I Have a Question and I Feel Stupid......

[A McLeod III]

......for even asking it but if one never ask, one will never know the answer.

 

I hear a lot of people saying they have a "tube driver" or a "blues driver" on their pedal boards. I've heard the sound described as "a tube amp with weak or old power tubes pushed at a high volume level." Isn't that just distortion and can't you get that sound out of most multi fx stomp boxes? Also, isn't that the sound that Caesar Diaz modded Fender amps to get or the circuit mods Alexander Dumble/Dumble amps used to get "that sound" from his tonally fantastic but way over-priced amps ? Don't get me wrong. I love "that" sound but do you have to buy a pedal called a "Tube Driver" or a Dumble to get it?

 

Now, I've got 2 songs posted over at my SoundClick site - "It's Gonna Rain Again" and "Avion". To me, they are variations of this theme. Take a listen and tell me if that sound is the "Tube Driver" sound. I used my plain Jane Zoom 505 to get it running it through my Line 6 Spider. I am a nit-picker sometimes and that somehow tends to take away from my musicality but I really like to understand things. I guess that's the educator in me. Here's the link:

 

Archie\'s Music @ SoundClick-Listen to "Gonna\' Rain Again" and "Avion" for that sound ! Thanks for any help !

[Gifthorse]

Cool Archie. I am enjoying both songs. Excellent playing.

 

The second one is you singing? I love this gospel stuff. Cool phrasing.

 

Like your playing in the first one, nice tones from that line 6 crap!!! Just kiddin, I think it is awesome too, I love my Guitar port.

 

Cool dude you rock man, I love that gospel stuff. For a while my radio was broken and that is the only station I got. Some Detroit station with a gospel choir. I would listen every Sunday by chance on my way to visit my family. Always alot of coolness..

[A McLeod III]

Originally posted by flagshipmile:

Cool Archie. I am enjoying both songs. Excellent playing.

 

The second one is you singing? I love this gospel stuff. Cool phrasing.

 

Like your playing in the first one, nice tones from that line 6 crap!!! Just kiddin, I think it is awesome too, I love my Guitar port.

 

Cool dude you rock man, I love that gospel stuff. For a while my radio was broken and that is the only station I got. Some Detroit station with a gospel choir. I would listen every Sunday by chance on my way to visit my family. Always alot of coolness..

Thanks man for the listen and the compliment. I guess my gospel roots are definitely showing. (just like these gray ones on the top of my head :LOL: )

 

Now back the topic. Is that a tube driver sound?

[Gifthorse]

Couldn't tell you!!

[Gruupi]

You probably need to try out the Tube Driver with your amp and let your ear be the judge. Your Line 6 Spider is not going to sound like Dumble just by adding a pedal. All distortion pedals, amps, and guitars in the signal chain are going to sound different. Your fingers are going to have a big influence also.

 

Your question isn't stupid at all. But the Tube Driver, Blues Driver, Cesar Diaz modded Fender, and a Dumble are all completly different animals. I know Eric Johnson uses a Tube Driver for his "Violin Tone" which is a pretty heavy distortion sound. I have tried out a few of these pedals and have never been able to get them to sound good with my setup. I do get good results however with the tube driver model in my Line 6 Pod XT Live.

 

I just listened to your clip and I am impressed with your playing and tones. I would not think any of the amps or pedals you mentioned really touches on the great clean sound you are getting. The pedals and amps you listed are mostly for distorted and higher gain sounds. Of course at lower gain settings maybe these items will get that sound, but no, you don't need any of these things to get a great sound. Your Zoom/ Line 6 setup sounds good to me, which goes to show its not the equipment, its the player that gets a great tone.

[A McLeod III]

Originally posted by flagshipmile:

Couldn't tell you!!

Well, Well Well. Thanks again anyhow for the words of encouragement

[A McLeod III]

Originally posted by Gruupi:

You probably need to try out the Tube Driver with your amp and let your ear be the judge. Your Line 6 Spider is not going to sound like Dumble just by adding a pedal.sounds.

Thanks Gruppi and you're right- I might need to borrow my friends pedal and see what all the fuss is about.

 

And in defense of a meager Line 6 Spider 112. The blues model (with a little tweaking) will give you a very similar sound and I also have a Carr Rambler 112 that will yield that sound pretty easily in Pentode mode. In spite of what most guitarist snobs say about Line 6 amps, for what they are, they do a pretty damn good job. I've always been really impressed with the Spider for the incredible Cleans you can get from it. I have a Vetta too. Me and her have a Love/Hate relationship. That's another post by itself.

[Dr. Ellwood]

It sure is NOT Archie. I didn't hear anything on those tracks that was anything like a TubeScreamer. I didn't hear any kind of driven sound and no sustain of any kind. The TubeScreamer when used with a tube amp is rich in harmonics and overtone, it's a sweet fat sound. The combination of the tube amp and the TS is a warm sound with no brittleness to it. Nice job on the tracks but if you where trying to get the TS dynamics you didn't.

[A McLeod III]

Originally posted by ellwood:

It sure is NOT Archie. I didn't hear anything on those tracks that was anything like a TubeScreamer. I didn't hear any kind of driven sound and no sustain of any kind. The TubeScreamer when used with a tube amp is rich in harmonics and overtone, it's a sweet fat sound. The combination of the tube amp and the TS is a warm sound with no brittleness to it. Nice job on the tracks but if you where trying to get the TS dynamics you didn't.

So the sound of a Tube Screamer is more like between a "fuzz tone" and "full on distortion" - kind of like what I can get out of a Boogie Triple Rec for example. Can you suggest a recording or an artist aside from Eric Johnson that uses a Tube Driver or Screamer that I can use for a reference? Anything Eric does is too "other-worldly" (in a good way) to come from a stomp box.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Sure, pretty much anything by Steve Ray Vaughn and especially the live concert tracks. Another box you might want to read up on is the Klon Centuar, I have one and it's my favorite peddle, it's a clean boost.

[A McLeod III]

Originally posted by ellwood:

Sure, pretty much anything by Steve Ray Vaughn and especially the live concert tracks. Another box you might want to read up on is the Klon Centuar, I have one and it's my favorite peddle, it's a clean boost.

Thanks for that info. I have a "Best Of" Stevie Ray CD (the one with the infamous out take of "Little Wing" on it plus I have a DVD of Stevie Ray with live vignettes of some of his performance. Finally, I think I am getting a true idea of what a "Tube Screamer" or "Tube Driver" is. I like a clean sound for most things and just simple changes in attack will alter the tone color and timbre of a guitar. (Strats in particular.) I do like just a little grit every now and then for really expressive tonal type things. I've gone into studios for years and they ask for you to emulate "that sound" and I kind of get "my sound" and most folks i work with swear by my sound but I was never sure of what the "TS" sound was.

[Rampdog]

Arch...I got a "Bad Monkey" tube overdrive as my first pedal in my chain. It gives my Peavey Classic 30 a good tight overdrive tone. Nice and Bluesy. I like it better with my Strat than my Gibson... These guys in here really helped me with it... But your tone in those two songs is awesome! I love the clean sound like that. Tasty licks too. Nice work.

[Warthog]

Love that gospel tune! Have you recorded anything? I'm huge into indie stuff...most of my favorite CD's are from bands nobody's ever heard of.

[picker]

Arch, it's amatter of "flavors" or "colors of tone. Sure, you can get distortion with any box marked "distortion", "fuzz", or "overdrive", but the distortion of each has a different character of tone due to the circuitry, the way it is made, etc.

ANd, if I understood the interviews with Diaz that I read before he died, what he did for Stevie Ray's tone was make his amps run louder and cleaner, but with more complexity to the midrange. He was able ton push the amps harder bwefore they broke up too much, but was able to retain the character of the amps' tone. SRV got most of his distortion sound from his boxes, not his amps. His ampos obviously were not linear(having no distortion of any sort between the source and the output) but they were not delivering an overly broken up sound at the volume he wanted to play at, just riding the edge of it, but still getting a touch of feedback interplay between the amps and the pickups. Then, he could kick in the Tube Screamer and push them all the way into break up without totally coloring the sound.

[Gabriel E.]

The Tube Driver and Blues Driver were/are pedals manufactured first by Chandler and later TubeWorks (I think that maybe the Blues Driver was only manufactured by TubeWorks). They each use a single 12AX7 dual triode and were among the first overdrive pedals to incorporate actual vacuum tubes.

 

I did a google search and it appears that TubeWorks is no longer in business and these pedals are no longer being produced.

 

The Tube Driver has more gain. I know that Keith Richards used one for a while.

 

I have a RealTube which is another TubeWorks overdrive pedal and while it sounds good, I like my solidstate ProCo Rat a lot better.

 

Your tone was way too clean to approximate the sound that these devices deliver. That being said, there are probably 500 different overdrive pedals on the market that will deliver that sound.

[A McLeod III]

Wow. Amazing responses to a question that has really just driven me up the wall for an answer. I've discovered through these answers 2 things:

 

1. A tube driver is another form of distortion-that being so, there has to be several devices out here that "will" approximate that sound.

 

2. The sound of a Tube Driver itself is very subjective. A tube driver can lend an all out distorted tonal assault with thick rich singing overtones yet can also add a slight boost for that "edge-just breaking up" sound that for example, I hear in Larry Carlton's sound.

 

Cool :wink:

[Gruupi]

A Tube Driver and a Tube Screamer are two completly different sounds in my opinion.

[A McLeod III]

Originally posted by Gruupi:

A Tube Driver and a Tube Screamer are two completly different sounds in my opinion.

You know what? I was thinking that but didn't feel comfortable saying that. I had researched a few things that led me to the same conclusion. Someone else want to chime in?

[Dr. Ellwood]

Yeah Archie, I'm sorry I just re-read you original post and you where only talking about "tube driver" or a "blues driver" and NOT a TUBE SCREAMER.. which is what SRV used in his signal path. So I might have confused the issue abit.

[A McLeod III]

Originally posted by ellwood:

Yeah Archie, I'm sorry I just re-read you original post and you where only talking about "tube driver" or a "blues driver" and NOT a TUBE SCREAMER.. which is what SRV used in his signal path. So I might have confused the issue abit.

Not a problem Elwood. Fact is, that probably helped more than hurt.

[Gruupi]

To me, a Tube Sreamer is a very warm distortion with even harmonics. It tends to compress a bit. It is very usefull and isn't really a high gain distortion. Bang for the buck its the best pedal ever made for blues type leads at reasonable volumes. Even the cheap plastic little bugs Ibanez made sounded good, but the switches broke down to easily.

 

The times I have plugged into a tube driver it sounded like a typical preamp tube distortion that you get on cheap amps with a distortion channel. It sounds really bright and harsh to my ears. I never figured out how Eric Johnson got such a smooth tone out of this pedal. Of course I never played one through a cranked Marshall which I am sure is part of the equation.

[A McLeod III]

Originally posted by Gruupi:

I never figured out how Eric Johnson got such a smooth tone out of this pedal.

Gruupi, repeat after me (3 xs)

 

Eric is an alien

Eric is an alien

Eric is an alien

 

I take it you didn't see that episode of X-Files

[Gruupi]

Lol Archie, if you've seen EJ's fingers up close they look ALOT like ET's.

[A McLeod III]

Originally posted by Gruupi:

Lol Archie, if you've seen EJ's fingers up close they look ALOT like ET's.

PS. I visited your SoundClick. I love the classical stuff. I've played with several orchestras over the years. (Clarinet was my major in college.) Classical guitar still scares me. That's real musicianship there. You have a nice touch.

[Gruupi]

Thanks Archie, I am always down on myself for where I think my playing should be, so I'll take any complement I can get. I have been playing most of those songs for many years and I wish I could be more comfortable while recording to get a more flowing performance. But thanks for listening.

 

I tried to play the saxaphone a bit and the embuchure (sp?) there isn't to hard. When I picked up a friends clarinet a few times, I couldn't believe I had to almost bite the thing to get a sound. Anyone that gets to the level of playing clarinet in any orchestra must be the cream of the crop, I know there is lots of competition there.

[Gifthorse]

Lol Archie, if you've seen EJ's fingers up close they look ALOT like ET's.

Nice

 

Hey I listened to your stuff too Gruupi, you rock. Excellent playing and tone. What did you use for your electric stuff? Nice backdrop from Lee also. You can PM me cuz I don't want to ruin the thread like I always do! The classical stuff is cool too, I must admit that one particular Bach piece makes me want a hole in the head. LOL, sorry had to throw that in.

[revolead]

Originally posted by Archie McLeod III:

Originally posted by Gruupi:

I never figured out how Eric Johnson got such a smooth tone out of this pedal.

Gruupi, repeat after me (3 xs)

 

Eric is an alien

Eric is an alien

Eric is an alien

 

I take it you didn't see that episode of X-Files

Well, while I somewhat agree on that note, this diagram gives you a better idea. Essentially, Eric has a few advantages:

 

1. He runs his signal in stereo, which always sounds better.

2. He combines the sound with his Arbiter Fuzz Face sometimes.

3. He runs the "dirty" chain through '68 and '67 Marshall plexis, which I will probably never have access to.