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Sound checking a room


caprae

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Would those of you who have set up systems for live performance go here and give this a look for me?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/get_topic/f/29/t/000492.html

Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren.
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Just a guess... the reason that things sound muddy to you is that the sound bounces off of a lot of hard surfaces, rather than being diffused or absorbed. So the primary sound hits you fromt he direct path of speakers to ear, then the bounced sound hits your ears a few milliseconds behind, unattenuated. Result: mud.

 

An RTA isn't going to show much. You really need a measurement software like SMAART or Spectrafoo or ETF. Problem there is, all of these products require some experience in using them before you can trust the data. If you want to fool around with it, go ahead. But if you need a real answer NOW, hire in a pro. Understand though, that the answer that he gives you is going to have a number of expensive components.

 

Probably the first thing that you can do on your own is re-aim the PA, trying to keep the sound off of the walls. That you can do for free.

 

Oh, another possible cause of mud... sound from the stage being loud enough to be heard along with the PA, coming to the ear that same few milliseconds behind the PA sound.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Bill,

 

I'm guessing you're correct with both of those. I often barely have any drums or guitar in the mix and they like their monitors up. Guess I'm better off playing with speaker position and monitor/amp levels, then go to EQ.

 

That gets me thinking. One of the best, least eq'ed groups we had were too guys on acoustics going through direct boxes. Michael Roe (Lost Dogs) and Michael Pritzl (the violet burning). It sounded great. Got to get the regular band to lower the volume some.

 

Thank you.

Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren.
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<

 

I don't really think any kind of software analysis is going to tell you nearly as much as simply playing a familiar recording through the system & walking the room. I use a jazz singer I recorded many years ago & I can tell everything I need to know about the system in a few seconds just by hearing what happens to the lower mids on his voice. I do a lot of moving stacks around, refocussing them, adding in center clusters & front fills, & just a little bit of EQing.

Get the band to turn down, go to in-ear-monitors, get the venue to hang theater curtains in the back of the room.

 

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser
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Another thing: you have 1/3rd octave EQ on the system? Bypass your channel EQ, flatten the system EQ, warn anybody in the room to watch their ears, & slowly bring the mics up until the system just starts to ring. Ideally this will be a stable tone in the 150 to 250Hz range. (If you get a squeal in the high range, there's a mic to speaker placement problem.) Pull down the frequency which is ringing by 6 db, push the master volume up some more & you'll hopefully get the same note an octave above or below the one you just took out, take the new one down 6 db, bring the master up some more. After 3 or 4 notches you've done all you should do. Those frequencies lowered will be the ones that will cause the worst room resonances when the band is playing. Now you can go about making some taste decisions with music through the system. Do the same thing with the monitors. Make them feedback & take out the first several resonant frequencies, as well as some of those which you removed from the mains.

 

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser
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Another thing: you have 1/3rd octave EQ on the system? Bypass your channel EQ, flatten the system EQ, warn anybody in the room to watch their ears, & slowly bring the mics up until the system just starts to ring. Ideally this will be a stable tone in the 150 to 250Hz range. (If you get a squeal in the high range, there's a mic to speaker placement problem.) Pull down the frequency which is ringing by 6 db, push the master volume up some more & you'll hopefully get the same note an octave above or below the one you just took out, take the new one down 6 db, bring the master up some more. After 3 or 4 notches you've done all you should do. Those frequencies lowered will be the ones that will cause the worst room resonances when the band is playing. Now you can go about making some taste decisions with music through the system. Do the same thing with the monitors. Make them feedback & take out the first several resonant frequencies, as well as some of those which you removed from the mains.

 

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser
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Another thing: you have 1/3rd octave EQ on the system? Bypass your channel EQ, flatten the system EQ, warn anybody in the room to watch their ears, & slowly bring the mics up until the system just starts to ring. Ideally this will be a stable tone in the 150 to 250Hz range. (If you get a squeal in the high range, there's a mic to speaker placement problem.) Pull down the frequency which is ringing by 6 db, push the master volume up some more & you'll hopefully get the same note an octave above or below the one you just took out, take the new one down 6 db, bring the master up some more. After 3 or 4 notches you've done all you should do. Those frequencies lowered will be the ones that will cause the worst room resonances when the band is playing. Now you can go about making some taste decisions with music through the system. Do the same thing with the monitors. Make them feedback & take out the first several resonant frequencies, as well as some of those which you removed from the mains.

 

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser
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Sorry for the multiple post. I submitted it & got a warning that the administrator had imposed something called "Flood Protection" & that I should resubmit in 10 seconds. I did, but I didn't resubmit twice. Gotta say, of all the forums I've been involved with, this one has the most absolutely fucked up software engine behind it. Love you guys, hate the piece of shit application we have to use.

 

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser
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And here I thought it was such good information that it beared repeating. :D:thu:

 

Thank you, everyone. I knew I'd get good and clear advice here. :thu: Looks like I've got my work cut out for me.

 

Oh, and I did see the hacks on the Steely Dan stuff on the other forum. :P

Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren.
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