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Wireless???


Durockrolly

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Wireless is an option but in club bands it is so tired and affected.

 

The main thing that I find with wireless is that even the best ($3k units.. are you buying a $3k unit??) use compression and expansion in the circuitry, and the difference is audible. Do you care? If so, wireless may not be for you. Also, consider that the more crap you push that signal through, the less 'true' the signal becomes. Again, if convenience is the over-riding consideration, maybe the slight sound degradation is worth it.

 

I was wireless for years. I use a guitar cord now. Did I get better ears? I don't know. But I prefer the sound of a cord over the sound of any wireless unit that I have used. My bass player brother must disagree... he uses wireless on his rig.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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I've tried Wireless twice. Once when it was "new" and "cool". What it wasn't was reliable. Bad range and faded with obstructions

 

2nd time was funnier. A few years back, I got a call to fill in for a sick guitarist during a tour. The whole band was wireless. (with the exception of the drums and the singer. In the middle of the second song, the audience was treated to disco music on and off. Our mixing board engineer, a gent named Jerry (I can't recall his last name at the moment which is a problem of age and youth, but he is rather well known) took off out of the building and within 5 minutes, ran down the culprit. A CB operator that had an illegal radio that could broadcast on the Wireless frequencies and was running 100 watts. More than enough to over ride the transmitters from the instruments. The local police arrested him and the show went on.

 

I prefer a cable after 40 years playing professionally.

 

Peace

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Ok well I have to say something before I see anymore reference to wireless being thought of as "cool" and "tired" and "affected" all those opinions on it are total bull shit! I have used wireless for many years and never did I think it was cool, or was ashamed to be wireless. I went wireless for lots of reasons and none of them where associated with those things! I use mine in large venues, outside venues, small clubs or where ever we are playing and have never had any problems. Yes I have a back up quality cable if I need it but I never have had to use it because the wireless system failed. We are now using IEM's and they are perfect too. My tone live is as good or better than the next guy.

I prefer wireless after 40 years playing professionally.

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Originally posted by ellwood:

...anymore reference to wireless being thought of as "cool" and "tired" and "affected" all those opinions on it are total bull shit! ....

Hey Lee...

 

You know, I guess that you are allowed to think that my opinions are bullshit, just as I think that any club band guitar player using a wireless rig on a 15x20 stage is bullshit. It is affected, because it serves no useful purpose. It is tired, because we've all seen the guitar player play from the bar, or enter from the dressingroom, etc etc. After 30 years of this, it is a big yawn (at least, to me).

 

I know that you are as concerned with sound quality as I am, and I assure you that if you drag your rig into a studio and A/B your stuff with an without the wireless, you'll like what you hear with the cord. Should not be a surprise to anyone, as most of us know that the instrument/amp chain is always better sounding and more responsive the less junk we stick in the middle. (And I've mentioned before the switch that I have on one of my guitars that takes the wiring harness out of the signal path, and how much better the pickups sound without the pots and caps in line.)

 

And I know that most guitar players have better places to put that money, when I see so many of them want to buy a Les Paul but buy a copy instead, then spend as much or more on a cheap wireless rig.

 

 

And none of this has anything to do with in ears, which is an entirely different thing though in ears could indeed be wireless (but do not have to be, and are much cheaper when hardwired. Drummers and keyboard players take note.)

 

You have every right to be proud of your rig, and every reason to be happy with your sound. But I equally reserve the right to think differently than you.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Originally posted by ellwood:

...anymore reference to wireless being thought of as "cool" and "tired" and "affected" all those opinions on it are total bull shit! ....

Hey Lee...

 

You know, I guess that you are allowed to think that my opinions are bullshit, just as I think that any club band guitar player using a wireless rig on a 15x20 stage is bullshit. It is affected, and it serves no useful purpose. It is tired, because we've all seen the guitar player play from the bar, or enter from the dressingroom, etc etc. After 30 years of this, it is a big yawn (at least, to me).

 

I know that you are as concerned with sound quality as I am, and I assure you that if you drag your rig into a studio and A/B your stuff with an without the wireless, you'll like what you hear with the cord. Should not be a surprise to anyone, as most of us know that the instrument/amp chain is always better sounding and more responsive the less junk we stick in the middle. (And I've mentioned before the switch that I have on one of my guitars that takes the wiring harness out of the signal path, and how much better the pickups sound without the pots and caps in line.)

 

And I know that most guitar players have better places to put that money, when I see so many of them want to buy a Les Paul but buy a copy instead, then spend as much or more on a cheap wireless rig.

 

 

And none of this has anything to do with in ears, which is an entirely different thing though in ears could indeed be wireless (but do not have to be, and are much cheaper when hardwired. Drummers and keyboard players take note.)

 

You have every right to be proud of your rig, and every reason to be happy with your sound. But I equally reserve the right to think differently than you.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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You know Bill and this is the truth, I rarely if ever think your opinions are bull shit! In fact I read every word of you opinions with much interest and usually learn allot from you, especially when you are posting about your profession, I think or hope you know that. I don't play in a 15X20 stage so that is not a issue with me. Buying a cheap wireless is not an issue with me either. I know you think some of the things bands do to interact with their audience is trite and bullshit and if you where in the audience I'm sure you would snicker and criticize what bands do..BUT you know what the majority of the paying audience enjoys what bands do that is a little different. I think that when we are involved in music for along time and we feel we are insiders in it, we tend to be to critical of things done for the audience and comes under the heading or entertainment. I know one thing, it works for us very well. We do not worry about impressing sound professionals,musicians,recording engineers, we worry about impressing audiences,agents,event planners,newspaper entertainment writers If all we had in our audience where these professional sound and professional musicians, we would never have a gig!
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Originally posted by ellwood:

You know Bill and this is the truth, I rarely if ever think your opinions are bull shit! In fact I read every word of you opinions with much interest and usually learn allot from you, especially when you are posting about your profession, I think or hope you know that. I don't play in a 15X20 stage so that is not a issue with me. Buying a cheap wireless is not an issue with me either. I know you think some of the things bands do to interact with their audience is trite and bullshit and if you where in the audience I'm sure you would snicker and criticize what bands do..BUT you know what the majority of the paying audience enjoys what bands do that is a little different. I think that when we are involved in music for along time and we feel we are insiders in it, we tend to be to critical of things done for the audience and comes under the heading or entertainment. I know one thing, it works for us very well. We do not worry about impressing sound professionals,musicians,recording engineers, we worry about impressing audiences,agents,event planners,newspaper entertainment writers If all we had in our audience where these professional sound and professional musicians, we would never have a gig!

Amen Lee, thank god my wife is there to remind me that we are playing for the people and the owners, not ourselves, or other musicians in the crowd. The bass player always uses a wireless, walks around the room, clowns around with the crowd, and most seem to have fun with it.

 

Seems to me both opinions are valid, just from a different perspective.

Once I thought I saw you, in a crowded, hazy, bar........

 

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Actually, my band is looking into wireless for our shows - but then, we play metal, so a little front-end compression before the stomp boxes really isn't going to hurt the overall quality - if anything, it'll save the bassist the trouble of having to add an additional comp.

 

We're not talking about studio recordings here, Bill, we're talking about a live show.

 

Cons of wireless:

 

1) Adds unwanted compression to the signal chain

2) Potential for mid-song failure

3) Possibility (however remote) of someone hijacking your transmission frequency and "changing the tunes", as it were

4) Is "tired and cliche" - I suppose, if the guitarist goes and wanks off on the bar or something...

 

Pros of wireless:

 

1) No more tripping over each others' cords

2) No more stepping on and breaking each others' cords in mid-show

3) No more noise from cords that aren't the best of shape (most likely from being jerked on, stepped on, etc in mid-show)

4) Freedom of motion

 

Seems to me that it's a matter of priority. In the studio, obviously, I'm not going to use a wireless - that would be idiotic. Onstage, it's a convenience, and you don't have to act like a moron just because you have one. Although, I must say, it is a hella lotta fun stage diving with axe in hand in the middle of a song...

 

Of course, if you're doing classic rock covers et al, that's probably an experience that's a bit alien to you...

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Yes Bri! and I know Bill knows exactly what I mean. Is wireless necessary? of coarse it isn't I played for may years without it just like everyone else. The show we do in some ways depends on the ability to move around, myself, and the sax player when he's not playing keyboards, there are things we work into the act, and it is a act, thought out, planned and on purpose. It is our product,it may not be for every band but it is for us, and like I said, it works well always. We like you I imagine get to do pleanty of material that satisfies us as musicians and entertainers, it's what we do.
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Originally posted by Griffinator:

 

We're not talking about studio recordings here, Bill, we're talking about a live show.

 

Of course, if you're doing classic rock covers et al, that's probably an experience that's a bit alien to you...

Why do you keep trying to make me into the guy who plays covers? I've been writing my own material since the 1960s. I can hack my way through covers, and gee, it sure is fun. (Purists beware.... I only get close, I do not guarantee exact covers...) Covers are a great common ground for players to interact. But my bands do originals. (when I have a band.)

 

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Nothing personal here, but I find it annoying when a bar band walks out into the audience and tries to pick up chicks. It seems that I see alot of bands that do this. They are trying to act like rock stars and it just kind of rubs me the wrong way. It just seems contrived these days. Its gotten to the point that if I notice a wireless system, I almost know that later in the night there is going to be a drunk musician walking around the club.

 

All that being said, I am sure at the scale of venues that Ellwood plays, he has his good reasons for going wireless. I know that alot of younger bands that play metal or punk are expected to jump around a bit more than us geezers. But for most classic rock cover bands, the whole walk into the audience and stand on a table thing just rubs me wrong. Call it a pet peeve, as there isn't anything really wrong with it.

 

I don't think that Bill really meant that using a wireless is in itself tired and affected. But the middle aged drunk bass player walking up to girls on the dance floor has definately been played. It would be nice if I never see that again.

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Wireless units are like any kind of gear--they're great when they work.

 

I see Bill's point about hackneyed "wireless antics," and they can be pretty corny when you've seen the same bits a million times, but ya know... Audiences also still pay to see Angus Young dress like a schoolboy and do his "duck walk and spin around on the floor" routine for a reason--it's entertaining, and people like to be entertained.

 

Basically, if it helps you put on a good show that people want to see, why the hell shouldn't you use a wireless on any size stage?

 

Having said this... I do own a wireless but prefer to use a cable 90% of the time for the simple reasons that I don't like buying new batteries all the time, and I'm generally too lazy to set up the extra bit of gear.

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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Originally posted by Griffinator:

...Pros of wireless:

 

1) No more tripping over each others' cords

2) No more stepping on and breaking each others' cords in mid-show

3) No more noise from cords that aren't the best of shape (most likely from being jerked on, stepped on, etc in mid-show)

4) Freedom of motion...

You left one significant "pro" out: A wireless unit greatly reduces the chance of accidental electrocution when touching a microphone while holding your guitar. While I never had the opportunity to play live with a wireless unit, this to me was always the biggest reason to consider making the investment in getting one.

Mudcat's music on Soundclick

 

"Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo-

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"I don't think that Bill really meant that using a wireless is in itself tired and affected. But the middle aged drunk bass player walking up to girls on the dance floor has definitely been played. It would be nice if I never see that again."

 

LOL,well I'm pretty sure, in fact positive that's exactly what he meant, but that's more than ok! See again there is never a way to please everyone in an audience,SO... if the majority of paying customers enjoy what you are doing,return everyweek and bring new people and they return..well I guess pet peeves will just have to remain pet peeves. I always take what other players say about the entertainment part of music with a huge grain of salt, because they tend to be too sophisticated or aloof in their opinions of just plain people having plain old FUN! as always with my band...the people rule! and we take it to the bank.

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Originally posted by SlyFoxx:

http://www.casual-gamers.de/cg/images/postimages/thread_hijacked.jpg

 

Started out with a legitimate question and we a get a dissertation about cheesy bar band tactics. :bor:

So that is YOUR contribution? doesn't look anymore valid than anybody elses. So where is you contribution on wireless then? I must have missed it?
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Originally posted by Mudcat:

A wireless unit greatly reduces the chance of accidental electrocution when touching a microphone while holding your guitar. While I never had the opportunity to play live with a wireless unit, this to me was always the biggest reason to consider making the investment in getting one.
This is an honest fear of yours? You are far more likely to die from some bacterial infection due to unclean beer glasses or some tap/dispenser fungus than you are to die from being shocked on an existing stage where others have played before.

(Unless your own stuff is wired wrong, it which case you'll probably die in rehersal.)

 

And it you really feel that this is a dangerous or potentially dangerous situation, a wiggie from the local dollar store will save you. Just touch one end to your strings and the other to a metal part of the mic body.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Originally posted by Bill@Welcome Home Studios:

And it you really feel that this is a dangerous or potentially dangerous situation, a wiggie from the local dollar store will save you. Just touch one end to your strings and the other to a metal part of the mic body.

 

Bill

I'm not sure he's talking about getting killed from electrocution, but I know from experience that the little zaps from coming too close to the mic while playing (yeah, I tend to eat my mic, so what?) are quite unnerving, particularly if they're strong. So your solution is to put me on another leash, this time to the mic itself? Yikes. I'll take the wireless option...
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Originally posted by SlyFoxx:

http://www.casual-gamers.de/cg/images/postimages/thread_hijacked.jpg

 

Started out with a legitimate question and we a get a dissertation about cheesy bar band tactics. :bor:

The question was answered. So what now? The thread is just supposed to die? I think the things being discussed are quite interesting... especially the part about who you're supposed to please: the people who just want to hear some music or the crotchety, insatiable, musician types.
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WOW!!! I just wanted to know if it would work!!! Now we been Moshing, taking cheesey walks through the crowds, getting electrocuted and dying from bacterial infection!!! I'll stick to the cable.

 

Thanks everybody.

 

Fernando

Fernando

 

If you can't say it in 12 bars... then it can't be said!

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Actually ellwood, you answered the initial post well. Then Bill came in on his high horse and instead of ignoring him you and others decided to indulge his troll-like response.

 

Like Durockrolly said...I'll stick to cable. :)

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