linwood Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 So, I'm wondering if after all these years I've been writing this wrong sometimes....I know it's awkward, but nobody sees it but me, most of the time and it does tell me what I wanna know or remember. I used this chord in a idea I posted for jim the other day. I use it all the time subbing' it for a m9 or m7, if it works in the tune. If I'm writing a cord symbol for it, there are a few ways that I'll jot it down. To make it simple, let's voice it A F G C E. I might write FM7(add9)/A or FM9/A or Am7b13. I never see a m7b13 anywhere but my house. The slash chord seems to work better because just seeing it like that helps to keep the right distance between the F and the E. You wouldn't wanna put the F and octave above the E, in other words, and it is a chord with 3 in the bass. So........does a m7b13 exsist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K K Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I've seen m7b13 chords for guitar, so no problem there. How about C/F/A? :grin: If one can say C/F (C major on F major), and F/A (F major on the A bass note), I guess one could also use C/F/A. Although such a "notation" would imply two chords with the last one always being a bass note. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 yea, that'd work,too I guess. Hey, bro...do we know how to throw down on a Saturday night or what?! We might be nerds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 We're back to slash chords! Linwood, I have a lot to learn about slash chords. To me that's just FM7 with a little frill. In your line of work Linwood, you have to voice your chords exactly, even the specific inversion? Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 In my gig, anything goes as long as the mule on the other end of the phone says "yes." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K K Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Hey, another nerd on a Saturday night. I knew Jazzwee would find this one to help you. :grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 In my gig, anything goes as long as the mule on the other end of the phone says "yes." Ha! But I'm confused since I thought you're the one playing the music. Or is this something you're feeding the sequencer? Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 When in doubt, write it out. If it doesn't fit, you must acquit. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 Hey Jazzwee, yea just about everything I do is into DP. That's the gig and if they knew I could play cymbals between my knees, they'd have me doing that too. I'll do several of these a week. On a couple of them, I might wanna play guitar on it myself or have my son play the track so he can make bank while in school. For those, I have to write a chart for us. I don't play guitar well enough not to need a chart eventhough I wrote the tune. These charts are usually bars and slashes with chord symbols over top. Quickly written and quickly thrown in the trash...on to the next one. The slash chord symbols help me when I'm playin' guitar since I suck so bad I can at least grab the upper structure and that's what I want in the mix anyway so I stay away from the keys. I also have another company that I do stuff for where I write the thing and play all the keys and then send them a DP file that has my audio tracked along with dummy drums and bass. I have to write all the parts out and send them charts because they record all the other parts with studio guys, but use my key tracks. I don't even get copies of it anymore. It's a weird little network I've weaseled my way into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 FM7(add9)/A or FM9/A, would solicit that voicing from my built in sequencer. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 If I saw A-7(b13) on a chart, I'd voice it A, G, C, F, or while soloing, and with a bass player, simply G, C, F - good old quartal harmony. My thinking is that I would address the base tonality, A-7, and then address the alteration. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dementedchord Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 initial response A-7b13... but out of context who knows... "style is determined not by what you can play but what you cant...." dave brubeck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raddtunes Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 I've been thinking about this chord for a long time, and it's been discussed and debated here recently. I'm thinking now that this is a very rare case of not being a specific "chord" - - but a very specific voicing of an already idenitified chord. What do you guys think? Here's my take based on using this chord, hearing it, and thinking about it: - - This type of chord isn't an "A" chord, simply by the way it sounds and functions to me - - it can only be an "F" chord, first inversion. The voicing principals of this chord are as follows: - - chord members are identical to an FM9. - - The third is not included in the upper part of any way that you voice it. (If you disagree with this, fool around with it at a piano for a a minute, then show me why. I've found if you add the third up above, it changes very signiricantly.) - - Ironically, the third of the chord, A, is there in the bass. Again - this chord's coolness comes from the A being placed ONLY in the bass. - - Finally - it's been debated whether the G in this chord is 9 or 2. I'd argued 2 before, but got some very cool contrasting views from the gang here. So -- I go with 9 - -but: - - The 9th is voiced below the seventh. Any other placement and you completely change the chord. - - -Any thoughts? Are we really chasing a chord here, or just a very particular voicing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raddtunes Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 P.S. - - I don't mean to say there can't be an A-7(b13). But If a chart said that, I'd be free to voice the notes however. Further, I'd be assuming a "minor chord" sound is being called for. There are a zillion ways you could voice an A-7(b13) chord. There are not, IMHO, a zillions ways you can voice the chord Linwood brought up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 90% of the time, I'd look at an A-7(b13), especially in the voicing I mentioned earlier, as either an A-7(b5) or an A7. Only about 10% of the time would I look at it as any sort of F. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 OT: hey peter, you'll dig this. I've had this nightmare on my desk for a few weeks, she owns a dress and accessory store back east. She wanted music and vox like Sheryl Crow's "all I wanna do". You know the drill....many phone calls....lot's of re-writes on the lyrics...getting approvals every step of the way,,,bla, bla, bla... In her e mail this morning she says, "Now I'd like to hear it with upbeats instead of downbeats." (f me)...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnegrad Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 "Now I'd like to hear it with upbeats instead of downbeats." (f me)...... ROTFLMAO! Oy; not another one of those!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 OT: hey peter, you'll dig this. I've had this nightmare on my desk for a few weeks, she owns a dress and accessory store back east. She wanted music and vox like Sheryl Crow's "all I wanna do". You know the drill....many phone calls....lot's of re-writes on the lyrics...getting approvals every step of the way,,,bla, bla, bla... In her e mail this morning she says, "Now I'd like to hear it with upbeats instead of downbeats." (f me)...... Tell her you'll be more than happy to remove the downbeats...Customer is always right you know. :grin: and while you're at it. I'd like to hear what that would sound like so post it for our enjoyment. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnegrad Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Wouldn't adding upbeats make it a Polka? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trill Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 All I wanna do is find a size six I got a feeling I'm not the only one Some bangles,scarfs and a good fit I got a feeling I'm not the only one Thought I help you out on this one Linwood, You'll have to work on the upbeats yourself :grin: Tell her the upbeats are more difficult and require and additional charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 "A sassy size 18".. Yea...it's the hardest part of the gig. The music's nothin'...anybody here can do the music, its dealing with the lunatics that keeps it real. She might want reggae, ska, or maybe a "On the Bayou" twist to the masterpiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trill Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 When your business is working for others you sometimes get the "Control Freak Diva" . We used to own an Interior design business and saw our share. I can only say, I feel sorry for you, because they are the worst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatoboy Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Linwood, Just tell her upbeats are gonna cost er' more money because there harder to write and play! Come up with a figure per upbeat like and extra $4.69 per upbeat! When they start saying that there going for a certian sound, "the sound of ping-pong balls under the wings of doves"....you know you know your in for trouble! Bo-Dode-OhDough! lb SP6, CP-50,YC 73, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Remember I always say put chord tones on downbeats? Here you can get away with no chord tones. :grin: I can't quite figure out what the meter would be if there are no downbeats. I guess she likes 'Free Jazz' after all. Sheryl Crow stuff sounding like Free Jazz. That would be interesting. :grin: Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raddtunes Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 so where are all the people who want to do jingles for a living? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raddtunes Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 90% of the time, I'd look at an A-7(b13), especially in the voicing I mentioned earlier, as either an A-7(b5) or an A7. Only about 10% of the time would I look at it as any sort of F. I'm confused about what you're saying here - mind elaborating? Also, I'm still thinking now that this is not a "chord idenitification" or symbol issue, but a chord voicing issue. Any comments???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 I think he meant Am7+5 or you could use it for a A #9b13, but your leavin' out 3...no biggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 I meant that if I see the symbol A-7(b13), the voicing that immediately comes to mind is A, G, C, F. My reasoning here is that when I see a chord symbol, the first 3 things of importance to me are the root, the 3rd, and the 7th - these are the base for defining extended harmony (extended meaning beyond a triad). Then comes typical extensions, which do not exist in this chord, then come alterations. When I see a voicing that has an alteration, I consider that that is the ONLY note beyond the base harmony that is desired. I would not think that a 9 or 11 were implied - they need to be expressed in this case. I also would not tend to put the 5 in the voicing as in my way of thinking a b13 is functionally equivalent to a #5, and better safe than sorry. If you leave the 5 out, chances are what you play will sound a lot less 'wrong' than if you put one in and found that the 5 really should have been flattened. My next post went on to say that in the case of the voicing I mentioned, that I generally would use that as an A-7(b5) (yes linwood, I indeed meant b5 ) or an A7. As a sub for a b5 it opens up the harmony nicely, and as a member of a ii V it gives you easily as many melodic voicing options from there to the V. As linwood noted, as an A7, I'm omitting the 3, but if I'm taking a ride over that, then the 3 gains a little more impact. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 Oh, I see whatcha mean,now. I thought you did a typo and was callin' the F a b5. my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Oh, I see whatcha mean,now. I thought you did a typo and was callin' the F a b5. my bad. It's all good - I wasn't particularly clear about why I was calling it a minor 7(b5). A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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