AeroG33k Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 For the first time, I noticed my guitars intonation is off. Quite noticably so, but I didn't change anything since it was set last time it got a set-up, but the strings got really old and crusty. It went through some temperature changes too, but I don't think that should affect intonation as much as the neck (which has bowed only very slightly in the past couple months, nothing terrible) Does the environment really affect intionation that much, or are my ears just getting better? It's probably the old strings isn't it? Also, I need a new nut, badly! (ok, bring on the puns). But I was thinking, bone/graphite nuts are pretty expensive, right? (or so I was told from a guy who said he'd have to specially carve one). Since I play a lot of "open" chords, wouldn't the buzz feiten system be worth the extra bucks since that includes a new nut? The only thing I'm concerned about is that it needs a new tuner, which makes me keptic. Thoughts? -Andy "I know we all can't stay here forever so I want to write my words on the face of today...and they'll paint it" -Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Yes, weather will affect intonation since humidity levels will often change the neck relief which either lengthens or shortens the neck. Old crusty strings will not intonate properly either. What's wrong with the nut? Why do you need a new one? "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappy P Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 A proper set up should not be expensive. But well worth the money. I think $50 to $100 sounds resonable (depending on how much needs to be fixed). Find a Gutiar Tech at a local music store. However, I just set up my Squire Strat myself using this book by Dan Erhlewine. How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great! It covers nut repairs/adjustments and intonation. He also talks about the Buzz Feiten system in his book. http://ec3.images-amazon.com/images/P/0879306017.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg www.birdblues.com My Stuff On Sound Click Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Change your strings. I've seen a perfectly set guitar, go way out and then be instantly "repaired" simply by putting on new strings. As the strings age, the intonation will get progressively worse. Don't touch any settings until you've changed the strings. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trucks Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Originally posted by A String: Change your strings. I've seen a perfectly set guitar, go way out and then be instantly "repaired" simply by putting on new strings. As the strings age, the intonation will get progressively worse. Don't touch any settings until you've changed the strings. Ditto Soundclick Myspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbach1 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 The Buzz Feiten system is what it is. I've played a couple guitars that had it installed. I didn't find it all that amazing but did notice the difference when I went home and played my own guitars without the adjustments. Certainly an improvement but not so much that it makes me run out and have it installed on my guitars. I do think that if you have that system put on one of your guitars, you will need to do it to all of them because your ears will hear the difference, at least in a quiet environment. I guess we are all a bit anal about tuning and intonation as well we should be. However, I love my Gretsch and the intonation is close but not dead on and not adjustable. Maybe close can be good enough. bbach Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappy P Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Well yes. Definately try new strings first. That's the first step anyway when setting the intonation or setting up a guitar. www.birdblues.com My Stuff On Sound Click Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarPlayerFL Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Originally posted by Gabriel E.: Yes, weather will affect intonation since humidity levels will often change the neck relief which either lengthens or shortens the neckMy Les Paul, which has not had the truss rod adjusted in years, has the 1st and 6th strings buzzing a little when played open. The action is fairly low. The past 3 weeks it has been incredibly humid for California and I don't have air conditioning. This has probably affected it. I have put on a medium gauge pack of Dean Markley .011s and it has fixed the problem. (And Dean Markley's have more tension than most strings.) A Jazz/Chord Melody Master-my former instructor www.robertconti.com (FKA GuitarPlayerSoCal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILLO Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 New strings. The changes in humidity/neck warping may call for a truss rod readjustment. When it comes to bridge intonation, you can do that yourself w/ a quality tuner. Spend money on a quality tuner (like a Peterson), the aforementioned book by Dan Erlewine, or the "Guitar Player Repair and Maintenance Guide", or somethinglike that, by Erlewine, too. And get to work!... and save your dough. Either that, or spend the $50-100 bucks every year, if not twice a year on setups. Changing strings, adjusting truss rod and bridge saddles should be the solution, and you can do all that yourself. Graphite nuts are simply more slippery than plastic nuts. That's why they're "good"--your stings are not supposed to get stuck (they still do). Once your guitar is all setup, just lube your nut... or have a chick do it for you. Guitar setup gurus: would this be right? "Without music, life would be a mistake." --from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche My MySpace Space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroG33k Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 Well, yeah I know this is how a set-up works. I have yet to do one myself and I'll start that when I finally get a cheaper knock-around guitar (that rondo I've been looking at). I was just surprised that intionation can go out of whack without actually changing anything. But seeing how little the saddles need to move, little changes like strings losing tension and neck bowing even slightly would probably do it. I need a new nut because the nut slots dug in very deeply (almost all the way down to the height of the first fret!) and it was fixed twice already by 'filling in' the slots. It worked well for a while but now the strings get stuck when tuning almost every time. Tuning stability isn't what it used to be, and I'm sure the grover tuners are working fine. -Andy "I know we all can't stay here forever so I want to write my words on the face of today...and they'll paint it" -Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gifthorse Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 The Buzz Feiten system is what it is. I've played a couple guitars that had it installed. I didn't find it all that amazing but did notice the difference when I went home and played my own guitars without the adjustments. Certainly an improvement but not so much that it makes me run out and have it installed on my guitars. I do think that if you have that system put on one of your guitars, you will need to do it to all of them because your ears will hear the difference, at least in a quiet environment. I guess we are all a bit anal about tuning and intonation as well we should be. However, I love my Gretsch and the intonation is close but not dead on and not adjustable. Maybe close can be good enough. I can totally see your understanding of this. I have a feeling if I had a guitar with the buzz on it I would be unable to go back. I would have to get all new tuners for my 12 string too. Get it set up by a good tech. Probably weather changes. You didn't change any of your guages did you? Certain guitars are more sensitive to that crap. Taylors are for sure. My other guitarist has an Alvarez Yari that never seems to have problems with that. He hasn't had a setup in 9 years. But with my cheap Taylor you could probably predict a tornado with the thing based on its intonation. http://flagshipmile.dmusic.com/ http://www.myspace.com/gifthorse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroG33k Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 But with my cheap Taylor you could probably predict a tornado with the thing based on its intonation. lol! -Andy "I know we all can't stay here forever so I want to write my words on the face of today...and they'll paint it" -Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Red 67 Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I had to relax the truss rod on my Tele just the other day. CA has got allot of water in the air right now. Big Red's Ride Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gifthorse Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 When I say my cheap Taylor I am referring to a Big Baby which is made out of balsa wood but it has a great build/playability and tone. VERY sensitive. All Taylors are, but the ones with finishes on them stay intonated longer with weather changes. I can attest they aren't like that Alverez one as far as stability but they sound amazing when they are setup good, and they are louder. But when you use a pickup, than that goes out the win-der (window). I like to say winder instead straightfaced mostly. http://flagshipmile.dmusic.com/ http://www.myspace.com/gifthorse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILLO Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Originally posted by AeroG33k: Well, yeah I know this is how a set-up works. I have yet to do one myself and I'll start that when I finally get a cheaper knock-around guitar (that rondo I've been looking at). I was just surprised that intionation can go out of whack without actually changing anything. But seeing how little the saddles need to move, little changes like strings losing tension and neck bowing even slightly would probably do it. I need a new nut because the nut slots dug in very deeply (almost all the way down to the height of the first fret!) and it was fixed twice already by 'filling in' the slots. It worked well for a while but now the strings get stuck when tuning almost every time. Tuning stability isn't what it used to be, and I'm sure the grover tuners are working fine. Is that a Schecter? Ibanez? Do you know the material the nut is made of? "Without music, life would be a mistake." --from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche My MySpace Space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroG33k Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Schecter. Very sure it's plastic. I thought it was graphite when I got it, but it wasn't nearly as durable as graphite would have been...it doesn't seem like it's lubricating either, it just seemed like pulverized plastic when the strings were off. -Andy "I know we all can't stay here forever so I want to write my words on the face of today...and they'll paint it" -Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILLO Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 If you go to http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/necks/necks.cfm?fuseaction=stringnut you'll see a few options. I'm not saying "buy from them", but I guess that can give you an idea of a few things available. Buena suerte. "Without music, life would be a mistake." --from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche My MySpace Space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baronedo Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I agree with the previously respondents. Change your strings first as old and worn strings will not intonate properly. After you've changed the strings, I suggest you check the guitar adjustments indicated below: Guitar Adjustments 1. Check the neck curvature and adjust it as follows. Tune the guitar and then put a capo on the first fret, depress the highest fret of the Low E string and with a .010 inch feeler gauge, check the clearance between the top of the 8th fret (i.e. 8th fret is about half way down the neck) and the bottom of the low E string. If the gap is less than .010 inch, the truss rod is too tight, which causes the neck to bow up toward the strings. Correct this by gently turning the truss rod screw counter-clockwise, no more than 1/8 turn at a time. If the gap is more than .010 inch, the truss rod is too loose, which causes the neck to bow away from the strings. Correct this by gently turning the truss rod screw clockwise, no more than 1/8 turn at a time. Retune, recheck and adjust to get a .010 inch gap, which will allow the neck to be set up for a low action, but still with enough bow to prevent fret buzzing. Note, if the truss rod is hard to adjust, dont force it. Rather, loosen your strings to alleviate pressure on the rod, then try to adjust it, then retune and check. When you have completed this adjustment, remove the capo. 2. Next, if your guitar has a trem, tune the guitar and check the amount of tilt on the trem bridge plate. If you have changed string gauges, the new strings may have moved the amount of tilt on this bridge plate, which can inhibit up tremming or down tremming. I set up my trems as recommended by Fender by measuring the gap between the bottom rear of the trem bridge plate and the top face of the guitar body. I try to get this gap to about 1/8 inch, which allows adequate tremming in both directions. To increase the gap, loosen the tension on the trem springs by removing the rear cover plate and turning the trem string bracket screws counterclockwise, then retune the guitar and re-measure. To decrease the gap, tighten these screws, retune and re-measure. 3. Next, with a straight measuring edge, check the string height gap from the top of the highest fret of each string to bottom of the string. Adjust the string saddles to get proper clearances. For my taste, I set the gap of my unwound strings (i.e. Hi E, B, and G) a little over 1/16 inch and the wound strings (D, A, Low E) about 3/32 inch (the wound strings need more clearance as their vibration path is wider). I use the above gaps as a guideline but I am striving to get a clean acoustic tone with no buzzing over the entire neck at the lowest possible string heights, so let you ears guide you. It is amazing how much easier and cleaner a guitar plays and sounds after a more uniform string height adjustment. 4. Lastly, check the string length/intonation of each string with an electronic tuner. Do his by playing the 12th fret harmonic note and then comparing it to the 12th fret octave note when played. If the note plays sharp compared to the harmonic, the string is too short so lengthen it by turning that string length bridge saddle adjustment screw clockwise. If the note plays flat compared to the harmonic, the string is too long so shorten it by turning that string length bridge saddle adjustment screw counter-clockwise. Retune and check until the intonation of each string is on. 5. After you set the intonation, it can change your string heights so go back to steps 3 and then 4 to recheck and readjust string heights and lengths if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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