Guitar55 Posted July 19, 2006 Posted July 19, 2006 I'm considering buying a drum kit for a few reasons, but mostly so my son and his friends have a place to play with all the necessary equipment. I'm trying to decide between an acoustic or electronic set. Here's how I see it: An acoustic set is simpler, less expensive but louder. An electronic kit is more expensive and I need to buy a means of amplifying it (keybd amp or PA), but anytime someone wants to play just drums, it's all headphones and no noise (big plus!) and I could actually get a headphone amp and have all instuments plugged into a mixer for a silent rehearsal. It will also allow me to have MY friends over for low-volume jams or band rehearsals AND I can use it for direct recording to my computer. In summary the elec. kit is more expensive with more options. Opinions?
Mudcat Posted July 19, 2006 Posted July 19, 2006 This is not based on personal experience, but I do have an opinion. Go with the electric kit, for the reasons you mention in your original post, plus the fact that if you or your son want do do some recording it will be much easier to get quality drum sounds direct electronically than with by micing an acoustic kit. From what I hear, it is also much easier to make a transition from an electric drum kit to an acoustic kit than from an acoustic to an electric. BTW - What a cool Dad you are! Mudcat's music on Soundclick "Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo-
A String Posted July 19, 2006 Posted July 19, 2006 I used to play on an electric kit during my breaks at the store I taught at. I'd plug in the headphone, pick a kit and away I'd go. The sounds are actual samples and as long as you get one with a few different voices per pad (Louder to quieter depending on how hard you hit) they sound pretty real. They are a dream to use in the studio, you don't need a ton of mics, you can set the levels for each drum in the box. If I had a choice, I would grab an electronic kit. No question. But then, I play drums, I'm not a "Drummer". Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music
Guitar55 Posted July 19, 2006 Author Posted July 19, 2006 Thanks, guys, for confirming my thoughts. I'm looking at a Yamaha DTXPRESS which was recommended by my drummer. As long as my son's frined can get used to it after playing an acoustic kit, it should be fine. The next thing I need to figure out is what to buy to amplify it at home. An inexpensive PA would be multi-purpose for mics and keys as well. I'd like to get something with 15" woofers and at least 200 watts. I looked at Carvin, but I was hoping they'd be less expnsive. Maybe I'm not being realistic about it.
fantasticsound Posted July 19, 2006 Posted July 19, 2006 For self practice your son could use something as simple as Roland MA-8 monitors. Self-powered keyboard monitors. Not the greatest monitors, but for less than $90 they provide a decent way to hear yourself at the drumset. Definitely not a band rehearsal tool, however. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd
Guitar55 Posted July 19, 2006 Author Posted July 19, 2006 I need something for a small band situation. That's why I think a PA would be good, they could use it for ebventual gigs (with acoustic drums)
Mudcat Posted July 19, 2006 Posted July 19, 2006 Originally posted by Guitar55: I need something for a small band situation. That's why I think a PA would be good, they could use it for ebventual gigs (with acoustic drums) Check out some some of the packaged PA systems at Musicians Friend . Looks like there are some pretty good deals out there. Mudcat's music on Soundclick "Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo-
Big Red 67 Posted July 19, 2006 Posted July 19, 2006 Headphone amp is cheap if you have a mixer. I really like the electric kits. With a good amp/PA you can always hear the kick drum. Plus you can play door bells and all sorts of strange stuff. You can trigger any sample you want if you do the sampler thing. I am sure that we have all wanted to have a toilet flush at of gig or another! Big Red's Ride Blog
miroslav Posted July 19, 2006 Posted July 19, 2006 I think an electronic kit is great to have... ...but only as a supplement to a real kit. I dunno'...there's just no "vibe" with an electronic kit...especially for playing R&R... ...though as a studio tool it's a good thing to have. Imagine if you got rid of everyone's guitar amps...and just DI-ed them all into the PA...? Yeah...you would have the sound...but no vibe... miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
Griffinator Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Originally posted by miroslav: Imagine if you got rid of everyone's guitar amps...and just DI-ed them all into the PA...? Yeah...you would have the sound...but no vibe... Phooey. The vocalist would finally be able to hear himself on the stage! Everyone could use in-ear monitors and the sound man could finally mix the FOH to how it sounds in the crowd, instead of how the band wants it to sound onstage in the monitors!!! I dream of such glorious situations... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends.
Guitar55 Posted July 20, 2006 Author Posted July 20, 2006 Well, I won the auction. Got a good deal. Hope it works! I'll pick it up on Thursday.
miroslav Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Originally posted by Griffinator: Originally posted by miroslav: Imagine if you got rid of everyone's guitar amps...and just DI-ed them all into the PA...? Yeah...you would have the sound...but no vibe... Phooey. The vocalist would finally be able to hear himself on the stage! Everyone could use in-ear monitors and the sound man could finally mix the FOH to how it sounds in the crowd, instead of how the band wants it to sound onstage in the monitors!!! I dream of such glorious situations...Well...you don't see many serious Rock acts playing without their amps...or without their real drums...do you? Hey...you can still use in-ear monitors and have everthing miked so that you can get a good stage and audience balance... ....that's not the issue. But playing with NO amps....and NO drums... ...is gonna' come off rather lame...IMO. miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
Dr. Ellwood Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 We have been using IEM's for close to a year now and it's the best thing we have ever done for our over all sound and the difference it makes in doing harmonies is nothing short of amazing!!The question about using no amps is just too wierd for me. Electronic drums are great if they are setup right. http://www.thestringnetwork.com
Big Red 67 Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Originally posted by miroslav: Originally posted by Griffinator: Originally posted by miroslav: Imagine if you got rid of everyone's guitar amps...and just DI-ed them all into the PA...? Yeah...you would have the sound...but no vibe... Phooey. The vocalist would finally be able to hear himself on the stage! Everyone could use in-ear monitors and the sound man could finally mix the FOH to how it sounds in the crowd, instead of how the band wants it to sound onstage in the monitors!!! I dream of such glorious situations...Well...you don't see many serious Rock acts playing without their amps...or without their real drums...do you? Hey...you can still use in-ear monitors and have everthing miked so that you can get a good stage and audience balance... ....that's not the issue. But playing with NO amps....and NO drums... ...is gonna' come off rather lame...IMO. Metallica? Big Red's Ride Blog
Windhover Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 I gotta tell ya, I've gone through the same thoughts with my 2 boys. I think an electronic set would be great, especially since my wife is noise adverse. They are each doing piano lessons first. After that, who knows (Lucky dogs!). Brian ...getting back into playing after a 15 year "break".
A String Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Originally posted by miroslav: Originally posted by Griffinator: Originally posted by miroslav: Imagine if you got rid of everyone's guitar amps...and just DI-ed them all into the PA...? Yeah...you would have the sound...but no vibe... Phooey. The vocalist would finally be able to hear himself on the stage! Everyone could use in-ear monitors and the sound man could finally mix the FOH to how it sounds in the crowd, instead of how the band wants it to sound onstage in the monitors!!! I dream of such glorious situations...Well...you don't see many serious Rock acts playing without their amps...or without their real drums...do you? Hey...you can still use in-ear monitors and have everthing miked so that you can get a good stage and audience balance... ....that's not the issue. But playing with NO amps....and NO drums... ...is gonna' come off rather lame...IMO. The band I was on the road with banned amps on stage. Everything was run direct through the board. Granted, we had real drums, but no other noise producers on the stage. It made mixing easy and we ran the FOH sound through the monitors (With the exception of the drums of course) so it was like studio playing. You could hear exactly where you were in the mix. After seven years of that, I couldn't go back to having the noisy amps on stage again. I'm spoiled now. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music
miroslav Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 There's no need for super stacks cranked to "11"... ...but I can't get use to the idea of getting all your sound via "wires" and not feeling even the slightest SPL right there on stage... ...and not being able to make any adjustments to your amps. The studio is a different situation...and it's more about isolation than it is about "noise". Alsoif your guitar sound is a made up of a nice tube amp and speaker combination... ...then you get on stage and you go DI... ...it's not the same. But there's no argument that from the soundman's point of view...having it all come through the FOH mixer is the best way to go. I think with smaller amps...all miked up...you can have the best of both worlds! miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
A String Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 I just liked the way we could hear everything at FOH volume. Before I was in that band, we had amps on stage. I could hear me and then sort of hear everyone else. You just had to trust that the guy out front was doing you justice. The band I was on the road with ran direct. No DI boxes. Just direct into the board. The band leader did his own mixing from the stage with a 24 channel, Hill Studio board. The sound from the monitors let me know exactly where I was in the mix. It took a while to get used to, but once I did, I couldn't imagine going back. I suppose it boils down to personal preference. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music
Windhover Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Originally posted by A String: I just liked the way we could hear everything at FOH volume. Before I was in that band, we had amps on stage. I could hear me and then sort of hear everyone else. You just had to trust that the guy out front was doing you justice. The band I was on the road with ran direct. No DI boxes. Just direct into the board. The band leader did his own mixing from the stage with a 24 channel, Hill Studio board. The sound from the monitors let me know exactly where I was in the mix. It took a while to get used to, but once I did, I couldn't imagine going back. I suppose it boils down to personal preference. This actually sounds good from a set-up and tear-down standpoint. I'm curious what kind of band. There's such a fine art in getting a good guitar sound that my guess is that the guitar sound was "clean" (not overdriven). I'd be thrilled if I found a great tube amp, with a great clean and overdriven sound, channel switching, and one great-sounding 10" speaker for mic-ing. Small and easy. Then have great monitors that had the house mix at a lower volume, and maybe in ear monitors for just vocals. Sorta on the same topic, I'd love to see a band using those new Bose tower-looking speakers. They're a little spendy, but I'm curious what they sound like in person. Brian ...getting back into playing after a 15 year "break".
Dr. Ellwood Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Well we passed on the Bose PAS towers with the bass module. At 250 watts to the towers and 250 watts to the bass modules it just doesn't have near enough balls for our outfit, and I mean NOT even close. I can't imagine that system covering a 300 to 500 person venue like their informantion says. That system could never cover even a medium sized inside venue and outside..well pretty thin on anyting dynamic. No thanks on that system, not for serious rock players. http://www.thestringnetwork.com
Mudcat Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Originally posted by ellwood: Well we passed on the Bose PAS towers with the bass module. At 250 watts to the towers and 250 watts to the bass modules it just doesn't have near enough balls for our outfit, and I mean NOT even close. I can't imagine that system covering a 300 to 500 person venue like their informantion says. That system could never cover even a medium sized inside venue and outside..well pretty thin on anyting dynamic. No thanks on that system, not for serious rock players. I hope Lee Flier doesn't read this post! Mudcat's music on Soundclick "Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo-
miroslav Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Originally posted by A String: I suppose it boils down to personal preference.Without question. Heck...I will admit that as far as live gigs are concerned...I'm still very old-school in my thinking, as it's been many years now since I played out live. I'm sure if I ever get back out in a live band again...I will re-think the whole setup. Most certainly, for monitoring, it wouldl be some IEM system...maybe just one ear...? And putting everything through the PA is also a serious option...but I think I would still like miked amps on stage, at lower volumes...and a real drum kit, but just have the drummer play without pounding, and let the mics do the work. Though having a lot of open mics in a live situation comes with it's own headaches... Well...it's not an issue for me now, as I'm not leaving my studio environment any time soon! miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
Guitar Geezer Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Seems to work fine for Lee and What The...? Lynn G
Dr. Ellwood Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Originally posted by Mudcat: Originally posted by ellwood: Well we passed on the Bose PAS towers with the bass module. At 250 watts to the towers and 250 watts to the bass modules it just doesn't have near enough balls for our outfit, and I mean NOT even close. I can't imagine that system covering a 300 to 500 person venue like their informantion says. That system could never cover even a medium sized inside venue and outside..well pretty thin on anyting dynamic. No thanks on that system, not for serious rock players. I hope Lee Flier doesn't read this post! And why is that? who cares what she reads or what PA she is using? I said for my band not hers, shes doing a pretty low volume 3 piece gig with no keyboards, smallish venues etc... We play a completely different set of parameters. http://www.thestringnetwork.com
Dr. Ellwood Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Originally posted by Guitar Geezer: Seems to work fine for Lee and What The...? Yeah I know http://www.thestringnetwork.com
Mudcat Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Originally posted by ellwood: Originally posted by Mudcat: Originally posted by ellwood: Well we passed on the Bose PAS towers with the bass module. At 250 watts to the towers and 250 watts to the bass modules it just doesn't have near enough balls for our outfit, and I mean NOT even close. I can't imagine that system covering a 300 to 500 person venue like their informantion says. That system could never cover even a medium sized inside venue and outside..well pretty thin on anyting dynamic. No thanks on that system, not for serious rock players. I hope Lee Flier doesn't read this post! And why is that? who cares what she reads or what PA she is using? I said for my band not hers, shes doing a pretty low volume 3 piece gig with no keyboards, smallish venues etc... We play a completely different set of parameters. Please note the at the end of my post. It was a joke (although I do think Lee does consider her band to be "serious rock players.") No offense intended. Just making a funny. Mudcat's music on Soundclick "Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo-
Dr. Ellwood Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Oh I know Mudcat! If I knew I was going to always play a 75 to 100 person gig I might consider that system (maybe not but) thats where they belong, for anything larger they just don't carry the freight, not enough fire in the hole! I mean our monitor system is larger than that system, that is an efficient system for it's size but it hits it's limits fast. http://www.thestringnetwork.com
Griffinator Posted July 21, 2006 Posted July 21, 2006 Besides - it's a Blo$e system. Give the cones 4 years of carting around and the surrounds will be rotted clean out. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends.
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