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BRAIN DRAIN!!!!!


Griffinator

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Oh, My, God, I am burnt. Spent all day yesterday tracking guitar, bass, and vox, half of last night mixing, and most of this morning doing the same.

 

Unfortunately, I can't seem to get this one to really cohese into a solid mix - it still sounds like a bunch of unrelated instruments in the same space.

 

Thoughts, suggestions, observations, et al would be most welcome at this point!

 

Cause and Effect

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Drums are to prominent in a non good way.. crash hi-hats seem out front with snare then toms..(sounds a bit muddy *drums), barely hear the kick. bring rythem guitar up hair.. and that solo needs a good punch vocals sound right on :D

Mind ya listen through winamp =\.. will have a listen through something else shortly

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yip drums to much up front and yes to much hi-hat.

personally stamplicker is about spot on, guitar and vocals up and balance them off with each other,

keep at mate you will get what you want.

best of luck

G

Love life, some twists and turns are more painful than others, but love life.....

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=592101

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I agree:

 

The rhythm needs to come up front. The lead/solo needs to be turned up in the mix. The vocals need to be louder too.

 

Please don't be offended, but the song had a nice ending at 4:11. The outre would be good live, but I coundn't hear any lead of even a melody.

Maybe it was lost in the mix. That's just my opinion though.

 

Then again it would be good to do a 15 - 20 second fade out with that outre.

 

All in all a song to be proud of.

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One more suggesttion. I like to double track my rhythm parts. I record it once with the bridge pickup and once with the neck pickup. Then I pan them hard left and hard right. That opens up the rhythm, wraps it around the listeners head and leaves plenty of space for the bass, vocal and drums. Hell it's worth a try, Velvet Revolver does it all the time on thier recordings.
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Originally posted by Pappy P:

One more suggesttion. I like to double track my rhythm parts. I record it once with the bridge pickup and once with the neck pickup. Then I pan them hard left and hard right. That opens up the rhythm, wraps it around the listeners head and leaves plenty of space for the bass, vocal and drums. Hell it's worth a try, Velvet Revolver does it all the time on thier recordings.

That sounds pretty cool, i'd not heard of that before.
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Originally posted by Pappy P:

One more suggesttion. I like to double track my rhythm parts. I record it once with the bridge pickup and once with the neck pickup. Then I pan them hard left and hard right. That opens up the rhythm, wraps it around the listeners head and leaves plenty of space for the bass, vocal and drums. Hell it's worth a try, Velvet Revolver does it all the time on thier recordings.

Actually, in this particular recording, I double-tracked both guitarists. I panned us hard left and hard right on the primary, and the secondary got a light reverb treatment and got swung about halfway the opposite direction. My idea was to keep the guitars from sounding so much like individuals and more like a pair. Not working out too well, at this point...

 

What I'm trying to figure out, based on your comments, is what you're defining as the "lead/solo" - the actual solo portion, I pushed that thing up as hot as I dared - but there really isn't a "lead" per sec outside of that 45 second moment.

 

As to the outtro/interlude at the end, that's all it ever was supposed to be - an interlude, to leave the listener with a slightly different feeling than just bombing them off on that riff that is, after all, pervasive in nearly the entire song.

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It's kinda funny, now that I've had a chance to let all this sink in...

 

As a guitarist in the band, I'm doing my level best to NOT make the guitars the most prominent feature in the mix - almost an "un-ego" thing - I don't want it to sound like the guitarist mixed the damned thing!

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well you still don't want it to over power the whole thing, but you want it to blend in better =) bring it up some just to help clarify it and not stomp on the vocals, but there's a lead/solo can't remember where (about 3/4's) through that needs that pop to say.. WhooOoOooSh to the listener and then slowly degres them back in their seats =)
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I'm kicking around the idea of making the other guitarist re-track that particular solo - partly because he slopped a couple parts early, partly because I just don't like the tone we wound up with there, and would like to try and get something a little bigger, that might cut through the mix better....
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when I record, I usually allow myself some "recovery time" through the recording - rather than try everything at once, I'll, say, record just bass, drums, guitar and maybe keyboard, then go out for a few hours. Then maybe come back and track vocals and solos, then knock off for a day or two before I try to mix it all down. That way, you can come back to the mix with a fresh set of ears, rather than be fatigued both in hearing and in body.
"I used to be "with it", but then they changed what "it" was! Now what I'm with isn't "it", and what is "it" is weird and scary to me. IT'LL HAPPEN TO YOU!" - Grampa Simpson
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I think yer getting good advice so far about pulling back the cyms, snare, cranking the guitars.

 

I'd just add that I think a timed echo (like a quarter note or half note time value) with feedback would probably help the lead solo sit there better (and bigger, more grandiose).

 

I also feel like I'm hearing more small room sound on the hat than I'd want to, and I think that's what's making it sound not cohesive with the guitars. That's probably not very helpful if there's nothing you can do about the room sound that's been tracked, but if it's leaking into another track that's compressed, maybe that is accentuating the room and could be gated??

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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I am curious how you mic'ed the drums. I agree with the snare and hi-hat being very prominant in the mix. Its not just volume, its really direct and in your face. It doesn't seem to fit in the mix very well. Did you use overhead mics on the whole drumkit to give sense of the overall space?

 

I understand your concern with keeping the guitars in perspective. They are just fine, not too loud but can still be heard. The bass and bass drum aren't there in my opinion, that whole register seems to be a bit weak considering the type of music. Since the guitars have reverb, is it taboo to think the drums could use some reverb to set them back in the mix too since there isn't any room sound?

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Originally posted by Griffinator:

And, after experimenting with gates, among other things, what I discovered...

 

All I really needed to do was install a high shelf on the kick mic at around 2K at -6dB to solve the problem.

Good man - lookin forward to hearing mix2. :thu:

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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OK, so here I am mixing this beast down again.

 

I put in the high shelf on the kick mic, then I sat back and listened in mono, just to get a clear picture of what was happening. After several run-throughs, I rebalanced the vox, cranked the bass up, and added a triggered kick sample to make it really pop. I also added a big chamber verb (about 20%) to the overheads, which really mellowed them out nicely. In about 5 minutes I'll have this version up.

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I decided a long time ago that I won't use a squish on the whole mix until I am sure the mix is absolutely right. Hence, the overall volume level has dropped as I pull back the master volume to prevent clipping. Peaks are about 7-8dB above the rest of the mix right now, and I'll go back and deal with the loudness when I'm satisfied that the mix is finished.
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Yeah that mix is comin along nicely now.

 

2 suggestions for the final tweakage:

 

I'd lose the ambience on the vocal.

 

Some crisper definition on the snare would be real helpful I think, whether using EQ or a bit of exciter.

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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I appreciate that, man! :thu:

 

The guitar issues you're hearing aren't you, they're a fight I've been waging with this mix for three days. I got some great tones out of this old Randall 1x12 combo on MY axe, but my other guitarist uses JB Jr's, and they are much hotter, so he actually overdrove the mic, and I didn't pick up on it right away. So I've been trying to "fix" it ever since...

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Originally posted by Griffinator:

By "ambience" I presume you mean the big 'verb on the chorus vocal?

I shoulda been more specific - what I'm referring to there is that I believe I'm hearing some reverby stuff on the vocal throughout the song.

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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Well, there is a very light 'verb on the verse vocal, and none at all during the bridge (I used a doubler, with no ambience effects, to alter the vocal delivery in congruence with the guitar riff changes) - but there is a heavy one on the doubled vocal in the chorus.

 

I'll definitely try yanking the verbs and see how it affects the mix.

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Originally posted by Griffinator:

Well, there is a very light 'verb on the verse vocal, and none at all during the bridge (I used a doubler, with no ambience effects, to alter the vocal delivery in congruence with the guitar riff changes) - but there is a heavy one on the doubled vocal in the chorus.

 

I'll definitely try yanking the verbs and see how it affects the mix.

Cool! :thu: I bet it'll keep the maximum "raw power" feel that way.

 

Your band sure is lucky to have you so dedicated to making them sound as good as possible.

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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Originally posted by Griffinator:

Well, there is a very light 'verb on the verse vocal, and none at all during the bridge (I used a doubler, with no ambience effects, to alter the vocal delivery in congruence with the guitar riff changes) - but there is a heavy one on the doubled vocal in the chorus.

 

I'll definitely try yanking the verbs and see how it affects the mix.

Cool! :thu: I bet it'll keep the maximum "raw power" feel that way.

 

Your band sure is lucky to have you so dedicated to making them sound as good as possible.

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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