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How big a difference???


The Big G

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Guys I am sure this has been discussed before, but i want to know what views all you guys have on the differnce between say a Epi LP and a Gibbo LP, a Squire strat and a USA Strat, do the differences stack up in the money they ask or can you modify up to the "same" standard and save money.

I would have thought this would be very difficult to do as quality of woods used and at time crafsmenship would be of a lower standard.

I ask this because i have some top end guitars and some not so top end guitars and i dont know if they are at time 3 or 4 times the instruments of their cheaper counterparts but they do cost that much more!!!!! Also I am no guitar tech so i dont strip and rebuild but maybe i should...

Give me you views

Cheers

G :confused:

Love life, some twists and turns are more painful than others, but love life.....

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=592101

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I must say that I don't think my Aria TA-40 is £1500 worse than a Gibson 335.

 

The Squier Tele I've just bought for £99 is pretty damn good with a pickup change.

 

I'm sure that the better quality woods make a difference. I'm sure that guitarists would notice the difference if the two instruments were A/B'd side by side. I'm not sure that anyone else would.

 

There is such a spectrum of tonality used in recordings these days that the electonics seems to swamp out the acoustic properties of the guitar.

 

How often has someone said that they'd been to see So'n'So and he had a great/inexpensive guitar through a great/inexpensive amp and his tone was great/terrible?

 

Apart from all that, it's all subjective. What you like, I may not like and vice versa.

 

For me, I try to get a few reasonable guitars & through pup changes and set-up, attempt to get them to play as well as they can play. I believe I'm approaching that with the guitars I have got.

 

If I had the money, I'm sure I'd own some of the Big Names, but that would be as much for kudos. I'm very happy with how my current guitars play & sound.

 

G.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music

The Geoff - blame Caevan!!!

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This is a good question. I too have been pondering what actually makes a buku $$$$ valued new PRS to a PRS that cost $800-$1000 new. Would they play pretty much the same out of the case?? Are the Electronics in a lower priced PRS different then the top end ones? Is the neck made differently in some way OR is it just all quality of woods? Are the Top of the lines really worth the cost?

What can this strange device be?

When I touch it, it gives forth a sound

It's got wires that vibrate, and give music

What can this thing be that I found?

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Last Saturday a few friends and I were having a jam session in my basement. I have a Squier Std. Strat ($200) and my friend has a Fender American Deluxe Strat (~$1400). We were able to literally compare them side-by-side. As for fit/finish: the hardware on the Fender is far better, the 5-way switch on my Squier feels like it came from a toy while the 5-way on the Fender feels like it came from a high tech industrial machine. The tuners on my Squier aren't that bad but the locking tuners on the Fender would have me spoiled very quickly. The overall body shapes and contours are incredibly similar except for a couple small chamfers and angles here and there that make the Fender a little more comfortable (most motably on the bottom part of the neck joint area).

 

Tone was another story. We played through a Fender Pro Jr. and compared with the tone and volume settings set the same on each guitar. Playing with distortion and just wailing on some power chords they actually sounded fairly similar, a little more crunch from the Fender. The difference was noticed with lead playing. I played through a little lick on my Squier and then the Fender ..... our jaws hit the floor when I played the exact same lick on the "real" Strat. My first words to my friend were "The pick-ups sound like they're on fire!"

 

Overall, we both had to agree that the Squier is actually a sweet little guitar, especially for the money. He suggested some new pups would do wonders for the Squier. That would bring the price to ~$300-350 and for that small investment the Squier would be a solid player for about a quarter the price of a top-line Strat.

 

Bob

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Originally posted by bsd1965:

...Overall, we both had to agree that the Squier is actually a sweet little guitar, especially for the money. He suggested some new pups would do wonders for the Squier. That would bring the price to ~$300-350 and for that small investment the Squier would be a solid player for about a quarter the price of a top-line Strat.

 

Bob

Pick-up, pots and switch upgrade combined with a good set-up will do wonders with a Squire. And you don't even have to spend that much on the electronics considering how good the products from Guitar Fetish seem to be. Their reviews are consistently good and their prices are very low.

Mudcat's music on Soundclick

 

"Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo-

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Well it`s a similar equation to cars, bicycles or computers-items with changeable components-you could buy upgrade items one at a time and put them together yourself and save a good chunk of cash and have something pretty darn nice. That assumes that you`ve got all the time in the world to tinker with it, you have assembly/adjustment skills similar to a company employee, and you don`t count the hassle involved in getting the parts. Once you add all that up it reduces the gap. Add to that the fact that you could be playing instead of sitting on a carpet covered with tools.

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

 

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Mudcat wrote:

...And you don't even have to spend that much on the electronics considering how good the products from Guitar Fetish seem to be. Their reviews are consistently good and their prices are very low.

 

Thanks for the tip Mudcat. I just checked out GF site and thier prices are much lower than what I anticipated spending. My friend with the Strat is a manager in a local music store (mom/pop place, not a chain, he's also thier guitar tech) and he suggested either Lace Sensors or Texas Specials both of which are around $100-150 per set. GF has a "Texas" styled set for less than $50 and I can get a whole "Strat electrical upgrade kit" for ~16 bucks. For $65 there's not a lot of risk involved, I might just place an order today.

 

Bob

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Originally posted by The Big G:

I ask this because i have some top end guitars and some not so top end guitars and i dont know if they are at time 3 or 4 times the instruments of their cheaper counterparts but they do cost that much more!!!!!

There will be some differences...but maybe not as many to would warrant the 3-to-4 times higher price hit.

 

But here's the thing...how do YOU feel about them?

 

See...unless you are focused on speculating for possible resale values...

then if you like the guitar...if it feels nice...if it plays and sounds nice...

...who cares if it's an Epi or a Gibson...or whatever! :thu:

 

Play and be happy! :cool:

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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Originally posted by bsd1965:

Mudcat wrote:

...GF has a "Texas" styled set for less than $50 and I can get a whole "Strat electrical upgrade kit" for ~16 bucks. For $65 there's not a lot of risk involved, I might just place an order today.

 

Bob

Here is a link to a review of these pick-ups at HC. Sounds like this guy was pretty happy with them.

 

I have always thought aftermarket pick-ups were over-priced. If I ever build another guiter I am definitely going to load it with GFS pick-ups.

Mudcat's music on Soundclick

 

"Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo-

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I've been pushing GFS products for about 2 years.

 

The neck pup in the Squier is the GFS Fatbody & it's something else. I have a link to it in the Informal Drop In Thread - page 82.

 

G.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music

The Geoff - blame Caevan!!!

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Guitar55, I don't know that the pups were adjusted at exactly the same height, I know that the Squier's are still at factory settings (I bought it brand new) and I don't believe my friend has adjusted his either (his Strat was also bought new) so they are most likely at factory settings as well. I know that doesn't mean they are exactly the same though. My friend did mention that I could raise my Squier pups a little and that should make them a little "hotter". I'm pretty sure we also have different types of strings although we had put brand new strings on the Squire just a few hours before we made the comparison. As for set-up, neck relief and action seem pretty close on these two as does intonation. He is the guitar tech at the store where I bought the Squier and he set up both guitars.

 

To what seemed to be the point of Big G's dilemma in his original post... wondering whether it's worth modding or super modding these lower models: I think I'm going to give the GFS pups a try to see what I can do for 60 bucks or so. I only spent 200 on the guitar and I could easily spend 150 on "bigger name" pups, 40-50 on new tuners and still more on new electronics. That would all cost as much or more than the guitar. I'm pretty new at this (but enjoying it!) and this is my first electric since I was a kid. I can add locking tuners and new electronics to the Guitar Fetish order and still only spend $106 including shipping. This seems reasonable to me for this guitar.

 

Bob

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Originally posted by bsd1965:

[QBHe suggested some new pups would do wonders for the Squier. That would bring the price to ~$300-350 and for that small investment the Squier would be a solid player for about a quarter the price of a top-line Strat. [/QB]

Yeah, but the difference comes at the end of the line, if and when you try to sell it.

 

The Squier will be of interest to experienced players who know a good guitar when they see and play one.

 

The Fender, on the other hand, will be of interest to everybody.

 

I love doing up cheap guitars, but objectively, I can see that I'm throwing money down a dark pit.

 

I'll never be able to recoup my money on any of my hot rodded cheapies. I think one would be better off saving some more money and getting a brand name guitar that plays and sounds great right out of the box.

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I have to agree with miro, about if you like it, you like and just enjoy and play it and i do, this why i asked, "at times" i cant tell a huge difference from some of my cheaper branded guitars and the more expensive ones, now obviously i like them or they wouldnt be lying around my house. But as a rule of thumb to upgrade a cheaper brand can give you a great guitar but no re-sale value compared to the investment (time included not just money) put in, yet we get a good return from a brand name and generally a good guitar, so why do we buy cheaper end guitars instead of doing what on the face ot it seems sensible and buy the USA fender or Gibbo?? Most of us do it yet generally we accept this is a fasle economy etc... is it the making something average much better? or do we think we just got a bargain !!!!!! and that we cant resist?

Cheers guys

G ??????

Love life, some twists and turns are more painful than others, but love life.....

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=592101

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Originally posted by The Big G:

Most of us do it yet generally we accept this is a fasle economy etc... is it the making something average much better? or do we think we just got a bargain !!!!!! and that we cant resist?

Well, I usually think along the lines of "I want something with humbuckers" or "I want a resophonic" so I'm not that fussed about the actual brand as such. So it's natural to do things up. I also love looking for components on the net or in catalogues (the Stewart MacDonald catalogue, for example is a heap of fun to leaf through)

 

 

Mind you, my next purchase will probably be a Fender P-Bass, simply because it IS a Fender P-Bass and even though I don't need another bass I just love the idea of owning an actual Fender bass for once.

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Vince

i wish i had the inclination to be stripping guitars like yourself and Geoff and Xplorer but i dont think i have it in me or i would be fully down that road, but you have a desire for a fender P Bass, cool, hope you find the right one for a good price mate, it will be sweet. to have something you have admired from afar is always a big draw and can quell the GAS for a good while.

Hope the bass turns up soon

G :D

Love life, some twists and turns are more painful than others, but love life.....

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=592101

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Originally posted by Trucks.Of.Love:

Hey Vince I saw a picture of an Acoustic Resophonic Bass the other day! Screw the fender, buy one of those suckas :D

I've seen pictures of those too.

 

Beats me how it works though... the thing I absolutely LOATHE about my reso (an Epiphone biscuit) is that it has absolutely ZERO bottom end. IIRC, that's "the Resophonic sound" all over.

 

So a bass without any bottom end..?

 

Actually, now that you mention it, I've bought an acoustic bass today! :D It's a Samick, one of these...

 

http://www.samick.co.id/images/medium/gtr-ab2-m.jpg

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Tools is tools. The home owner who buys an industrial grade tool may indeed be wasting his money. On the other hand, do you hobble a craftsman by supplying him with lesser-quality tools, and then imagine that it will not have an impact on his work?

 

To put it another way.... I just bought an engagement ring for the Rock and Roll GirlFriend. I could have bought any old diamond to put in it, or even a non-diamond substitute, a CZ, or even glass. Would she have known the difference? Was the real diamond, round, perfect cut, G color, VS1 flaw rating, no flouresence worth 20-30 times more than a cheaper substiute? Was the platinum worth more than 14 carat white gold?? IT WAS TO ME.

 

Mindset? Possibly. My guitars, amps, stereo, mics, and studio gear are the BEST that I could afford. My carpenter tools are home-owner grade. I figure I must care more about playing guitar than I do about fixing the sink or hanging drywall.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Originally posted by Bill@Welcome Home Studios:

Tools is tools. The home owner who buys an industrial grade tool may indeed be wasting his money. On the other hand, do you hobble a craftsman by supplying him with lesser-quality tools, and then imagine that it will not have an impact on his work?

 

To put it another way.... I just bought an engagement ring for the Rock and Roll GirlFriend. I could have bought any old diamond to put in it, or even a non-diamond substitute, a CZ, or even glass. Would she have known the difference? Was the real diamond, round, perfect cut, G color, VS1 flaw rating, no flouresence worth 20-30 times more than a cheaper substiute? Was the platinum worth more than 14 carat white gold?? IT WAS TO ME.

 

Mindset? Possibly. My guitars, amps, stereo, mics, and studio gear are the BEST that I could afford. My carpenter tools are home-owner grade. I figure I must care more about playing guitar than I do about fixing the sink or hanging drywall.

 

Bill

Exactly Bill!!! and CONGRATUALTIONS TO YOU AND THE R&R GF TOO!! correct me if I'm wrong here Bill, but didn't you say she's a STONES FAN!! if this is so ..she's got to be a keeper! anyway buddy all the very best to you and your lady!! :D:thu:
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Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

Originally posted by Trucks.Of.Love:

Hey Vince I saw a picture of an Acoustic Resophonic Bass the other day! Screw the fender, buy one of those suckas :D

I've seen pictures of those too.

 

Beats me how it works though... the thing I absolutely LOATHE about my reso (an Epiphone biscuit) is that it has absolutely ZERO bottom end. IIRC, that's "the Resophonic sound" all over.

 

So a bass without any bottom end..?

 

Actually, now that you mention it, I've bought an acoustic bass today! :D It's a Samick, one of these...

 

http://www.samick.co.id/images/medium/gtr-ab2-m.jpg

Hey that looks pretty cool!! I was also wondering about the bottom end :confused: But it sure would make people stop and look! :D (maybe to stop and say what the hell is up with that bass it sounds like hes hitting a tin can with a telephone extension cord, but still.... :D )
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Originally posted by Hard Tail:

Originally posted by Trucks.Of.Love:

Hey Vince I saw a picture of an Acoustic Resophonic Bass the other day! Screw the fender, buy one of those suckas :D

If you're ever in NY, stop by and we'll jam on Fender stuff all day. :eek::D
You gotta date!! :) Im sure I could just about manage to 'touch' a fender.. lol
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Bill congrats and i have to say i lean the same way as yourself about home owner tools and guitars (i hate DIY) i love guitars :D

 

Vince looks good mate, nice touch, enjoy bopping around on it :D

 

G

Love life, some twists and turns are more painful than others, but love life.....

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=592101

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Thanks for the kind words, guys. It is hard to believe that after all of these years of being a bachelor I would find the woman with whom I wanted to spend the rest of my life. One who encourages and pushes me to play, rather than expects me to grow up and out of it. Oh, and yeah, she is a huge Stones fan. Definitely the perfect Rock and Roll GirlFriend.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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<

I'll never be able to recoup my money on any of my hot rodded cheapies. I think one would be better off saving some more money and getting a brand name guitar that plays and sounds great right out of the box.>>

 

Sure, but presumably you're modding the budget guitar because you want it to play & sound good to you. IOW you must be planning on keeping it instead of just fixing it up to sell it, so enjoy the improvements & don't worry about the investment. You've fixed a perceived weakness & now have a more satisfying (IOW more musical) axe.

 

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser
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