Metal Players, how do you rehearse?

[Xplorer]

Originally posted by ellwood:

Right on Picker,that was supposed to be the tenor of the post! or does or can Brian Selzer practice his parts without slap-back? (the question really asks also, if you can rehearse at low volume IS it EFFECTIVE rehearsal time? or have all the effects, slap-back,distortion,compression,over dimed amps.... become so much a part of certain kinds of music the they MUST be used during practice time?

I think the simple answer would be, "No". Maybe that seems to be an edgy question because it's an obvious "NO" to metal players. It shouldn't be assumed that you know metal though, hence the post. Right?

[Justus A. Picker]

Originally posted by ellwood:

Right on Picker,that was supposed to be the tenor of the post! or does or can Brian Selzer practice his parts without slap-back? (the question really asks also, if you can rehearse at low volume IS it EFFECTIVE rehearsal time? or have all the effects, slap-back,distortion,compression,over dimed amps.... become so much a part of certain kinds of music the they MUST be used during practice time?

It's the same in recording. The effects can change the way you play, but often sound better if added to/mixed with an uneffected tone when you're mixing. I'd rather record dry, but for some things it just isn't feasible.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Right! I sure don't!! hence.......the question

[Xplorer]

Originally posted by ellwood:

Right! I sure don't!! hence.......the question

Well, we can't fault you for your ignorance if you're asking the question. It is strange that the first thing you said was, "I don't want to upset anyone". What made you assume you would? Hmmmm....

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Xplorer:

Originally posted by ellwood:

Right! I sure don't!! hence.......the question

Well, we can't fault you for your ignorance if you're asking the question.

Right you sure can't or should not!

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Xplorer:

Originally posted by ellwood:

Right! I sure don't!! hence.......the question

Well, we can't fault you for your ignorance if you're asking the question. It is strange that the first thing you said was, "I don't want to upset anyone". What made you assume you would? Hmmmm....

Because I anticipated smart ass replies, to a perfectly legitimate question, and I guess I was in part correct. Actually what got me thinking about it at all was last Sundays visit to GC. There was a guy in there really cranked up into a big stack and they made him turn it way down. what I heard him playing after that at low volume, made me wonder if it was even worth the effort to practice.

[Xplorer]

Originally posted by ellwood:

Originally posted by Xplorer:

Originally posted by ellwood:

Right! I sure don't!! hence.......the question

Well, we can't fault you for your ignorance if you're asking the question.

Right you sure can't or should not!

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Xplorer:

Originally posted by ellwood:

Originally posted by Xplorer:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ellwood:

Right! I sure don't!! hence.......the question

Well, we can't fault you for your ignorance if you're asking the question.

Right you sure can't or should not!

---

[Xplorer]

What would make someone "anticipate smart ass replies, to a perfectly legitimate question"? That doesn't sound right. Maybe from experience your are anticipating frustrated responses to dumb-ass questions.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Well actually it sounds right IF you are not a dumb ass. If you are then it doesn't sound right, I noticed pleanty of people didn't think there was anyting at all wrong with it.

[jdsony]

Good players should be able to sound good no matter what their setup. As a band we practice at the same volume we gig at. On my own I personally just use headphones in my PC and the amp simulation software Amplitube. It's no replacement for a real amp and it lacks a lot of the harmonics you get from playing a cranked up Marshall JCM 2000 with a Tubescreamer. It's not a problem practicing at low volumes and if it sounds 'good' in that situation it will only sound better when you play for 'real'.

 

The more I learn, the more I see how your sound is a LOT in your playing and the tone is in your fingers. Louder volume and better equipment highlight the best parts of your playing (in some cases revealing too much).

 

You can practice Metal without distortion but depending on the song you can end up losing a lot of the sound you are going for and become bored. Practicing on an acoustic will do little for you and I agree that you will have to unlearn habits especially with more complex pieces. That said, If you can play it on acoustic easily then you should be able to breeze through on electric.

[Xplorer]

Originally posted by ellwood:

Well actually it sounds right IF you are not a dumb ass. If you are then it doesn't sound right, I noticed pleanty of people didn't think there was anyting at all wrong with it.

I'm not talking about the question. I was trying to figure out why you would expect to upset people.

 

Anyway, you can call me a dumb-ass if you like, it doesn't really matter. I'm not going to continue this discussion with you Elwood. Have a nice afternoon!

[The Bear Jew]

I didn't take offense at Ellwood's questions at all.

 

Now, granted, while I get the impression that Ell (mind if I call ya Ell?) isn't a big fan of heavy metal and may possibly have some negative associations with the genre, I didn't get any unpleasant vibes from his initial post.

 

He asked questions about something he doesn't understand in order to gain a greater depth of knowledge and a better frame of reference. I would say that's a good thing.

 

He and I definitely don't always see eye-to-eye on social and musical issues, but I respect his knowledge and experience. I often get the impression that he has defined opinions about certain things that will not be swayed no matter what (i.e. punk rock, etc, etc.), and that's fine.... we can agree to disagree. I still think he's probably a cool guy, and, for what it's worth, I think we'd get along great if we met in person.

[Xplorer]

Originally posted by jdsony:

Good players should be able to sound good no matter what their setup. As a band we practice at the same volume we gig at. On my own I personally just use headphones in my PC and the amp simulation software Amplitube. It's no replacement for a real amp and it lacks a lot of the harmonics you get from playing a cranked up Marshall JCM 2000 with a Tubescreamer. It's not a problem practicing at low volumes and if it sounds 'good' in that situation it will only sound better when you play for 'real'.

 

The more I learn, the more I see how your sound is a LOT in your playing and the tone is in your fingers. Louder volume and better equipment highlight the best parts of your playing (in some cases revealing too much).

 

You can practice Metal without distortion but depending on the song you can end up losing a lot of the sound you are going for and become bored. Practicing on an acoustic will do little for you and I agree that you will have to unlearn habits especially with more complex pieces. That said, If you can play it on acoustic easily then you should be able to breeze through on electric.

I totally agree.

 

Most of the feel that is lost when playing unplugged or without dirt comes from right hand and picking technique.

[Dr. Ellwood]

"I think we'd get along great if we met in person." That IS a guarantee!

Ell is always OK!! Lord knows I have been called worse (and recently too)

[Braxat]

ahaha lets get back to the right track guys, it was a honest question, as said, i aslo think ellwood was just looking to expand his knowledge a bit, i did not get any " attitude " from his initial post or nething. =] all happy, sing along now!

 

(With cookie monster voice )

IF

YOU

WANT

PEACE

PREPARE

FOR

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR

[Dr. Ellwood]

"I'm not talking about the question. I was trying to figure out why you would expect to upset people."

 

Looks like I was right doesn't it.

[MILLO]

So much attitude from everywhere

[Justus A. Picker]

Originally posted by Xplorer:

Originally posted by ellwood:

Well actually it sounds right IF you are not a dumb ass. If you are then it doesn't sound right, I noticed pleanty of people didn't think there was anyting at all wrong with it.

I'm not talking about the question. I was trying to figure out why you would expect to upset people.

 

Because experience has shown that some metal fans are extremely defensive about the music they like. If a post contains the word "metal" but does not contain the word "awesome" they get tense.

 

Whether or not all that head banging is also the cause of poor reading comprehension has not been researched.....

[Xplorer]

Originally posted by Justus A. Picker:

Originally posted by Xplorer:

Originally posted by ellwood:

Well actually it sounds right IF you are not a dumb ass. If you are then it doesn't sound right, I noticed pleanty of people didn't think there was anyting at all wrong with it.

I'm not talking about the question. I was trying to figure out why you would expect to upset people.

 

Because experience has shown that some metal fans are extremely defensive about the music they like. If a post contains the word "metal" but does not contain the word "awesome" they get tense.

 

Whether or not all that head banging is also the cause of poor reading comprehension has not been researched.....

...maybe the headbanging and comprehension is directly related to tooth loss. Where do those teeth end up?

[Gruupi]

Slightly off the topic is just in general I prefer to practice with my real setup as much as possible. So much of my technique is tied into what the overall sound is that I find it unproductive to practice an electric without an amp. There are things I can learn otherwise but I am very tone conscious and don't play much where I am not absorbed in the overall sound.

 

So much of what you are doing with your fingers ties in alot with how the guitar and amp are reacting. The way I would approach a song or improvisation on acoustic is alot different than what I would do on electric. Playing clean verses with a sustaining lead tone also affects what I am going to play.

 

I would think that metal players are as concerned with anyone with the sound they are getting, not just the note choices. I mean the whole heavy distortion thing is indemic to that style of music. That doesn't mean every single heavy song has to be distorted. I would be concerned with the hearing of anyone that plays at loud volumes with any regularity however. I intend to enjoy music till I die, I don't want to ruin my ears at this young age (46 hehe).

[Xplorer]

I think the point Ellwood was trying to make (which he clarified for me), is: "what's the point in practicing metal at low volumes when the purpose of metal in general is to make noise."

 

As he put it, is it "even worth the effort to practice"?

[Gifthorse]

Lee how loud do you play with your band?

 

I mean is it loud enough to feedback from looking at your amp?

 

I mean can you be 5 feet away from your amp and turn around say fretting an E on the D string and have it immediatly kick into feedback?

 

That was my problem with my amp. I really couldn't get it loud enough for it to do shit like that. I mean I have to be able to sing, and I don't want to drown out the band. I would end up using more distortion than I wanted to on purpose to be able to get feedback. I know the solution is probably a pedal. Doesn't matter right now, but my buddy Don told me that all the guys with great tone live play insanely loud.

 

I think I would agree with that, I am not sure if I play insanely loud though when I play electric. I mean I would love to if I didn't have to sing.

 

Hey how much are those ear thingy's again??

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by Xplorer:

I think the point Ellwood was trying to make (which he clarified for me), is: "what's the point in practicing metal at low volumes when the purpose of metal in general is to make noise."

Which leads me directly back to my original issue - that "making noise" isn't necessarily the purpose of metal in general...

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by flagshipmile:

Lee how loud do you play with your band?

 

I mean is it loud enough to feedback from looking at your amp?

 

I mean can you be 5 feet away from your amp and turn around say fretting an E on the D string and have it immediatly kick into feedback?

 

That was my problem with my amp. I really couldn't get it loud enough for it to do shit like that. I mean I have to be able to sing, and I don't want to drown out the band. I would end up using more distortion than I wanted to on purpose to be able to get feedback. I know the solution is probably a pedal. Doesn't matter right now, but my buddy Don told me that all the guys with great tone live play insanely loud.

 

I think I would agree with that, I am not sure if I play insanely loud though when I play electric. I mean I would love to if I didn't have to sing.

 

Hey how much are those ear thingy's again??

Flag, yes it's VERY loud, but remember the venue we play in all the time is VERY large. And we have a keyboard player that is very FULL sounding in fact his sound is huge, so playing guitar with him makes me play at high settings. The 50 watt Marshall on the normal channel is at full open and my guitars are at 1/2 to 3/4 open, with the Hbugger guitars I can pull up only the volume go on the neck pickup and get instant sweet feed back all day long. The Klon is in the mix all the time now on the normal channel at it is driving the Marshall into overdrive and lets everything happen dynamically from the guitar volume setting alone. With the Strats I do the same thing, but remember along time ago I talked about always using a very old reliable Shure mono six channel mixer... both types of guitars go into that mixer first, the Hbugger channel is set lower, the single coil instrments are set higher.. I get the same kind of dynamics out of the single coils that I do with the Hbuggers. The volume we spoke of is not even addressing a very full and accomplished drummer and the bass player runs two SVT bottoms and a SVT head and it through the PA subs. Yes it's loud but more than that it's very full sounding. The guitar player (ME) has got to play full out nearly to stay in the mix where I should be. It works well. The IEM's we chose total where around 1200.00. If you want to have the same mix in everyones ears you can just use one transmitter and individual body packs, but if you want different mix in each singers ears you have to buy a transmitter for each singer ...we chose individual transmitters for each person the drummer likes to use just one and still have one floor wedge that carries the instrument mix, the best investment a vocal band could make! LINK: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/P6TRE3/

[Guitarzan]

it isn't noise. no more than distortion tones from a humbucker equipped rock guitar is noise compared to a clean jazz box.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by guitarzan:

it isn't noise. no more than distortion tones from a humbucker equipped rock guitar is noise compared to a clean jazz box.

COME ON ....FEEL the noise!

[Guitarzan]

live the noise, be the noise

aarrrrrgh

..wait, that is a pirate sound...

[Dr. Ellwood]

It's OK though... KEEF is going to play a pirate..so somehow it's got to be ok!

[Guitarzan]

arrrrrrr