum chords) or lead guitar (i.e. layout during the vocals) if I'm going to sing lead. It's a lot harder doing the Geddy Lee thing, IMO, which is why Amy is so my hero. (She sings lead and plays bass in her duo Clatter.)

 

There are also quite a few solo bass players here, like Steve Lawson. The hardest thing about "solo bass" is playing musically. I think Steve does a wonderful job at that!

 

And there are all sorts of ensemble players here. They don't seek the spotlight. It's like that commercial: they don't make the music, they make the music you hear better. This can be done in a very subtle way, but take it away and the listener can tell something is missing, something is lacking. They take pride in "standing in the shadows".

 

 

Bass usually plays the bass role in an ensemble, since it is usually the lowest-pitched instrument in the group. Bass can also take on a lead role, like Flea from RHCP or John Entwistle from The Who. In those bands the guitarist plays mostly rhythm guitar (at least from what I've heard).

 

When it comes to melody on bass, there are two stumbling blocks. First, most bassists are not well versed in melodies because 99.9999% of the time we're playing the bass role, not melody. Second, when the bassist solos (i.e. plays a melody) in an ensemble, who is able to play the bass role?

 

A lot of times everyone else in the band except for maybe the drummer drops out for a bass solo. However, part of the reason that soaring guitar solo sounds so great is because of everyone else (including the bassist) lending support. When's the last time you saw everyone in a band stop playing for the guitar solo? Or just guitar solo over drums? Try it some time and see how lame it sounds.

 

Bass is no longer just acoustic URB with no amplification that the audience can barely hear. There's no need for the rest of the band to stop playing. They may need to change what they're playing, though. Jangly Motown chords -- especially percussive chords on the backbeats -- leave lots of sonic space for bass. Highly distorted power chords on 7-string guitar cover up bass. If the 7-string guitarist wants to play a bass role, that's fine (but dial back on the distortion); it kind of forces the bassist into the upper register, but there's still plenty of room even on a 4-string. (In a similar way you can have two bassists in the same band: one plays "bass" and one plays "lead".)

 

 

So the hardest thing is to be a musician. But that's only hard for people that are two self-centered to realize that it's not about them, it's about the music.

[Bottomgottem]

Nice post RicBassGuy.

 

While admitting that I'm not very well versed in the genre, I can't think of a Punk Rock bassist whose talent really stands out.

 

There are, however, quite a few stand-outs in Heavy Metal/Hard Rock bass. Steve Harris of Iron Maiden is one. Billy Sheehan (Talas, David Lee Roth, Mr. Big, Niacin) is another. John Paul Jones (Led Zeppelin) was the grand-daddy, pioneer, ground zero, grand poo bah of the whole thing (IMHO).

 

I became a bassist because you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a guitarist or drummist around here. There was a void to fill, and it is easy to become an "acceptable" bass player. Those guys inspired me to play more musically and use the instrument as more than just a bridge between the drums and guitar.

 

Banjo is harder.

 

 

[Gruuve]

Well said, comrades. Out of all the instruments you normally see in, say, a beginner rock band, punk band, etc., I'd say bass is probably the easiest to become proficient enough on to actually play with someone else. (But, then...how hard is it to just bang out power chords? Not very.)

 

I think mastering all the subtle stuff with bass is not at all easy, and will take most people many, many years.

 

Dave

 

[jeremy c]

While admitting that I'm not very well versed in the genre, I can't think of a Punk Rock bassist whose talent really stands out.

Listen to Matt Freeman of Rancid.

[Bottomgottem]

While admitting that I'm not very well versed in the genre, I can't think of a Punk Rock bassist whose talent really stands out.

Listen to Matt Freeman of Rancid.

 

O.K. I will do that as soon as I get home. (I think that Jeremy is about to take me to Punk school.)

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

While admitting that I'm not very well versed in the genre, I can't think of a Punk Rock bassist whose talent really stands out.

 

Well, have a listen to the Clash's London Calling then. Simonon (sp?) plays really well on that one.

 

What's harder to play? Guitar or bass? Well, I think that bass is easier to learn. BUT... because you play less, you have to be better at it.

 

A guitar player can shred their way out of trouble and even impress some people. There's always somebody that'll be impressed by lots of notes A bass player, however, has to have feel and be in the pocket and so on. Simpler stuff, but it has to be well done.

[Davo-London]

Also JJ Burrell from the Stranglers.

 

I haven't been looked down on for playing bass for some time by fellow guitarists. But I would agree that in conversation with non-musicians there is a tendency to undervalue the role of bass. But, that's OK we don't want everyone to know that we have the most fun! Along with the drummer of course:)

 

Davo

[yourlord]

I have a simple challenge for any guitarist that looks down on me for playing bass. I hand them my bass and tell them to make it sound as good as I do. None ever have.

 

It's a common misconception that bass is easier to learn/play than guitar.

 

It's easy to learn how to pick it up and hammer out sloppy root notes to some crap song (someone posted a video recently which is a prime example). Likewise it's just as easy to pick up a guitar and hammer out sloppy power chords.

 

Being a good bass or guitar player is more than just hammering strings with your fingers on the board in approximately the right place. It's about caressing the tone you want out of the instrument. It's quite scary to listen to a guitar player on a bass, then myself playing it right afterward. They tend to beat the crap out of the strings or pick way too hard (only on someone else's basses, picks are not allowed on mine). When I start playing, the sound level is automatically half as loud. Where the notes they play are loud clacking abominations, the notes I play are soft, smooth, and warm.

 

Dynamics are a big part of what makes a good bass player. Any monkey can beat on some strings.

 

A lot of people will claim bass is easier because it has only 4 strings (this idea goes right out the window anyway when you consider 6 string basses). I feel it makes it even harder to play with only 4 strings as I actually have to change hand position to play higher notes where a guitar player wouldn't (I love doing this, really makes you look like you're awesome jumping all over the neck, especially fretless).

 

Another thing that contributes to this myth is the fact most people don't think you can play chords on bass as most bass players don't go there.

 

Nothing is quite as painful as watching/hearing my guitarists trying to play one of my basses.

 

Except me playing a guitar.

[The Bear Jew]

There's an art to playing any instrument.

 

People who do not understand this are either not musicians... or very dumb musicians.

 

But really, I don't care if anyone thinks my job in the band is easy as long as they pay to get into the show.

 

In truth, I WANT my bass lines to be easy for me to play (i.e. well within my skill range) so that I can play with total confidence. Anyway, I don't play to be noticed for my musical virtuousity. I get enough attention because I'm dead sexxay, so I just want the whole band to sound good.

 

BTW, some guitarists are pretty good at playing bass, like Walter Becker of Steely Dan. And Jimi Hendrix. And some others.

 

[yourlord]

In truth, I WANT my bass lines to be easy for me to play (i.e. well within my skill range) so that I can play with total confidence.

 

I want mine to be simple to me as well. I want my skill level to be high enough that no matter the song it will be simple. That's an unobtainable goal really, so I have a constant motivation

 

 

BTW, some guitarists are pretty good at playing bass, like Walter Becker of Steely Dan. And Jimi Hendrix. And some others.

 

Of this I have no doubt, I've just never met one.

[The Bear Jew]

Musical artists who really get the picture aren't necessarily defined or limited to the instrument they happen to be weilding at any given time--they're musicians.

 

Of this I have no doubt, I've just never met one.

 

Pleased to meet you.

 

I've played guitar and bass for about 20 years, with the first 10 of these primarily focused on guitar.

[Phil W]

Instruments are just tools. Artists don't argue about which brushes are easier to paint with do they? Actually, they probably do. I went to a Chuck Rainey clinic recently and he stated that bass guitar was the easiest instrument to 'play'. Tuned as it is and fretted - bass is probably the easiest to play notes on and apply scales, chords etc. to all keys. That doesn't mean it's the easiest instrument to create music with - I'm guessing that part is actually quite hard. Otherwise Chuck wouldn't have got so much work. There are a lot of subleties involved. Then again there is the duality of [1] the fretted bass as an instrument with which to create music (relatively easy if you don't care too much about the quality - but incredibly difficult if you want people to listen to it and enjoy it); [2] the bass function in music which is one of those complex things that looks incredibly simpole but isn't.

 

[Rocky McDougall]

A good comeback just came to my mind. When asked, just say, "For every great Bass Player, there are 100 Great G****r players.

[Trill]

A good comeback just came to my mind. When asked, just say, "For every great Bass Player, there are 100 Great G****r players.

 

Very true, and for every bad bass player there are 100 bad guitarist :grin:

[yourlord]

Musical artists who really get the picture aren't necessarily defined or limited to the instrument they happen to be weilding at any given time--they're musicians.

 

I know where the notes are on the fingerboard of a guitar, and on a keyboard. But, I focus my energy on the bass, and nothing else. It's the instrument I love. It's the instrument that convinced me to dedicate the rest of my life to it. I tried several others, but none of them hooked me like the bass did. I have no real desire to play any other instrument. I guess that means I don't get the picture

 

 

Of this I have no doubt, I've just never met one.

 

Pleased to meet you.

 

I've never met one personally, and that's where I was aiming that comment. Besides, that whole argument obviously wouldn't apply to someone who pursues both instruments.

 

 

 

There are some people who are naturally gifted at music of course. I had a friend about 10 years ago who was on the level of John Petrucci and Joe Satriani after only playing guitar for less than a year. He was truly scary. Almost like a savant but without the other issues. You could play him a song, no matter how complex, and he could pick up the guitar and play it note for note, with every dynamic virtually identical.

 

He wasn't as good at bass as me, but I would bet given a few months to work out some technique he could make me look stupid, even with my 15 years advantage on him.

 

But, even he was not able to sound as good as me when handed a bass. He would need some time to acclimate before he could make me look bad. Though I would say he was better out of the starting gates than a lot of people are well into their playing careers.

 

 

 

 

[Eric VB]

To plagiarize PhilW's analogy, let's look at traditional animation technique. Somebody (or "somebodies") draws the main character. Somebody/"somebodies" else draws the background. It takes a whole team of animators to make the film.

 

Is it easier to do backgrounds than character expressions? Does it matter? What would the animation look like with no backgrounds? If the characters were simple outline drawings and weren't painted in? What if the voices and sounds weren't there?

 

The character animation may have all the complex motion, but without support it is a hollow performance.

 

And vice versa. Beautiful backgrounds and sound aren't much of a performance without any characters.

 

But put it all together and you've got a great animated film. And it's the film as a whole that the audience comes to see.

[mcbn]

While admitting that I'm not very well versed in the genre, I can't think of a Punk Rock bassist whose talent really stands out.

Listen to Matt Freeman of Rancid.

 

O.K. I will do that as soon as I get home. (I think that Jeremy is about to take me to Punk school.)

 

Jeremy is just singing the praises of one of his students. I say he is biased.

 

I also really dig Rancid.

[Bottomgottem]

While admitting that I'm not very well versed in the genre, I can't think of a Punk Rock bassist whose talent really stands out.

Listen to Matt Freeman of Rancid.

 

O.K. I will do that as soon as I get home. (I think that Jeremy is about to take me to Punk school.)

 

Jeremy is just singing the praises of one of his students. I say he is biased.

 

I also really dig Rancid.

 

I PM'd Jeremy after I gave Rancid a good going over. Freeman is the real deal. Mr. Cohen has every right to brag on him. There is some bright, intelligent, and tasty bassing on those albums.

[mcbn]

I wasn't taking a dig at JC, quite the opposite really.

 

There are a lot of people on the forum who haven't been around all that long. I was just handing out a tidbit of info.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

In truth, I WANT my bass lines to be easy for me to play (i.e. well within my skill range) so that I can play with total confidence.

 

I'm the opposite. I always try to make my basslines "push" me a little bit. I try and explore some area in which I'm not very proficient. I sort of look upon them as "etudes"

[yourlord]

In truth, I WANT my bass lines to be easy for me to play (i.e. well within my skill range) so that I can play with total confidence.

 

I'm the opposite. I always try to make my basslines "push" me a little bit. I try and explore some area in which I'm not very proficient. I sort of look upon them as "etudes"

 

I feel the same way. This is what I was trying to convey with an earlier post but you said it better. If I'm not sweating it and pushing the envelope of my abilities I don't feel like I'm giving the audience (be it me or many) my best.

 

I'm not saying you have to be screaming mad licks all the way through the song, but if you could almost play your part while sleeping just to be safe you're not doing you or your audience any services.

 

I'm not saying this is Erik at all. I'm sure his lines push the envelope but the sexxxaaayy factor lets him pull it off looking easy.

 

 

[The Bear Jew]

Nope, you got me right--I don't think anything I do as a bassist (or as a musician in general) within the context of songs pushes any kinds of envelopes for me.

 

I'm not saying my parts might not be challenging to someone else in a technical way, but they're not hard for me to play, and that's the way I like it. That's because I practice everything until it's not difficult for me to do at all. If I have to sweat when it's time to play something "for real," that means I don't have the part down pat. It means there's a chance I could drop the ball and make a mistake while tracking or performing, and that will never do as far as I am concerned.

 

Anything that is so technically difficult to execute that I can't nail it every single time with ease is for practice and self-development. It won't go into songs or live performances until it's easy for me to play.

 

Luckily, I just happen to be so dead-frickin' sexxaay that it trumps anything anyone could ever play by a long shot.

 

[BenLoy]

Bass is easy. The hard instruments are the ones where you have to practice for at least a year just to be able to play a single note that doesn't sound horrible. Guitar? Easy. Drums? Hard. Bass? Easy. Violin? Hard.

 

None of that matters when you get to a certain level, though. Music isn't about the technical matter of playing your instrument, it's about the feeling you create by stringing notes together in some kind of rhythm with some kind of dynamic and some kind of tonality that imparts some kind of impression on the listener.