Another Amp Question

[Macbethstx]

I'm thinking of saving up to get an ampeg stack and this is what I picked out.

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ampeg-SVT450H-450W-Classic-Series-Head?sku=481756

 

For the head...

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ampeg-B410HE-4X10-Speaker-Cabinet?sku=603088

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ampeg-B115E-1X15-Speaker-Cabinet?sku=603089

 

And those for the cabinets.

 

Will that head handle both of them or do I Have to have a head that can handle the combined watts?

 

also what should it be? the head be more than the cabinet? or the cabinets be more than the head? and if you have two do you need ahead that can handle both combined.

 

thanks.

[yourlord]

That head puts out 450Wrms at 4ohms. Those cabs handle 200Wrms and are 8ohms. Put those 2 cabs together and they will be a 4ohm load so the head will deliver 450Wrms, split between the cabs, so you'll be getting 225Wrms per cab.

 

Pretty much perfect match on those specs.

 

 

[Jimmie ThunderLizard]

In my younger (louder) days I ran two Ampeg cabs (4x8" & 1x18") with an Ampeg B2 @ 350 watts. The band also ran it through the PA, but I don't know why. It was plenty loud and had great tone. Ampeg is top notch stuff and you won't go wrong getting the stack. And you can always take components for smaller jobs or rehearsal. I've still got the B2 and found another Ampeg bottom!

Good Luck To You!

[Macbethstx]

So do you think that I picked out some good choices? Also should I buy the head first? I have a really old peavy cabinet that I coudl run it through until I get the Ampeg cabs.

 

Also what if it was a smaller show or something could I only use one of those cabs? if so which one?

 

 

[Rocky McDougall]

If you buy in stages, I would recommend first the amp,(since you have a cabinet). Next the 4x10 and last the 1x15. you may discover that you do not need the 1x15. Or, if you have a bad back, consider the 2x10 in place of the 4x10.

Rocky

[Macbethstx]

Well now i'm thinking of getting two 4x10's just incase there's no PA system and then I can put the cab with the head on the left, then get a long cable and put the other on the right.

 

 

[getz out]

Macbethstx,

 

Bad idea on splitting the cabs up. You are likely to get phasing issues.

 

If you are playing a venue that does not have a PA that will carry bass, using an 8x10" or equivalent is probably a bad idea as well. Most likely, you will just bury the vocals. If you are in a situation like that, it is usually a great idea to try to decrease overall stage volume, not increase it. Talk to you drummer.

[Eric VB]

I have two 4x10s. They weigh 65 pounds each. In order to get them both into a compact car, one has to ride in the passenger seat. (No such problem with the minivan.)

 

For my regular gig for the last year just one 4x10 has been too much. I'm contemplating getting a 2x10 or a 1x12 combo. For small venues a 4x10 is just overkill.

 

And hauling 65 pounds may not seem like much, but it can have a toll on your back over time. Lots of players on this forum have back trouble. Not run-of-the-mill "my back is sore after lifting that" trouble, but permanent quality-of-life altering trouble. In some cases, career-ending back trouble. Lift properly (using your legs) and get help carrying heavy equipment. Use lighter equipment if possible.

 

Even with an 8 ohm load (only one 8 ohm cab), the head you mentioned is going to be loud. It may not be 450 W, but it will still be loud. It may not be loud enough for bigger venues or outdoor concerts, but in those cases you should be able to get PA support, either DI out from the head or miking the cab.

 

What venues will you be playing? What kind of rigs do other bass players that currently play those venues use? Does the guy with the 1000 W head and 8x10 cab barely crack his volume past zero, and even then is he too loud? Is the guy with the 100 W 1x15 combo unable to be heard above crowd noise, even with the gains maxed? Ask around; most players don't mind taking a few minutes to answer a question or two like this.

 

And please, if you're going to get a full stack just to be able to compete in volume wars in a small rehearsal space with guitarists with full stacks, wear ear protection. You will get tinnitus (permanent hearing damage, constant ringing in your ears). As a musician your ears are too important to allow this to happen.

 

In fact, wear ear protection anytime the volume gets loud. Even if the guitar amps are small, the drummer's crash cymbal that's only a foot away from your ear is going to be too loud. I'm pretty sure most of my tinnitus was caused by drums, not loud amps.

[JonathanD]

I put a few options, but in the end I think that maybe you should try the 450H with a SVT410HLF. It has wheels, great low end response, and it is nice cab. But here are some other options.

 

I would suggest getting the BSE410hlf which handles 400watts RMS and has a lower freq range than the 15 or the 410 you mentioned. Also it would be cheaper. The problem with this is that it is 4 ohms (I dont think it comes in 8 ohms) and you wont be able to ad another cab if you ever want to.

OH... try and go USED and not new. People are selling SVT4PRO heads for $850 on ebay so I am sure you can get a nice 450 on ebay for much less.

When I bought my SVT4PRO I was luck to get it new at dealer cost, but looking back I wish I would have gotten a smaller amp. I dont ened all those watts. Its the cabs that matter.

Also, if you dont mind carrying 2X410s or a 410 and a 115 then good for you, but I got sick of it really fast. I have not switched to 2X210 cabs and it is plenty loud. I use a BXT210M and (if I ever get it to work) and Eden D210XST. just thought I would put that option out there.

Maybe a 410 and a 210 (of equal wattage rating) would be good, you can take the 210 to practice and both if you need to for a show.

 

If you go 115 and 410 I would suggest useing the 410 if you ahd to pick one.

 

One big thing that gets me about the head is that it only goes to 4 ohms. This keeps you from ever getting 2 4ohm cabs(Unless you wire them and make them 8 ohms together).

 

I worked in a store that carried every ampeg cab, those 2 were my least favorite. I really liked the SVT410HLF(A little too boomy for me, but if you EQ it right its amazing) the BSE410HLF, BXT210M is damn loud but might not fill your size needs for backup, some guys like a big rig behinid them I assume you do also.

 

Now that I think of it, maybe 610 would be great for you, I dont think you need 2 cabs.

 

Jonathan

 

[Macbethstx]

Well after all of your input, I think i'm going to stick with my original plan. For the volume problem there's always a knob for that. I'll just hope that we always play with a PA or small enough place where it can handle.

 

I pretty much know the answer but i need some opinons. Is it better to put the my bass amp with the rhythm guitarist or the lead guitarist?

 

 

 

[Macbethstx]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130080624303&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

 

Wow, I just saw that on eBay and i'm saying it's looking very hard to pass up!

[...]

So are you saving up for this rig because you've played through it already and like it or simply because it looks cool?

 

Your question would lead me to believe that it's the latter.

 

And that's sad.

[_Sweet Willie_]

I put a few options, but in the end I think that maybe you should try the 450H with a SVT410HLF. It has wheels, great low end response, and it is nice cab. But here are some other options.

 

I would suggest getting the BSE410hlf which handles 400watts RMS and has a lower freq range than the 15 or the 410 you mentioned. Also it would be cheaper.

 

I would make your decision based on what sounds right to you. It may be that the HLE 4x10 is the right one sonically. If you try that and also try the ones that JD has suggested, you'll be able to make an informed decision based on what you hear. I know, I know -- call me crazy.

 

Specs matter. But specs should be interpreted within the realm of what you hear.

 

Of course, buying from MF sound unheard is a way to go. Not sure if it's the way you're going, but if it is, it certainly is a way to go.

 

Two paths diverged in a wood, and I took the one through the amplification showroom with my bass on my back and my ears attached to my head...

 

Peace.

--s-uu

 

 

 

[Tom Capasso]

Like Sweet (Frost) Willie, you need to hear these things to make a good decision. Buy from wherever, but listen. The different cabs and combinations sound different. You may like them all; you may find a very specific rig that is you. It's a lot of shipping to return stuff if it doesn't float your boat.

 

As to placement, it sounds like you play in a 4 piece (2 gtrs, bass, drums)? I'm not sure that it matters where you are, though I'm inclined to recommend being closer to the drummer (than to have a guitar rig between you and the drummer).

 

All of the other advice about managing your volume is good stuff - listen well.

 

44 pounds for a head. No thanks - I'd rather have other (lighter) heads (GK?) or spend more for something light and strong (MarkBass, EA, many others).

 

Tom

[JonathanD]

I put a few options, but in the end I think that maybe you should try the 450H with a SVT410HLF. It has wheels, great low end response, and it is nice cab. But here are some other options.

 

I would suggest getting the BSE410hlf which handles 400watts RMS and has a lower freq range than the 15 or the 410 you mentioned. Also it would be cheaper.

 

I would make your decision based on what sounds right to you. It may be that the HLE 4x10 is the right one sonically. If you try that and also try the ones that JD has suggested, you'll be able to make an informed decision based on what you hear. I know, I know -- call me crazy.

 

Two paths diverged in a wood, and I took the one through the amplification showroom with my bass on my back and my ears attached to my head...

 

 

I agree Willie, thats why I said try:) I included other ideas incase his cognitive map didn't currently contain other options. For most people, things need to be mentioned before they understand it is a valid option. If someone only knew one other bassist, they would probably get the same kind of rig as that person, I read the question as asking for other options since he has not had a lot of bass rigs.

 

But yes I agree, go play everything at any stores you can get to.

 

MacbethSTX where are you at, maybe someone can stear you to a place with a good selection. I know the GC and Samash in Indianapolis have crap for cabs.

 

Jonathan

 

P.S. Willy, I like you assimilation of Frosts poem, were you also trying to imply that picking cabs based on sound is the road less traveled?

 

[Macbethstx]

Ok, to cut back on price how does this look?

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/GallienKrueger-400RBIV-Bass-Amp-Head?sku=482589

 

HEAD ^

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/GallienKrueger-410BLXII-4-x-10-Bass-Cabinet?sku=601054

 

4x10 CAB ^

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/GallienKrueger-210BLXII-Bass-Cabinet?sku=601056

 

2x10 CAB ^

[getz out]

What venues have you been playing recently? What have you been using?

[Macbethstx]

I just recently played at a big concert hall where a lot of large bands play... Around 700 people... It was a 10 Watt washburn but it was mic'd.

 

Then I played at a smaller venue for local bands with around 200 people and the same amp was mic'd.

 

also i've played these GK's they sound amazing IMO.

[JonathanD]

One last time, I would buy used.

Also, that GK amp will not be able to hurt the cabs so their mismatch in RMS handeling doens't matter. Are they both 8 ohm cabs? I didnt look at the specs on the cab and amp to hard, but jsut make sure that the ohm load isnt too much.

 

Do you live near a Music Store? Go there and play stuff. I would suggest getting a nice amp and just one cab for now and waiting and adding another cab.

 

Jonathan

[saxofunk]

700 people should have PA support, you would need nothing more than a 210 to be your personal monitor (share with the drummer) and a line to the house.

 

200 people may not require PA support, but you could still get by with a single 210 or 410 cabinet. At modest volume.

 

Just my .02

[getz out]

So, purchase based on sound. Novel idea.

 

Why the 2x10" and the 4x10"?

[Macbethstx]

I don't get what you mean by personal monitar (share with thed rummer).

[getz out]

If you are using sound reinforcement (which you will likely do for any large venue), your amplifier on stage is just there to color your sound to a degree and for you to be able to hear yourself on stage. The drummer usually is the second most interested musician in the band regarding bass.

 

Hence, a personal monitor. I have played stages where I did not have an amplifier; I either used my in-ear wireless monitor or stage (wedge) monitors.

 

Why the 2x10" and the 4x10"?

[saxofunk]

getz nailed it. You need to hear yourself, the drummer needs to hear you, that's all. The audience gets to hear you from the PA. Huge cabinets have their place in history, and they have their place today in select venues. I prefer to think those select venues include roadies to move gear and production companies to pay for it. There's is no need to lug around multiple cabinets plus PA.

 

To hear yourself you need either a nice in-ear monitor system or a small cabinet, perhaps a <AMPEG BXT210M>. To get your sound to the board you will use either an output from your amplifier head or a DI box <SansAmp BassDriverDI>.

 

In summary; One can be a professional, gigging musician with a nice bass, a $200 DI, and a $500 in ear system that all fits in the pocket of a bass gig bag.

 

[Rocky McDougall]

It seems like we sometimes loose sight of the obvious. Many players dream of having a personal sound system that is the biggest, baddest, loudest in the land. Every band, every venue, has different needs at different times. I would think every gigging bass player needs to be versitle. A sound system that can be a small stage monitor and be expanded to a larger system if necessary. A decent head, 2 - 2x10's and maybe a 1x15 should be enough. IMHO

Rocky

[Macbethstx]

Ok, for the in ear system I have always had one in mind but how would I hook it up so I can hear everything including bass? It's sometimes hard to pick some things out, not usually the drums but I played a gig where we only had one guitarist and the amp was on the other side of the stage of me and it was mic'd but the PA system was a good bit in front of us and I couldn't hear the guitar at all.

 

so how do i hook up an in ear so I can hear everything. should i talk to the person who runs the sound at the venue to hook it up for me?

[yourlord]

I would think every gigging bass player needs to be versitle. A sound system that can be a small stage monitor and be expanded to a larger system if necessary.

 

I have it all covered..

 

Small venue rig: (i hate that the new forum format won't properly display larger images, right click and view image to see it all)

 

[oversize image removed - please make this smaller - it is too large - Tom]

 

[i-m-g]http://www.delusionalmind.com/equip/mark3.jpg[/img]

 

Arena rig:

http://www.delusionalmind.com/equip/bobrig_021107_small.jpg

[saxofunk]

Yourlord (notmine) - you're just looking far an excuse to post that 810/215 stack aren't you? If you want to haul it around, that's your back.

 

Mabeth - In-Ears can be complicated things, I oversimplified. A basic in-ear systems would allow for you to hear yourself and/or a generic mix from the soundboard. The best thing out there (AFAIK) is the Axiom system, it gives users individual control over their mix, it's $$$$$.

[Macbethstx]

I know it's not simple, but I don't care if I can control the mix, I just want everything in my ear and however the sound person controls the sound is fine with me.

[getz out]

When I used in-ears, it was dependent on venue. Some sound engineers were thrilled, others less so.

 

I played CBGB's gallery last year with a Gallien Kreuger MB112E, which is a 22 lb., 100-watt, 1x12" combination amp. I was going through the house PA, but I used the little amp to hear myself. The drummer's fill monitor carried enough of my signal for him to hear me.

 

I played Mercury Lounge in Manhattan about a month ago, and I took my Ampeg SVT410HE and Mesa/Boogie 400+. Why? Not for anything but fun. Mercury is a decent sized venue, and even the 4x10" cabinet and 300-watt amp is WAY overkill for that situation.