In search of "my perfect tone"

[maclamb]

I recently was fortunate in that I discovered _my_ bass tone = Not _my_ in a possessive sense = but in the sense it's the sound that _resonates_ most with me. I have read and heard over the years of other musician's looking for _their_ tone., but I could never relate. I had never heard it and didn't hear it in my head. Now I do.

 

For years I've played bass and enjoyed, liked and even admired (i.e. Casady's) other bass tones. But I never really _hit on_ that one sound/tone that was _mine_ = the one I resonate with the most.

Now that I have discovered it = am able to hear and recognize it instantly = the search is on to fine tune and play with the tone as much as possible.

 

So, why am I writing? I have a few questions and, given that I have limited time., resources and funds, I am hoping your experience can help me answer some questions and validate my hypothesis and save me some time and money.

 

First of all the sound is best described as a meaty wooden sound of a large _electrified_ log being struck with another log or even a dull axe. A deep, _thunk_ with various overtones, etc.

I now realize I first noticed this sound on my Alembic Series 1 fretted bass. (Since sold ;=(

But that was years ago and it didn't occur to me then, even though I loved the sound, that it was _my_ tone. If I had realized it then, I would have pursued a different course in equipment acquisition. (and would still have that bass!)

 

I noticed it again yesterday when I set my bass (Ibanez SR1005EFM = 5 string through neck, mono rail bridge, 2 Bartolini pups with Vari=Mid III HQ 3=band eq and flat wound strings) to it's _factory_ settings (all eq knobs at mid settings and no Mid EQ and turned the bridge pickup full. I am playing through an Ampeg SVT3 Pro (tube preamp, solid state amp).

Wow. I just love that tone. Would I use it on every song? No. That is where other types of tones or even basses will come in. I like and admire other tones for other things, of course. But _my_ tone is at the core. It gives me a starting point for all others. (at least in my mind, such as it is)

 

As I played around I noticed:

Increasing the low or highs on the bass eq _muddied_ or sharpened the tone but did not eliminate it. Rolling the pup selector from Bridge to Neck pup did begin to eliminate the tone (see hypothesis, below). Adjusting the Mid EQ seemed to have most effect on the tone. Changing setting (low, mid, high) on the amp changed the shape of the tone, without eliminating it = as to be expected.

 

So, my hypothesis. This I where you come in ;=)

 

1. This is a character of Neck=through basses = the _log_ neck is the main factor = connected to the body/bridge. I have tried this with the other basses at my house: Ovation 4 string acoustic electric (set net), Fretless Jazz (bolt on neck), Hollow Body (set neck) and none have this specific tone. If this is true, is it a character of wood only? Or would an all composite bass (ala Steinberger, for example) have the same tone in it?

2. A tube preamp is required = not fully tested yet, but I don't seem to get the tone with my GK solid state amp. Would a fully tube amp be better? (When I got this tone on my Alembic Series 1 I was playing through an SWR 500 = tube preamp/SS amp)

3. It is primarily a bridge pickup tone (wonder if a piezo bridge pickup would help or hinder)

 

So, if my hypothesis is true, then I know what kind of basses and amps to look for. And, I can begin experimenting by changing one variable at a time (different pups, strings, amps, bridges would be first and are easy=er to test).

 

Woods, finishes, neck composition/laminates layers, body shapes, finishes are more difficult, given limited time and resources. Ideally, I would in the future be able to go to a luthier and tell him exactly what to build = type of wood, shape, neck length and composition, electronics, etc.

 

So my question is really this = if you understand what I am pointing to and asking = I am open to any and all help as I move down this path. Like any search = helpful hints to point me in the _right_ direction will be greatly appreciated to concentrate focus and resources. I mean, of course, if I won the lottery I could start just buying every neck through bass and start testing, but that still takes time ;=)

 

So, would any neck through have this tone? Could I get by with a less expensive model?

 

What woods, neck composition, structure, length will be best? Best here is described as providing the _most' tone and most control of the tone. There may or may not be an _ideal_ tone = or it is simply a facet of all neck through w/ bridge pup and then I can pretty much stick with what I have. Or will different combinations of bass structure and electronics produce different colors of tone = maybe pointing the search to that _ideal_ perfect tone, if there is such a thing. Maybe it is not attainable in a real sense= merely an approximation (we'll leave Plato and Kant out of this for now).

 

I plan to go about this scientifically, = recording different blends and combinations and trying different basses as I can and then comparing.

 

Not sure where this is leading, but if you can relate to my having found _my tone' then you know the excitement.

 

Thanks in advance = see you along the way ;=)

 

 

[SteveC]

My perfect tone changes all the time. So does my gear. But recently I have tried to settle down and really work my technique and gear more to see what I can really get out of them. You may be amazed at how many different tones you canget by moving your right hand, changing the balance of your pickups, weaking your EQ, etc.

 

Just something to think about...

[getz out]

Your post = confusing the crap out of me.

 

What?

[maclamb]

here's a sample of the tone I am taking about:

 

http://www.wakethemup.org/sound_samples.html

 

sorry if my post is confusing.

[Gruuve]

In a nutshell, I think the answer to your question is "yes", every element, including pickups (both type, brand, model, and positioning), onboard preamp, body wood, neck wood, fretboard material, fret material and sizes, scale length, strings (what they are, and how new or old they are), amps, cabinets, the room, what kind of mood you're in, and whether you ate caprese salad or friend chicken for lunch, are going to affect what the bass sounds like. (Sorry, probably not the answer you hoped for eh?)

 

That said, they don't all have equal impact...some are big factors, some are small factors, and some are hair-splitting. I would say that the biggest factor is the electronics...you can put different electronics into the same bass, and it will sound quite different.

 

As far as the wood characteristic's sound...I would say that the fretboard material is the one that probably has the most dramatic effect on tone (I think this is true, although I could be wrong...others may disagree, so let's see). The body and neck woods figure in as well, but my opinion is to a lesser degree than the fretboard wood.

 

Strings have a big impact as well, although I find it very difficult to hear the difference between most (not all) stainless steel roundwounds, for instance...they have subtle differences. Compared to strings of different types (say, stainless rounds versus nickel rounds versus flatwounds), there is definitely an audible difference.

 

When you get down to things like the nut and bridge materials, I think they color the sound, but it's a difference that I think is very difficult for most of us to hear (again, others may disagree).

[maclamb]

Thanks Dave - I agree about "al the factors' including what I just ate. Today for example -the "tone" is not as obvious as when I first discovered it.

But, I played several basses today:

neck thrus: Almebic series 1, Peavey Grinder(ick), Johnson

and a Music man Stingray (bolt on) and None had the tone -although I was playing through a solid state amp for all but the Peavey.

I think for my ear/tatse:

neck through - bridge pup with vari-eq rolled to x degree(I'll check with Ibanez this week to see where I'm rolling the setting to - whet the range is) and tube pre amp.

 

So, now to experiment:

Pups are probably the only thing I can really change (except type of flatwounds) and see what that does.

Any suggestions on pups to try first?

I'm not quite ready to drop $1100 on a set of Alembic pups and eq - though that may well be "IT".

Hee Hee - my bass really chose me - I'm thinking of buying a second for a backup and to experiment with(and not screw with my7 main ax...)

 

[Gruuve]

Sorry...I don't have enough experience with the direction you're after to make any valid suggestions. (Unlike one other forumite who has a posting compulsion, I know when I don't actually have anything to add.) But I'm sure other folks who do have valid suggestions will chime in...

 

Dave

 

[maclamb]

thanks dave

Enjoyed the samples too.

 

[JBFLA]

...For years I've played bass and enjoyed, liked and even admired (i.e. Casady's) other bass tones.

 

Have you been able to try a Jack Cassidy bass, or a Lakland Hollowbody or a Guild or...

 

Those types of basses have a definitive sound to them. You won't (IMO) find it in a solid body neck thru or bolt-on neck bass.

 

That's where I'd start, if that's the sound you recognize as a favorite.

 

Jim

[Rocky McDougall]

 

sorry if my post is confusing.

 

*seemed&perfectly+clearto me=whats theproblelm?<>

Rocky

[maclamb]

Actually - yes - tried a casady bass - great tone and even considered adding a Dark Star pickup. (too big and uncomfortable for me to play)But still not THE tone. Even casady on his starfire didn't get the organic feel of the tone (though I love his tone and did consider and tried copying it for years. Glad to say I've given up and prefer "my" tone more ;-) As it should be, i suppose.

I haven't tried the lakland hollow body- but may try. Though as I said in my post -the hollow bodies may come close - but without the neckthru (IMHO) it will never match THE tone. I am wondering if I can tell a bolt on/setneck from a neck thru when going for that tone just by ear.

just a thought.

[maclamb]

 

sorry if my post is confusing.

 

*seemed&perfectly+clearto me=whats theproblelm?<>

Rocky

 

thanks- I was trying to be polite.

 

Like your tagline -is the misspelling of "You're" intentional to make the point?

[Rocky McDougall]

 

sorry if my post is confusing.

 

*seemed&perfectly+clearto me=whats theproblelm?<>

Rocky

 

thanks- I was trying to be polite.

 

Like your tagline -is the misspelling of "You're" intentional to make the point?

 

Thanks for the correction. See, I don't know nothin', :grin:

I'll correct it now, if I can figure out how to do it.

Rocky

[Davo-London]

My experimentation with pickups on my Jazz proved one thing very clearly to me. The tone is primarily in the wood/construction of the bass. The pick-ups (as long as they are of a good quality) are a secondary tonal factor.

 

That's my 2 cents or 1.2 pence!

 

Davo

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

First of all the sound is best described as a meaty wooden sound of a large _electrified_ log being struck with another log or even a dull axe. A deep, _thunk_ with various overtones, etc.

 

Like on an old DX7?

[The Geoff]

Anyway - you can't have *That* tone - that's *MY* tone - I've been carrying it in my head for the last 40 years!!

 

I still haven't found it!!

 

 

Geoff

[maclamb]

First of all the sound is best described as a meaty wooden sound of a large _electrified_ log being struck with another log or even a dull axe. A deep, _thunk_ with various overtones, etc.

 

Like on an old DX7?

 

never heard a dx7 - but I'd be surprised if it can achieve a truly organic sound.

[maclamb]

Anyway - you can't have *That* tone - that's *MY* tone - I've been carrying it in my head for the last 40 years!!

 

I still haven't found it!!

 

 

Geoff

 

LOL

well, if you mean this tone specifically, the page with the sample shows the bass I use to get it.

[The Geoff]

Anyway - you can't have *That* tone - that's *MY* tone - I've been carrying it in my head for the last 40 years!!

 

I still haven't found it!!

 

 

Geoff

 

LOL

well, if you mean this tone specifically, the page with the sample shows the bass I use to get it.

 

 

G.

[...]

You could always install some EMG's in a live tree and beat the tree with a big branch.

[Rocky McDougall]

Personally, I have experienced the following; Items that have the most affect on tone in decending order are:

1. Strings 2. Pickups 3. Wood types 4. Neck style (bolt on or neckthru.) 5.Bridge 6.Scale length 7.Wood finish

 

I am sure there are many on this Forum that will disagree.

 

IMHO I don't think anyone can describe the "Natual Tone" of an unamplified solid body bass. The tone is the product of all the items listed above and how they interact with each other.

Rocky

[Such ODolsky]

a meaty wooden sound of a large _electrified_ log being struck with another log or even a dull axe. A deep, _thunk_ with various overtones, etc.

 

 

 

i believe that some old, 0.055-flatwound-strung, plectrum-plucked hollowbodied bass is the way to go.

[getz out]

You could always install some EMG's in a live tree and beat the tree with a big branch.

 

I think the EMG's would not be as organic. Maybe some Fender pickups instead.

 

I agree with Rocky regarding strings; instant change in tone and a very recognizable difference when you change strings. Matching a good set of strings with a player's technique and hands can yield a great amount control over the tone of an instrument. It is hard to overcome dead strings.

[maclamb]

re: htting a tree with emgs on it -

absolutely - though hard to travel with for gigs.

Maybe I could cut off a big part of it and take it with me...

 

 

 

 

[maclamb]

Personally, I have experienced the following; Items that have the most affect on tone in decending order are:

1. Strings 2. Pickups 3. Wood types 4. Neck style (bolt on or neckthru.) 5.Bridge 6.Scale length 7.Wood finish

 

I am sure there are many on this Forum that will disagree.

 

IMHO I don't think anyone can describe the "Natual Tone" of an unamplified solid body bass. The tone is the product of all the items listed above and how they interact with each other.

Rocky

 

I do plan to try different bass strings and maybe pups. Though the Barts on there now - big soapbars might be hard to beat.

Anyo9ne have any suggestions - not up for dropping $1000 on a set of alembics - yet!

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

never heard a dx7 - but I'd be surprised if it can achieve a truly organic sound.

 

I'm sure you have. It used to be a pretty standard keyboard back in the 1980s. It had a "log drum" patch which was all the rage. Sounds a lot like what you're describing

[Davo-London]

Interesting debate - I would go for the following:

 

1. Strings

2. Wood

3. Scale length

4. Pick-ups

5. Construction

6. Others

 

Davo

[Rocky McDougall]

Davo, I am surprised that you list wood ahead of pickups. I am not challanging that, but always thought that pickups colored the sound quite substantially.

 

Rocky

[BenLoy]

Interesting debate - I would go for the following:

 

1. Strings

2. Wood

3. Scale length

4. Pick-ups

5. Construction

6. Others

 

Davo

 

That list is missing the most important tonal ingredient: The hands.

 

Case in point: Sweet Willie's virtuoso friend Dan Cooper picked up my Stingray. I've never been able to get my bass to sound like it did when it in Dan's hands.

[EddiePlaysBass]

Here's a bit of a frustrating story: I have always had a certain tone in mind which I'd like to achieve. Warm, round and full would be the description.

 

All in all I've had 4 basses, 3 of which I still have. The one I sold was a cheap Samick which was battered and bruised and only worked half (electronics-wise). Bought it for $40, sold it for $60 (the guy who bought it brought a drummer along to see if it was a decent instrument ...)

 

In the end, the joke was on me though: I recently found a video clip of my first "real" band, which I'd joined when I had 7 months of playing experience and the one Samick bass to my name. Lo and behold, THERE was the bass sound I have been looking for !!! I had it, it was that bass ... and I sold it for a $20 profit