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24 vs. 22 frets?


AeroG33k

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Just curious which one is more 'usable'. Sacrificing the harmonic over the pickup or having a more usable range? What if you wanted one guitar to cover all tonal ranges and riffs which may require it...but don't necessarily want to give up that sweet spot for a P-90 (or other favorite PU)?

 

Let's hear it! :wave:

-Andy

 

 

"I know we all can't stay here forever so I want to write my words on the face of today...and they'll paint it"

 

-Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon)

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We've covered this before.

 

Note that the harmonics are only in *that* spot while the string is not stopped down. As you fret up the board, the harmonics change places respective to the pickup. ie if you fret at the 1st string 3rd fret (G) the G octave harmonic is above the 15th fret.

 

'Sweet Spots' as generally spoken about, are a misunderstanding of the physics of the string.

 

G.

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The Geoff - blame Caevan!!!

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I figure if you can't say it with 22 frets, you probably can't say it with 24.

 

If you are some speed player who just can'ty seem to find enough places for your fingers, you might need 24.

 

Or maybe switch to mandolin....

 

 

anyway, I'm just an old rhythm/second guitar player, so I have little if any need for that octave. But if you are writing for it, you need to have access to it. Pretty simple. The tone will take care of itself.

 

You may notice that the very best, most special players in the world tend to use stock guitars. It is their -playing- that is special, not their rigs. Once they get a little cash, they tend to buy fancy stuff... electric socks, mohair toothbrushes, and indeed, fancy guitar rigs. But if you go back to their earliest recordings when they were using the same gear as you and I, they pretty much sound the same then as they do now.

 

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They should outlaw solos beyond the 17th fret...especially for people who mostly play them with single coil bridge pickups! ;)

 

I never could figure out the appeal of those ear-piercing, nails-on-the-chalkboard tones?

Yeah...OK...I know it "cuts through the mix" when you crank up your amp and play waaaaaaay down there (or should I say, up there)...

...but it also cuts through everyone's nerves...unless your playing at some nursing home where everyone can just turn down their hearing aids! :)

 

Not to mention the poor dogs, cats, bats and other furry creatures within range, who are probably getting their brains fried buy those high frequencies.! :D

 

Yeah...22 or 24...that's one dilemma I've never had to ponder. I don't think I ever counted how many frets are on each of my guitars.

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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Yes, it does make a difference, although Geoff is perfectly right--since when you fret notes you're actually changing the vibrating length of the string, then the "middle" harmonic of the string changes w/ the notes you play.

 

Yes, 22 fret neck pickups do tend to sound darker. But again, many things come into play. 24 fret guitar do make certain things easier, it's not just the addition of two notes.

 

High registers are not annoying to me. Actually, I keep thinking I want to get a 7-string w/ 22 frets but a hgiher A string instead of a lower B string.

 

Remember, the 6-string guitar as it is, already has a lower-tenor/baritone register.

"Without music, life would be a mistake."

--from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche

 

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Originally posted by MILLO:

High registers are not annoying to me.

Yeah...I also like to hit them every so often, as a contrast to what I may be playing at the 3rd -5th - 7th positions and on the lower strings.

But there are guys that practically spend their entire life mostly playing solos past the 12th fret. :rolleyes:

 

After awhile...that constant "squiggly, squiggly, squiggly noise starts to irritate my ears and my nerves. :)

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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Originally posted by Scott Fraser:

<>

 

Tell that to Jeff Beck.

 

Scott Fraser

OK I WILL: LEE: Jeff please stop that weedley weedley nasty stuff above the 12th fret please!

 

JEFF: SHUT IT LEE, You snivelling little wanna be wanker! why I outa stomp your little cover playin bloody arse!!

 

LEE: Sorry Jeff, Scott made me :eek::D

 

JEFF: Scott, that figures, he can piss off too!

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Thanks for the opinions. Personally, I don't need the 24th fret for my playing style, but once i tried to play a little of patrucci's glassgow kiss and suddenly I ran out of frets... No big deal, but I was wondering if someone had to chose one guitar to cover all bases but also liked the sound of the neck PU where it is on the 22fret guitar, what would you do?

 

That's an interesting thought that the harmonic isn't always there when you fret...I didn't even think of that! :freak:

 

So why does PRS make two identical guitars with both? :confused:

-Andy

 

 

"I know we all can't stay here forever so I want to write my words on the face of today...and they'll paint it"

 

-Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon)

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IMHO it's not just about harmonics but mainly about the spot along the string where the pickup listens.

 

Two identical pickups will sound radically different when one is at the bridge and the other at the neck. Following that, it's just normal to think that moving the pickup around its position at the neck will also modify its tonal response.

 

In general, the standard position of the neck pickup with a 22-fret guitar is considered best although some are willing to compromise in order to gain 2 more frets and added symmetry on the fretboard (because of the mirror image below and above the 12th fret).

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The neck on a C22 is shorter than the C24. Shorter = Stiffer = slightly better tone because the neck is a bit more stable.

 

According to Paul the difference bewteen neck pup locations on the 22 vs 24 are negligable. He was going for a stiffer neck.

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<

 

JEFF: SHUT IT LEE, You snivelling little wanna be wanker! why I outa stomp your little cover playin bloody arse!!

 

LEE: Sorry Jeff, Scott made me

 

JEFF: Scott, that figures, he can piss off too!>>

 

Oh thanks, Lee, somebody just knocked on my door & ran off, leaving a flaming turd initialled "JB". Now I gotta go tell Jeff it's all Miroslav's fault.

 

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser
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Whatever you do, don't step on the turd to put out the fire...

...piss on it. :thu:

 

And while I generally like JB...and I think he is truly a technician beyond compare...

...some of his tones DO get on my nerves from time to time.

Usually when he gets stuck down there around the 24th fret a bit too long. ;)

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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IMO - dump the wanker weedly note up there on the 24th - that's where the pickup is supposed to be!

 

Theories about harmonics on the string when fretting don't do a thing to convince my ears that they aren't plainly hearing a deeper rounder tone from the neck pickup placement that's made possible by limiting the frets to 22.

 

And thank Garsh that SRV, Hendrix, etc. didn't fall for the 24 fret syndrome and sacrifice their tone.

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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Originally posted by Zuben:

DR TAZ I like my full 2 octaves
Maybe I am reading this wrong but 2 full octaves from 2 frets?

 

Peace

Yup, you're reading it wrong. 24 frets make two octaves along each string. 12 semitones per octave.

"Without music, life would be a mistake."

--from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche

 

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<

...piss on it. >>

 

OK, done, but could you get over here & work this out with Jeff? He's really pissed, says you're trying to emasculate him, can't understand why you'd want to take away his favorite part of the neck, wants to know what you suggest for replacing at least half his set which is based on soloing north of the 20th fret, etc. Look, he's a very sensitive guy & this has him pretty upset.

 

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser
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Originally posted by miroslav:

They should outlaw solos beyond the 17th fret...especially for people who mostly play them with single coil bridge pickups! ;)

 

I never could figure out the appeal of those ear-piercing, nails-on-the-chalkboard tones?

Yeah...OK...I know it "cuts through the mix" when you crank up your amp and play waaaaaaay down there (or should I say, up there)...

...but it also cuts through everyone's nerves...unless your playing at some nursing home where everyone can just turn down their hearing aids! :)

 

Not to mention the poor dogs, cats, bats and other furry creatures within range, who are probably getting their brains fried buy those high frequencies.! :D

 

Yeah...22 or 24...that's one dilemma I've never had to ponder. I don't think I ever counted how many frets are on each of my guitars.

Not to harp on this again, miroslav, but Those tones are only obnoxious if you have crappy tone, whether your tone comes from fingers, amps, or guitars. Playing above the 12th fret is an art as much as playing below it or even above the 19th fret.

 

Both my guitars have 24 frets and I love it. I'm not big on string bending to get two octaves (I just don't like the tone), and the extra two frets is just cool to me.

 

Having said that, I'm not sure I'd feel restricted by only 22 frets or not. Generally, if I'm playing a Strat or Les Paul, I'm probably at the guit shop, where I don't care how many frets my guitar has. Unless of course, I'm trying to play above that punk who's playing Enter Sandman for the 8th time in five minutes.

Shut up and play.
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I have two 24 fret and two 22 fret guitars. There are times when I can't play a certain lick because of the lack of the extra frets on the 22 fret guitars. I would prefer my guitars to have 24 frets.
What a horrible night to have a curse.
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Originally posted by Xplorer:

I have two 24 fret and two 22 fret guitars. There are times when I can't play a certain lick because of the lack of the extra frets on the 22 fret guitars. I would prefer my guitars to have 24 frets.

It's a metal thing. :D
Shut up and play.
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