Extra frets .. in the other direction

[ForkofTuning]

Hypothetical question

 

why do people always add the extra frets (24) to complete the octave in the direction of the bridge, but never extend the frets slightly higher near the headstock? Since a lot of genres seem obsessed with downtuning and heavier sounds im curious. I stumbled upon a guitar with 2 extra frets added on the low e string (only that string) at the esp japan custom page but made me curious. Not sure if it was a cosmetic or usable 2 extra notes.

 

http://www.espguitars.co.jp/artist/char/funichar.jpg

http://www.espguitars.co.jp/artist/char/head1.jpg

[Billster]

I think it would have to do with the reaches involved with a longer neck. The distance between frets on a longer neck would make teh reaches more difficult.

 

Of course there's always baritone guitars. Where's Wendler?

 

That's pretty wild that neck there

http://www.espguitars.co.jp/artist/char/funichar.jpg

[Eric VB]

I'd guess the guitar posted just has the extra 2 frets to facilitate a quick drop-D tuning. Looks like the little brass gizmo acts like a single-string capo bringing you back to standard tuning rather painlessly.

 

But just get a harp sympitar, like this 39-string number.

http://www.beyondthetrees.com/NDfront.JPG

Notice how the bass string frets and guitar frets line up, but some bass strings continue past the guitar neck nut to achieve a greater scale length.

 

Look up the scale lengths for guitar and bass. What you're really asking for is a bass-scale guitar. Stanley Clarke is fairly well known for playing piccolo bass. Just add two more strings and call it a guitar.

 

Or as Bill points out, you don't have to go all the way to bass scale and settle for a baritone guitar.

[A String]

That's wild! Any idea how the extra frets work? Are they playable, what is the tuning etc.

[Eric VB]

That's wild! Any idea how the extra frets work? Are they playable, what is the tuning etc.

If you go through the main website http://www.beyondthetrees.com/ there are links to "text" about each instrument in the gallery, but the text link for this model is broken. Looking at another model's link, though, I think he explains that the bass strings aren't played by fretting. If you look closely you'll see little one-string capos on those strings. So it plays more like a lute with fixed-tuning on the bass strings. You just move those little capos around to set up the tuning prior to a song.

 

The harp side is tuned in half steps, IIRC. And I don't know what the sympathetic strings are tuned to.

[Corner Pocket]

Not new

 

http://www.joellabasses.com/shopexd.asp?id=82

 

 

[A String]

What I'd really like is one of those:

http://www.beyondthetrees.com/NDfront.JPG

 

Man, so many strings, so much more stuff to learn!

[fantasticsound]

Actually, this is old news...

 

Several bass guitars have had extra frets on the low E string going back 20+ years. There's one in particular I always wanted, but I haven't thought about it in years and can't remember the name. Every one of their basses had two extra frets and a spring loaded piece for normal use of the E string at the fret that took place of the nut. If I recall correctly, the bass featured a near headless design utilizing a different ball end connection than a Steinberger. They may have licensed the Steinberger bridge, however.

 

Here's a classical guitar built with extra frets on the headstock side...

 

http://cambium.com/matthewgrasso/images/image%20-%20guitar%20-%20upright.jpg

http://cambium.com/matthewgrasso/images/image%20-%20guitar%20-%20extra%20frets%20nut.jpg

 

 

[Gifthorse]

Its a cool idea, seems like you could rig it so the extra fret or frets could be scalloped or styled as such so you could maybe emulate pedal steel licks. You know I think Jerry Donahue may have something like that.

 

Anything do do some ghostly bends is ok with me.

[Gifthorse]

like a fret or 2 behind the nut

[Guitarzan]

Steinberger was making a guitar with the added scale length that was basically extra frets. there was a rolling "capo" that served the purpose of letting you play in standard pitch or extending the scale lower by adding the extra frets.

[skipclone 1]

About your guitar there-from the address it looks like an artist model, ESP does a ton of those out here. Char is a pretty well-known Japanese guitarist, in fact someone who knows him directed me to a place in Tokyo to get a setup done. That person is/was a forum member, hasn`t been around lately.

The one I would really like, unfortunately I haven`t been able to find them on the Net, is Dragonfly. They have an extended-scale guitar that has five extra frets across the board, plays really great too.

[ForkofTuning]

I'm in Japan too Whenever I need anything done I just goto ochanomizu since there are atleast 10 medium-large guitar stores on the same street.

[skipclone 1]

Yeah Ochanomizu is great, I drop in there pretty regularly too (I really shouldn`t take my credit card though). Shibuya has some nice shops also, especially Ikebe. They deal mostly in more expensive stuff but it`s good for straps, cables, strings and drooling on the floor. I have also discovered the Fujigen shop, nice house-made guitars. I may swap my cheapo out for one later.

As I`ve mentioned before though, getting a decent setup is virtually impossible here, I`ll take U.S. guitar techs any day of the week.

[fantasticsound]

Its a cool idea, seems like you could rig it so the extra fret or frets could be scalloped or styled as such so you could maybe emulate pedal steel licks. You know I think Jerry Donahue may have something like that.

 

Anything do do some ghostly bends is ok with me.

 

I can't say with authority that Jerry Donahue doesn't have a guitar with extra frets behind the nut, but I highly doubt it, Gifthorse.

 

Jerry makes those steel-like ghost bends by placing his finger on the string behind the nut and pressing down. No fret necessary.

[Danzilla]

Actually, this is old news...

 

Several bass guitars have had extra frets on the low E string going back 20+ years. There's one in particular I always wanted, but I haven't thought about it in years and can't remember the name. Every one of their basses had two extra frets and a spring loaded piece for normal use of the E string at the fret that took place of the nut. If I recall correctly, the bass featured a near headless design utilizing a different ball end connection than a Steinberger. They may have licensed the Steinberger bridge, however.

 

Ah, The Kubicki X-Factor! I've enjoyed the few times I've played them in a shop, and would consider that one of the few 4-string basses I'm still interested in getting some time.

 

http://www.kubicki.com/images/exfactorAdnew.jpg

http://www.kubicki.com/images/exlever.jpg

 

The bridge is not the same as a Steinberger; similar tuners, but the "saddles" are completey different.

 

I also remember Yamaha having a guitar that had an extended scale with 24 frets and was tuned to D; possibly made for Ty Tabor? I'm pretty sure I saw one at MARS when they were in business.

[fantasticsound]

Thanks, Danzilla!! I could not, for the life of me, remember the name of manufacturer!

 

I loved those Kubickis. I only wish I could afford one 20 years ago.

[skipclone 1]

ForkofTuning-

This year the Tokyo Music Instrument Fair is coming back, if you haven`t been there it`s an absolute must. Not sure of the location yet but I`ll keep you posted.

Oh cool-I just checked, the info`s already up. 11/1-11/4, Pacifico Yokohama.

[dave251]

Of course there's always baritone guitars. Where's Wendler?

 

 

Huh...what....ok...here I ammmmm......

 

Adding frets....

 

For a given scale length( ie, 25.5" for a Fender, or 24.625"...a typical Les Paul, etc...) you need to add frets at the top of the neck. This will keep the scale length the same.

 

When you add frets at the nut, you are extending the scale length....There's a forumula you have to use at either end, but, extending the scale at the nut end is more problematic.

 

ALL FRETTED INSTRUMENTS start out on the drawing board with the nut as the "zero" position, ie, all measurements must be taken from the position of the nut. Once you have that established, the BRIDGE location becomes your location source for all other measurements. So essentially, the SCALE LENGTH is the primary dimension of the instrument. So it follows that ANY ALTERATION of the scale basically means all the other dimensions of the instrument must either (a)be altered... or (b)the new neck has to have major dimensional changes, so the bridge can be kept in the same location.

 

An extended low note has been common, most particularly on string bass designs, for many many years. This effectively changes the scale length of the lowest string/strings.