In Ear monitors and hiss

[BluesKeys]

I used in ear monitors for the first time this weekend and had a bad overlay of hiss, static, background noise. I have never used them before and it was my first time with this new band (and my first time with out my amp on stage as a monitor). I am used to hearing/feeling my keyboard amp behind me and really missed that connection. It took me most of the night to get close to a balance of the band and my keys through this mix. Yet in the end I still had this awful hiss over riding my sound.

 

For those who use in ear monitors my question is

 

1. Is the hiss something you just learn to deal with?

 

2. How do you connect with your keys when the sound is so thin?

 

3. Would better ear buds help any of these problems?

 

I use a Roland MX8 mixer that has XLR outs (I use them for my EONS) and I was adding to the hiss. So I went to 1/4 cables and 2 direct boxes with ground lifts to get rid of the noise.

 

4. DOES anyone know of a small mixer that has a ground lift?

 

Before you ask I am not sure what system or ear buds I was using. I do know I was hard wired to the monitor board with a 1/4 jack cable. It was my first gig with the band and with 40+ new tunes I was not concerned with what system but I would guess it was a Shure set up since the former guitar player owns a music store that sell Shure Equipment.

[Botch]

Never had a problem with hiss in my Shure system. Did the other band members have similar problems?

[Tusker]

1. Is the hiss something you just learn to deal with?

 

We switched to Aviom IEM's late last year. Nobody has hiss problems. I'd check see if there is an electrical (ground?) problem.

 

2. How do you connect with your keys when the sound is so thin?

 

I dunno about thin sound, but there was significant high frequency roll-off and "deadness" for me. I tried adding some reverb which helped a bit. I played around with several kinds of open headphones and found they worked better than the recommended ear buds. I need some room sound to feel connected. When we have a small ensemble, I rip the IEM's off and enjoy the room sound occasionally.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jerry

[Ed Coury]

Sorry you had trouble. I've been using in-ear monitors this month(wired) for the first time, and have no hiss. I'm using Shure E2 phones have the sound is fine.

[BluesKeys]

Never had a problem with hiss in my Shure system. Did the other band members have similar problems?

 

The guitar player was a virgin like myself and he complained about it too. None of the other members said much. We did get some of it out by using a 220 power box and converter and making sure everything was on the same circuit. As I said I used the direct boxes with ground lifts to elimnate some that the keys were causing.

 

That is why I am interested in a small mixer with ground lifts on it.

[Prague]

IEMs don't cause hiss. They amplify what you give 'em. GIGO.

[Tonysounds]

Ambient mics help eliminate that 'disconnected' feeling; I usually run one aimed at the audience so I get good crowd noise as well as stage input.

 

T

[ksoper]

I use Ultimate Ears UE5s. I don't get hiss. If there's noise, it's usually 60 cycle hum. That can be tracked down and eliminated. I get a band stereo mix minus keys from the monitor desk and run it into a small Yamaha mixer that has a few digital fx built in. The hi-z outputs of the keyboards go to the line mixer and the lo-z outputs go to the house. A little verb livens up the band mix, and I can adjust the volume of my boards in relation to that mix. That helps my sense of presence.

 

If you've got hiss, there may be a simple signal-to-noise issue. Check all the levels and make sure there's healthy signal going through all the busses.

 

With the dual driver E5s my mix sounds pretty good, but not as full as running through amps. I get enough bleed through the ears to hear bass and drums from the house. It's a compromise. The trade off is that I can run my mix very quietly and save my gig-beaten ears.

 

k.

 

 

[BluesKeys]

I use Ultimate Ears UE5s. I don't get hiss. If there's noise, it's usually 60 cycle hum. That can be tracked down and eliminated. I get a band stereo mix minus keys from the monitor desk and run it into a small Yamaha mixer that has a few digital fx built in. The hi-z outputs of the keyboards go to the line mixer and the lo-z outputs go to the house. A little verb livens up the band mix, and I can adjust the volume of my boards in relation to that mix. That helps my sense of presence.

 

If you've got hiss, there may be a simple signal-to-noise issue. Check all the levels and make sure there's healthy signal going through all the busses.

 

With the dual driver E5s my mix sounds pretty good, but not as full as running through amps. I get enough bleed through the ears to hear bass and drums from the house. It's a compromise. The trade off is that I can run my mix very quietly and save my gig-beaten ears.

 

k.

 

 

Ksoper

Somehow I am confused here. You are saying you run your keys into a small Yamaha mixer, sending the XRL out to the house. But if I understand correctly you are taking a monitor mix (less Keys) of the band and putting that into the SAME mixer.

 

Question

 

1. How do you keep that monitor mix from looping back to the house?

2. Are you taking a headphone jack out of the Yamaha for your ear buds?

3. If you are adding FX to your ear buds from the Yamaha mixer, doesn't that send it to the FOH?

[TheOtherPianoMan]

Jim,

 

I am not sure what ksoper is getting at here. But i have my own solution to that same problem. my setup is a mackie cfx12 for the boards then a feed from that goes into a rolls stereo headphone amp then a feed from the FOH board goes into the rolls then the output from the rolls goes into my shure inears. this gives me control over my boards independent from the band mix. also i was having problems getting the feed from the FOH to be hot enough for the Shure which is where you might be getting your hiss from. if the feed from the board is too low and you turn your body pack up too high you might get a hiss. but i love my inear system. incidently the missing crowd/ stage volume noise is something that you get used to over time and i would invest in some good buds because that will get you a much bigger sound enableing you to "feel" the music.

[matted stump]

He said the low z outputs of his KEYBOARDS go to the house, not mixer outs.

 

Hence no loop.

[BluesKeys]

I get a band stereo mix minus keys from the monitor desk and run it into a small Yamaha mixer that has a few digital fx built in. The hi-z outputs of the keyboards go to the line mixer and the lo-z outputs go to the house.

k.

 

 

Moe,

After re-reading his post, it seems he has 2 mixers the Yamaha and a line mixer.

[BluesKeys]

Jim,

 

I am not sure what ksoper is getting at here. But i have my own solution to that same problem. my setup is a mackie cfx12 for the boards then a feed from that goes into a rolls stereo headphone amp then a feed from the FOH board goes into the rolls then the output from the rolls goes into my shure inears. this gives me control over my boards independent from the band mix. also i was having problems getting the feed from the FOH to be hot enough for the Shure which is where you might be getting your hiss from. if the feed from the board is too low and you turn your body pack up too high you might get a hiss. but i love my inear system. incidently the missing crowd/ stage volume noise is something that you get used to over time and i would invest in some good buds because that will get you a much bigger sound enableing you to "feel" the music.

 

That sounds like the ticket TOPman. I need to check into the Rolls when I look at small mixers.

 

I will add that at the end of the night I wasn't as tired and my ears were not ringing an I could hear much mo' better than usual. It will take some getting used to but I got no other choice.

[ksoper]

I could've been a little clearer. Sorry.

 

I have this Yamaha MG82CX mixer with FX. Into channels 1 & 2 I run a stereo band mix minus my keyboards which comes from the monitor desk. Into channels 3,4,5, & 6, I run the hi-z outputs of my keyboards. The lo-z outputs go directly to the splitter, which goes to both the FOH and the monitor desk. Nothing I do at my Yamaha mixer affects anything but what I hear. I run the ear monitors out of the headphone buss of the Yamaha.

 

Since the stereo band mix doesn't have keys in it, I'm free to dial in whatever colors and volumes suit me within the limitations of the Yamaha mixer. It's not a precision device, but for $179 it'll be fine for the rodeo-and-corndog circuit.

 

k.

[Prague]

What are "lo-z outputs" from keyboards?

[ksoper]

lo-z refers to low impedance, or the XLR outputs of a device. hi-z are the high impedance, or 1/4" outputs of a device. My Roland RD-700sx has both 1/4" and XLR outputs and they work simultaneously. My Motion Sound R3-147 also has both sets of working outputs. You can accomplish the same thing with direct boxes.

 

k.

[Prague]

As I figured. XLR/lo-z outputs are very uncommon on keyboards.

[BluesKeys]

ksoper, I like this approach except I have three keys to go into 2 lines front of house. So I need to mix the balance on my keys and then send a stereo feed to FOH. So I need the Yamaha mixer and I guess the Rolls device TOPMan is using to get the full Monty.

 

Does the Yamaha board have a ground lift? I have some serious noise coming from my mixer right now that needed direct boxes to clear up.

 

Prague, I have an RD700 and it is XLR less as most keys with several years on them. I would have to send 6 lines to front of house to get the sound right and it would drive our bass player/engineer nuts

[BluesKeys]

Well, gig two (new Band) and new mixer with no hiss. I still can't hear sh*@. I am frustrated with in ear monitors. We have yet been able to dial me in. The first gig was fighting the hiss. Last night there was some sort of loop thing going on that made this awful Gb squeal. By the time they got everything rewired I had no time for a sound check or to Dial them in. Next week we play a restaurant so there will be no sound check there.

 

I spent last night not hearing bass or guitar. It was disastrous and I missed parts because I couldn't hear and was frustrated. I will be woodshedding this week and will hit my parts no matter what, I'll deal with hearing them later.

 

On to the "getting rid of the Hiss." I bought the new Peavey PV10usb mixer. And it was flawless, clean, very quiet and with XLR outs no need for direct boxes. This will serve several purposes since it has 6 XLR ins and 2 stereo ins and usb port. I can use it as a small PA with my EONS. Use it with keys to snake or directly into EONs for stereo stage amp. Plus recording and mixing which I wanted. I was less than excited when I first looked at it. I have always seen PV as good durable equipment that was just below the better stuff like Mackie/Yamaha etc. But I have to say this seems to be the right piece for the job.

 

Now I am thinking about a stand or attachment to my stand for it.