Laptop gigging, any words of advice?

[Clifton]

Gig on saturday, gonna whip out the laptop for the first time, I don't know WHAT to expect.

 

Any words of advice/caution?

[yannis D]

Nothing, it you set it up properly. It's better to have with you a electricity stabilizer and a hardware back up

[raddtunes]

Hi Clifton - Do you have any divas on your gig - you're going to have another one Saturday night. Brave. But man read that rider, because if she's not happy, she WON'T perform. My advice is don't do it - but of course don't take my advice! You're the brave one here, so I'd really like your advice.

 

I'm thinking most of us have plug-ins that we'd like to play on a gig. There are lots of other interesting reasons to "laptop gig." I just can't get past relying on the computer in that environment. After Saturday night, would you mind commenting on two questions - -

 

1. Can you see a rig for yourself where the advantages outweigh the risks and pitfalls?

2. If yes - can you see yourself trusting that rig enough so you can forget about it and play?

 

Thanks - and good luck!

Thanks!

 

[dp2]

I second Yannis' advice. Actually, I've had quirkier things to happen with hardware rigs than with computer-based ones while performing.

 

Just make sure that you give yourself enough time to properly set up (both your hardware [boards, etc] and laptop); to perform a soundcheck (both individually and as a group); to use chords that are long enough to reach your laptop and allow you to move about freely while playing; to set you laptop in a nice, safe place (where it won't topple over if a moth were to land upon it), etc.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that many computers (laptops included) have various power-saver features enabled automatically; you'll probably want to disable those while setting up. After all, you don't want your laptop to power down (due to what it thinks is a certain amount of inactivity) while you're in the middle of your most spectacular solo. You can re-enable that feature after your performance is over. Also, make sure to turn off any extra programs that don't need to be running while you're running your music software and performing.

[raddtunes]

Hi DP2 - Very interesting info - I see you're a computer consultant - Would you mind elaborating more on all of this - specifically your rig, mix of hardware/software? Is this our future - are hardware keyboards other than controlers going to go away?

 

I'm also thinking that for some live players, myself included, the ability to arrive early - soundcheck - place the computer in a nice safe place - - vary from venue to venue, and are not be under their control.

 

Thanks!

 

[keysplease]

Gig on saturday, gonna whip out the laptop for the first time, I don't know WHAT to expect.

 

Any words of advice/caution?

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3122/blessingrv7.jpg

[dp2]

I don't think hardware keyboards are going anywhere at least for the time being. Right now, there are far too many musicians who are paranoid about (or simply aren't into) computers. I do believe that the Korg OASYS (which is just as much computer as it is keyboard) is definitely where things are headed in the near term.

 

Now, what do I have? Here's my gear:

Kurzweil 2600XS 88

Korg OASYS 88

Roland KC-550

9 computers (2 Macs, 7 PCs--but not all dedicated soley to music)

Cubase 3

Digital Piano 5

Reason 3

 

I plan to acquire the RMI FireFace 800, Garittan's Jazz and Big Band, and new speakers (I'm teetering between Bose, JVC, and EV) relatively soon. I'm in the process of building my own studio, and I prefer the "soft studio" components to the hardware ones.

[dp2]

The sound check doesn't have to be overly complicated--especially if you gig regularly at the same venue(s). Most sound engineers I know of also record all of the levels to some kind of log/journal, so that they always have an idea of where to start when setting up.

 

Now I have some questions for you. What's it like gigging in Vegas? What kinds of stuff do you play? How do you keep your edge? And do you ever gig in LA (since it's so close by--at least from my perspective)?

[K K]

Any words of advice/caution?

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3122/blessingrv7.jpg

 

:grin:

[bluedad]

hope your gig went well. I've been using a laptop for my gigs the last couple of yrs with no troubles. My main workhorse is a Motif, but I really rely heavily on NI's B4

[delirium]

Any words of advice/caution?

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3122/blessingrv7.jpg

 

:grin:

 

:grin:

yeah, this is exactly what you need with all that sh*t on stage :grin:

[yannis D]

So, how dit it go? Happy? Unhappy? Give us some details about your gigIs wardware the way to go? Give

[yannis D]

Wow, sorry, "cut and paste" problem... it's kind of twisted, but you get the point!

[raddtunes]

Now I have some questions for you. What's it like gigging in Vegas? What kinds of stuff do you play? How do you keep your edge? And do you ever gig in LA (since it's so close by--at least from my perspective)?

 

I'll be happy to oblige- First - thanks for taking time to answer my question. Again it's a topic I'm very interested in - in fact, I wrote in the quesiton to "Ask Mike" that appeared 2-3 months ago about using laptops live. He wrote a fantasic article loaded with details about all of the add-on stuff.

 

I'll cop a plea to 1st degree paranoia, and do the max. But I'm only afraid of the perceived physically fragile computer (PC)and its o.s. (XP - haven't viewed the vista yet). Perhaps as a Mac person, Mike didn't focus in his answer on this - I'm not saying that my PC crashes often, but when it does, it just seems to do so over the most trite of issues. (those mac/pc tv commercials nail it for me!). That PC guy is fine in my studio - can't tell if I want him in my band.

 

Gigging in Vegas:

 

First: To oversimplify: It's quite different than what most musicians - and others - think. Both about the work, and about whether or not we can really play - at all.

 

I got here in 88, and the lounges and showroom work were clearly fading already. There was a strike shortly after I arrived - not at all over the pubicly stated issues - and the leadership of the musicians union reduced it to something much less than what people to this day think it is. (although now there are "broadway" shoes and cirque du soleil shows - these positions are union, so this is changing).

 

However - - I could not imagine a better city in which to be a full-time, professional musician. This is a little oversimplified, but - most of the good work is in the convention areas. Within this realm, I'll play 2-3 nights a week, and do a lot of solo to small group instrumental stuff. This is mostly ambience music for cocktail schmooze and dinner. There are also awards ceremonies, some weddings, and a number of requests for exotic bands. I invent bands here. Some clients dream up some idea in their head for a band- then hire a party planner to go "find" one. It's just going to be us with another name - - and we will nail the music. Overall - musically - - it's a bloody riot.

 

Although there is a small "clique" of us who do most of this work, it's seldom with the exact combination of players, and we seldom play the same songs from night to night. To do this work, you have to be a "tune guy." (My definition: A tune-guy is a man or woman knows hundreds and hundreds of tunes, and can play them by memory.)

 

For your question on what kind of tunes I play, may I refer you to a thread from last week or so - it's titled something like "someone's pushing my envelope" - - and I unloaded my feelings on this, in pretty sharp contrast to what most others had written. Including a Keyboard Mag editor. Yikes. I had hoped for more conversation on this.

 

I have a "day job" as well - I produce jingles and telephone on-hold messages in my private studio, at home. This is full-time, but not nearly as full-time as Linwood, my friend and frequent mentor.

 

Do I gig in LA? A few more times each year I'll do something corporate there. It's close geographically - (sometimes far culturally.) On Friday night I did a 4-piece jazz thing at the Wynn, and we were approached by someone to do a date in LA in May. I consider this a huge compliment and honor. One of my previously mentioned "exotic" bands also has two tentative dates there later this spring.

 

How Do I Keep My Edge? I think Vegas has taught me something very powerful. You CAN pour your love and soul into the music - never be asked to turn down - and make a paying client happy at the same time. It's not comprimise, but a lot of balance.

 

Additionally - this astonishes some people - there are local bars here. (churches, schools, parks, stores etc.) There is one with a house band that plays some very deep funk. I drop in on them with my rig at least twice a month to sit in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

For your question on what kind of tunes I play, may I refer you to a thread from last week or so - it's titled something like "someone's pushing my envelope" - - and I unloaded my feelings on this, in pretty sharp contrast to what most others had written. Including a Keyboard Mag editor. Yikes. I had hoped for more conversation on this.

 

Contrast? Not to derail this thread (perhaps we should take it back to the other one) I didn't think what you said was out of step with what others posted in that topic. I thought you made some good points.

[raddtunes]

quote] Contrast? Not to derail this thread (perhaps we should take it back to the other one) I didn't think what you said was out of step with what others posted in that topic. I thought you made some good points.

 

Hi Joe - and thanks for the kind words. I have some very strong opinions on this topic, and on two other similar occaisions in forums, I've been a little rude - - so, if I wasn't in contrast I was trying to . . uh. . behave this time.

 

In my not-very-humble-at-all opinion, our profession and our employment opportunites have changed because the world changes - fair enough. However, with gigs that are "background music" that "no one is listening" to anyway, I feel that as a group, we, and we alone are killing one of our best oppporunties to keep our profession, music, and frankly our income flowing and growing. I'm no analyst, but the number of gatherings and private events is vast - yet, really, the number of them purchasing ambient music is very small.

 

This is again oversimplified, but if we don't learn to give the few people who do purchase ambient music something very very special, they're NOT going to keep buying it. And all of the advice I remember reading in that thread was directed towards avoiding problems with the client - not actively contributing our very special and powerful gift with them.

 

Strong words - I know! Well - should I/you/we start another thread?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

I don't disagree with you. Like anything, I think it's a balance.

[wd8dky]

I've used a Dell Inspiron 6000 w/2Gb RAM for well over a year, weekly, at church, other sessions, and DJ gigs. I use an RME Hammerfall sound card, and Ableton Live as both a VST Host for a handful of plugins, and for triggering loops and/or whole songs if I'm DJing. The OS is WinXP SP2.

 

I have a very good power conditioner in my rack, and an external backup drive. For short gigs (like church), I use battery power only, which avoids any AC issues. I also have a completely different hardware profile for live playing which basically disables everything inside the computer except that which I absolutely need.

 

I've yet to even have to reboot during a gig, let alone had any serious issues, with close to 100 gigs under my belt. My advice would be to plan your setup carefully, eliminate everything you don't need, and know exactly how everything works before you venture out. You don't want antivirus software popping up, or some Windows update thing, during the middle of a gig.

 

Also, this machine does not, ever, connect to the internet. I've done my installs via CD/DVD, as well as file copying.

 

Good luck. It can be done, and it works well.

[dp2]

Gigging with computers is also helpful if your music incorporates lots of sequenced parts, any video (that needs to be synched with the music), etc.

 

Soft synths can be a nice backup--especially if you're in the middle of one of those Murphy-moments.

 

My wife and I have been to Vegas twice, and we love it. I'm certainly impressed with all of the music going on there. Yes, I heard some "stuff" I'd be hard pressed to call good music, but more often than not I heard some really good stuff--covering genres spanning classical, rock, blues, jazz, etc. I figured you cats had to be "tunes guys", because I could hear how effortlessly the various players, in the shows I attended, switched between tunes.

 

That reminds me of this guy who serenaded (in Italian) all of the guests while we dined at Zefferino's. Actually, during one of his songs, my wife noticed I temporarily dissengaged from our conversation, and went into a zone--focusing on the chords that guy was playing. Of course, I appologized when I "returned".

 

I heard there's an Italian place up around Fremont St where Gladyss Knight performs. I've got to check that out the next time I'm in Vegas.

[raddtunes]

LOTS of very very valued information on the laptop stuff. I'm sold - - and cured of paranoia! Great points, and I can't thank you guys enough.

 

If you come to Vegas again, I do play once a week or so in a restaurant very near Freemont Street called "Triple George."

It's one block north of the main stage of Freemont Street experience, and they actually have a nice old Steinway. I'm usually there Thursdays. Definitely awesome food too - steaks/seafood.

 

Unfortunately - when I want to have friends/family come to hear me, this is just about the only opportunity I have. All of the corporate stuff is private.

[dp2]

Cool. I'll have to keep that in mind. God permitting, my wife and I plan to do another Vegas trip sometime this year (probably in July or September).

[gliderproarc]

Any advice? Yeah, don't update the firmware on your USB controller the day before a gig. If the update creates conflicts, you may not find out until it's too late.

And yes I speak from personal experience.

[dp2]

Any advice? Yeah, don't update the firmware on your USB controller the day before a gig. If the update creates conflicts, you may not find out until it's too late.

And yes I speak from personal experience.

That's a good piece of advice. :grin: On the other hand, if updating the firmware a day before the gig is unavoidable, then make sure you have another piece of equipment that can replace the functionality of the hardware being updated).

 

The point is hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.

[yannis D]

this thread is quite old, but i brought it up as i played laptop only last night. So, just an M Audio ES 61 controller, my laptop (B4, Lounge Lizard, Minimoog, some pads, some samples in Ableton Live) and my accordion. Everything went smooth. No problems, no hickups, nothing to disconnect me from the music process. I focused to my playing, comping and accordion skills and stage performance than to knobs, controllers and changing sounds. Everything was under a knob and a mouse (of course i set it up properly in Ableton the night before). After the gig many people told me that my presence (as the band's) was very nice:happy faces. Plus our soundman (who's our produces as well) dug the sounds! Of course, the Rhodes sounds were not *this* good as my Electro's (B4 though, was superb) but that's not an importand point as long as the music kept flowing. The best part was after the show, as i packed my thing in less than 5'. I'm so happy i'm thinking to use the same poor set up for the future

This one is for fellow forumites that want but are still affraid to go full software. Maybe we have to take some more risks!

[Joe Muscara]

Though this column is oriented towards guitar, one could do something similar with keys as far as setting up separate tracks for each song in the set list. I don't know enough about apps besides GarageBand to know if it would work in those. I have considered a similar GB set up, but I'm more wary about bringing an expensive laptop to some places. Still, it's a cool idea and seems to be fast.

 

http://www.macobserver.com/columns/rantsandraves/2007/02/27.1.shtml

 

 

[MaFunk]

I used to use a Laptop setup (B4 Mr ray etc) before i just got hacked off with the hassle and spaghetti junction round my rig..

 

Brainspawn's Forte software host cant be beat IMHO for its ease of use and routing capabilities.. PC only though

[Clifton]

Well I had that gig which I mentioned in my initial post last night, and to give you some feedback, it went absolutely smoothly.

 

Granted, I was only running B4 II the whole night (for my B3 stuff, used the SO8 for everything else, to the sound mans terror), but damn it was worth it, that organ sounded GOOD...much better than the houses' (crap) Korg PA-50.

 

And setup/teardown was 5 minutes each, overall, no complaints. I tried out setting it up, using it and tearing it down at home numerous times, and the results were no different to on the job. No nasty surprises.

 

The setup I used:

An old IBM ThinkPad T40 (1.3Ghz, 512mb ram) running a dual-boot of XP, one for JUST music programs, the other for everything else, with the power supply

Tascam US-122L, USB-powered. MIDIed to a controller

NI B4 II & M-Tron (which I didnt end up using) running in Cantibale Lite

 

My opinion: Even if you dont have much power, if you know the right way to go about it, a laptop can be a reliable option.

 

 

[raddtunes]

Hate to ask, but I'm dying to know - what's a dual boot of Windows XP?

[Clifton]

Hate to ask, but I'm dying to know - what's a dual boot of Windows XP?

 

It's where you have two installations of XP on one computer (can be done with any operating system, actually). When the computer boots up you have a choice of which one you want to fire up. Right this second I'm using my 'internet, email & word' XP, but for my music stuff I use my 'musicating' XP, which is XP with NOTHING loaded on it except the bare minimum of drivers, and the music programs/plugins I use.

 

The difference in performance and reliability is very noticeable, and I reckon is the #1 mistake people make using their laptops live (with Windows, that is) is having all their games, emails, virus protection, accounting software etc. on the same installation as their hardcore music stuff.

Windows just does not run reliably & efficiently with a lot of stuff installed, no matter how much of a supercomputer you have.