Korg piano sounds

[Dana.]

Does anyone know if the Korg TR61/88 and the Korg microX have the same piano sound? As I understand it, the TR61/88's piano sound is derived from the OASYS.

[SilverDragonSoun]

Does anyone know if the Korg TR61/88 and the Korg microX have the same piano sound? As I understand it, the TR61/88's piano sound is derived from the OASYS.

 

Well I can tell you without a doubt that the TR series piano is in no way comparable to the Oasys with the exception Korg makes them both. Have heard and played both, there is a very significant and noticeable difference IMO.

[Dana.]

Of course there's a difference, but that wasn't my question.

 

P.S. From Keyboard's review of the TR61: The main StereoPiano mf/f draws raw materials from sampling sessions for the megabuck OASYS, though the TRs two-velocity layer voice structure certainly makes it a simpler animal.

[Song80s]

The Oasys piano sample is 503MB

 

The entire TR 61 PCM rom is 64mb, 32 MB greater than the Triton Classic

 

If you read the Korg web site, they used select Oasys multisamples for the TR61 acoustic piano

 

Some kid on HC made a comment about the TR61 piano.

 

I think its best to draw your own conclusion

[keynote]

The Oasys piano sample is 503MB

 

The 503MB Piano sample is on an expansion library. The preset Piano sample is much smaller. In fact the entire preset PCM ROM on the OASYS is only 314MB. OTOH, the preset WAV ROM on the new Yamaha Motif XS is 355MB. The OASYS PCM ROM is uncompressed although I'm not sure about the Motif XS's WAV ROM being uncompressed. Yamaha states that the 355MB "when converted to 16bit linear i.e. (uncompressed)" - which leads me to the conclusion that the XS ROM has been compressed. Much to the chagrin of musicians worldwide. lol Oh well... If only the OASYS was about 4 Grand cheaper they would sell faster than Korg could make them. But apparently Korg isn't interested in selling the OASYS in quantity though. Otherwise it would be 4 Grand cheaper.

[Song80s]

'The 503MB Piano sample is on an expansion library. The preset Piano sample is much smaller.'

 

sooo, you the piano you prefer is....

[ProfD]

P.S. From Keyboard's review of the TR61: The main StereoPiano mf/f draws raw materials from sampling sessions for the megabuck OASYS, though the TRs two-velocity layer voice structure certainly makes it a simpler animal.

 

Those were the samples they took while clowning around with a Fisher-Price boombox.

 

Other than the OASYS, most Korg pianos sound like the same M1 PCM sample with *better* effects.

 

 

[Carlos A Voight]

P.S. From Keyboard's review of the TR61: The main StereoPiano mf/f draws raw materials from sampling sessions for the megabuck OASYS, though the TRs two-velocity layer voice structure certainly makes it a simpler animal.

 

Those were the samples they took while clowning around with a Fisher-Price boombox.

 

Other than the OASYS, most Korg pianos sound like the same M1 PCM sample with *better* effects.

 

 

Yeah i agree with ProfD here,

Ive had a chance to have a play with both and i can tell you the difference is massive.

 

I think Korg still stuck with their pitch shifting rather then sampling every individual note on the TR, maybe im wrong.

 

Yeah the OASYS is an experience to behold thats for sure, you can literally FEEL the depth of the sounds and the massive size of them in a physical way,

And i think for once after playing i actually was impressed by Korgs Piano sound which for the most part i feel pales next to Yamaha in that area.

 

Just my 2c

[keynote]

'The 503MB Piano sample is on an expansion library. The preset Piano sample is much smaller.'

 

sooo, you the piano you prefer is....

 

Ha, Ha, lol..

 

Point taken Greg.

 

I didn't realize the EXs-2 was a freebie. Kudos to Korg for giving not only the EXs-2 but also the EXs-1 PCM libraries for free to OASYS owners. Owners may not be as fortunate with future expansion libraries though. Probably $200 a pop {more or less}. Also, when the EXs-2 is loaded it apparently maxes out the Sampler RAM negating any other type of sample loading or use. If you wanted to use the Sampler for some reason you would have to dump the EXs-2 Concert Grand from the sample memory, which would be a hassle if you wanted to use other samples (besides the preset samples) during a gig. If the Preset memory was bigger Korg could have included the Concert Grand and also the EXs-1 into it which would free up the Sampler for other use. Hindsight is always 20/20 they say. Hopefully in the near future the Big Three and the other keyboard manufacturers will get with the times and start thinking in terms of Gigabytes instead of Megabytes. With more powerful processors and the inclusion of USB 2.0, Firewire, and now even Ethernet interfaces, Gigabytes should be commonplace on keyboards in my opinion. Not only for Preset ROM but for Samplers as well. And at $8,000 a pop for an OASYS you would have thought Korg would have considered that into the equation of its Open Architecture Synthesis.

 

[Martin Hines]

Also, when the EXs-2 is loaded it apparently maxes out the Sampler RAM negating any other type of sample loading or use. If you wanted to use the Sampler for some reason you would have to dump the EXs-2 Concert Grand from the sample memory,

This is no longer correct.

 

There are four items that use memory in the OASYS:

210 MB: OS and Software

314 MB: Factory "ROM" (always loaded)

313 MB: EXs1 Expansion (optionally loaded)

503 MB: EXs2 Piano (optionally loaded)

 

With 2 GB of RAM installed (2048 MB):

-- Factory "ROM" only = approx. 1.5 GB Sample RAM

-- Factory + EXs1 = approx. 1.2 GB Sample RAM

-- ALL = approx. 708 MB Sample RAM

 

 

Hopefully in the near future the Big Three and the other keyboard manufacturers will get with the times and start thinking in terms of Gigabytes instead of Megabytes.

When talking about sample playback it is important to distinguish between the two methods currently used:

1. Preload all samples into memory

2. "Stream" samples using memory and hard disk

 

1. PRELOAD SAMPLES INTO MEMORY

All current hardware workstations (including the OASYS) pre-load all of their sample "ROM" into memory (or burned on a ROM chip). The big advantages to this approach are speed and audio stability. Patches based on those "memory resident" samples load instantaneously and audio defects (pops, glitches) are non existent (with workstations that use compressed samples there is a tiny delay in loading)

 

The OASYS uses a Pentium PC motherboard running a version of Linux, which is why only 210 MB are required to run the OS and software (leaving about 1.8 GB to store preloaded samples).

 

2. STREAM SAMPLES USING MEMORY AND HARD DISK

With samplers like Kontakt and GigaStudio, you may have GB of samples but:

-- only a small portion of any library is loaded

-- samples are loaded in a Just-In-Time method loaded and played in memory but stored on hard disk

 

"Giga" samplers really tax the systems on which they are running and the user has to worry about whether they have attempted to load/play too many samples at one time (or they suffer audio pops, clicks and glitches).

 

Also, loading times can be anywhere from 10 seconds to a few minutes. If playing live, the user has to be very aware that only a subset of all of the "patches" can be used at one time.

 

Even with current PCs, you have to have a very powerful system to actually load more than 1.5-2.0 GB of samples at the same time. As an example, the mega orchestral library East West Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra XP Pro Edition is 138 GB in size (hard disk space), and if you are interested in trying to load and run a full orchestral template (and this is not loading everything) East West recommends using at least 4 PCs.

 

I assume workstation manufacturers will eventually employ some type of disk streaming but at least today that technology is not as rock solid and absolutely predictable as pre-loading (and playing) samples from memory (and workstation manufacturers are generally risk-adverse)

 

[K K]

Just-In-Time... I've always hated this principle, be it as a way to order stuff as a buyer in a company, or for computer methods.

 

I guess that's why I still haven't bought a single software synth.

[Song80s]

The Oasys piano sample is 503MB

 

The 503MB Piano sample is on an expansion library. The preset Piano sample is much smaller. In fact the entire preset PCM ROM on the OASYS is only 314MB. OTOH, the preset WAV ROM on the new Yamaha Motif XS is 355MB. The OASYS PCM ROM is uncompressed although I'm not sure about the Motif XS's WAV ROM being uncompressed. Yamaha states that the 355MB "when converted to 16bit linear i.e. (uncompressed)" - which leads me to the conclusion that the XS ROM has been compressed. Much to the chagrin of musicians worldwide. lol Oh well... If only the OASYS was about 4 Grand cheaper they would sell faster than Korg could make them. But apparently Korg isn't interested in selling the OASYS in quantity though. Otherwise it would be 4 Grand cheaper.

 

hey Mike, are you interested in the new XS or M3 ?

 

Prior to the NAMM announcements, I was bottom fishing for a used Oasys.

But given the M3 has the ' best of Oasys PCM' , I am going to seriously consider the M3

[keynote]

hey Mike, are you interested in the new XS or M3 ?

 

Prior to the NAMM announcements, I was bottom fishing for a used Oasys.

But given the M3 has the ' best of Oasys PCM' , I am going to seriously consider the M3

 

I am interested in both of them although I am leaning towards the XS7. The XS has 76 keys vs. the M3 which has 73 keys. The Motif XS has more polyphony, more WAV ROM i.e. 355MB vs. 256MB, more insert effects i.e. 8 slots with dual inserts for a total of 16 for the XS vs. 5 for the M3, and the XS can have up to 1GB of Sample RAM vs. a total of 320MB for the M3. Also, the expansion RAM board for the M3 is sold through Korg distribution only which will likely make it a much more expensive option than the XS which takes standard DIMM's and can be purchased at your local computer outlet. The XS also has up to 8 velocity zones per voice vs. the M3's 4 velocity zones. The M3 of course has Karma 2.0 and the ability to add a Radias VA synth to it. Although the Motif XS now has VCM (Virtual Circuitry Modeling) effects like those found in the DM2000 which will give it a boost in analog sound reproduction. The M3 can load more file formats such as AKAI S1000/S3000 and Soundfont 2.0. It also has a touch screen with X-Y mode and Loop Crossfade in the Sample edit list. But the M3 will be a more expensive keyboard overall though because of the options costs for the Korg, besides the asking price of the M3 itself. The Firewire, Sample memory expansion board, and the PCM Expansion USB Memory devices are sold exclusively through Korg AFAIK. On the other hand the XS Firewire interface (for XS6/7) and compatible Storage devices can be found at your local Music dealer or Computer store at competitive prices plus the standard DIMM's as I mentioned.

 

The most important thing of course for me is how they sound. I am looking for the best bread n' butter sounds and Yammie seems to excel in bread n' butter sounds right out of the box. The Korg has some great bread n' butter sounds too plus it has expansion capability. Korg also has some great B3 Organ patches on the M3 unlike Yamaha who always seems to come up short on B3 emulations. That may change with the XS but I won't hold my breath.

 

In conclusion, I think the M3 and XS will be great successes for both Korg and Yamaha. Yamaha will have the jump on Korg since the XS will be releasing in April while the M3 is sometime in July; so that gives Yamaha three extra months of added exposure to the consumer. If the XS is all that Yamaha is claiming it to be then those 3 extra months could prove to be crucial in solidifying Yamaha's overall advantage over the M3 especially at the lower price point. If however the M3 is a sleeping giant in waiting then things could drastically turn around in Korg's favor with sales rocketing past the XS in the months that follow the M3's initial release. Time will tell which Board has the definitive edge. Of course price always plays an important part in the scheme of things too. Yammie seems to have the edge in that regard. At least on paper anyway...

 

Like I always say: May the best Board win!!

[Martin Hines]

The Firewire, Sample memory expansion board, and the PCM Expansion USB Memory devices are sold exclusively through Korg AFAIK. On the other hand the XS Firewire interface (for XS6/7) and compatible Storage devices can be found at your local Music dealer or Computer store at competitive prices plus the standard DIMM's as I mentioned.

A small correction. Manufacturer-specific options would all be available through your local music dealer. This would include:

-- Yamaha Motif XS FireWire expansion (for Motif XS6/XS7)

-- Korg EXB-Radias

-- Korg EX-USB-PCM

 

[Song80s]

hey Mike, are you interested in the new XS or M3 ?

 

Prior to the NAMM announcements, I was bottom fishing for a used Oasys.

But given the M3 has the ' best of Oasys PCM' , I am going to seriously consider the M3

 

I am interested in both of them although I am leaning towards the XS7. The XS has 76 keys vs. the M3 which has 73 keys. The Motif XS has more polyphony, more WAV ROM i.e. 355MB vs. 256MB, more insert effects i.e. 8 slots with dual inserts for a total of 16 for the XS vs. 5 for the M3, and the XS can have up to 1GB of Sample RAM vs. a total of 320MB for the M3. Also, the expansion RAM board for the M3 is sold through Korg distribution only which will likely make it a much more expensive option than the XS which takes standard DIMM's and can be purchased at your local computer outlet. The XS also has up to 8 velocity zones per voice vs. the M3's 4 velocity zones. The M3 of course has Karma 2.0 and the ability to add a Radias VA synth to it. Although the Motif XS now has VCM (Virtual Circuitry Modeling) effects like those found in the DM2000 which will give it a boost in analog sound reproduction. The M3 can load more file formats such as AKAI S1000/S3000 and Soundfont 2.0. It also has a touch screen with X-Y mode and Loop Crossfade in the Sample edit list. But the M3 will be a more expensive keyboard overall though because of the options costs for the Korg, besides the asking price of the M3 itself. The Firewire, Sample memory expansion board, and the PCM Expansion USB Memory devices are sold exclusively through Korg AFAIK. On the other hand the XS Firewire interface (for XS6/7) and compatible Storage devices can be found at your local Music dealer or Computer store at competitive prices plus the standard DIMM's as I mentioned.

 

The most important thing of course for me is how they sound. I am looking for the best bread n' butter sounds and Yammie seems to excel in bread n' butter sounds right out of the box. The Korg has some great bread n' butter sounds too plus it has expansion capability. Korg also has some great B3 Organ patches on the M3 unlike Yamaha who always seems to come up short on B3 emulations. That may change with the XS but I won't hold my breath.

 

In conclusion, I think the M3 and XS will be great successes for both Korg and Yamaha. Yamaha will have the jump on Korg since the XS will be releasing in April while the M3 is sometime in July; so that gives Yamaha three extra months of added exposure to the consumer. If the XS is all that Yamaha is claiming it to be then those 3 extra months could prove to be crucial in solidifying Yamaha's overall advantage over the M3 especially at the lower price point. If however the M3 is a sleeping giant in waiting then things could drastically turn around in Korg's favor with sales rocketing past the XS in the months that follow the M3's initial release. Time will tell which Board has the definitive edge. Of course price always plays an important part in the scheme of things too. Yammie seems to have the edge in that regard. At least on paper anyway...

 

Like I always say: May the best Board win!!

 

good comparison. I am preparing to purchase both as well.

 

Since I have the Rd700sx ( and I might keep my Extreme 76) my move is towards the XS61 and M3 module

 

The stock sounds and variety, of both should be excellent, thus loading samples

should be a lower priority.

 

I agree, the M3 'extras ' will add up. The Radias is ok but not exciting, IMO

 

I am looking forward to giving the XS a test drive next month. Meanwhile, I am hoping to find more M3 demos and a well written user review of it.

[MikeT156]

Keynote:

 

Good comparison Mike. I'd be concerned about the proprietary expansions on the Korg M3, as well as the selling price already being higher than the Motif XS. They are two somewhat different systems though. Yamaha has never been known for intuitive GUI's and Korg (up until the Oasys) typically lagged behind in sound. I really like the concept of the M3, the 73 keys are from C to C, and for me at least, would make it almost unnecessary to carry around an 88 note KB just to get some lower notes that I need. Most of the 76 note KB's stop at E on the bottom, and that's not enough.

 

Yamaha needs to make some strides with their GUI. They need to have a simpler UI. Roland and Korg have always had a little bit better interface than Yamaha. Things should get interesting by summer.

 

Mike T.

[dp2]

btw, thanks for the info about the Oasys ROM expansion libs. I guess I must have missed thoses.