Salinger Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 I've got a nice acoustic guitar with no electronics and have been thinking about getting either a soundhole or piezo pickup (probably a Fishman.) What are the pros and cons of each? I've heard soundhole pickups are better at reproducing the guitar's "true" sound. If so, why do so many high-end electric-acoustic guitars come with a piezo pickup? About that wire that runs off a soundhole pickup, is it possible to simply run it through the soundhole, into the body of the guitar, and out the strap button?
fantasticsound Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Soundhole pickups do not reproduce the guitar's natural tone as well. But they're convenient, require no modification to your guitar and provide a relatively warm, smooth tone that is highly immune to feedback. Piezo p'ups sound more like a guitar's true tone but have the strong tendency to accentuate the fundamental over the harmonics. This is sometimes referred to as sounding like a rubber band. The best choice in this realm is the L.R. Baggs Ribbon p'up, which uses a film of crushed piezo-electric material. This greatly reduces the over-emphasized fundamental. I love mine. They are reasonably immune to feedback, but I would suggest a preamp with eq to shape your timbre and notch feedback. The best reproduction of your guitar is a mic, but beware. Many miniature mic systems for guitar are too sensitive for small stages. They feedback like crazy. Under the right conditions they can sound magnificent, though. Most acoustic pros (I don't mean guys who strum an acoustic in the context of an otherwise loud band. I mean musicians who care about their timbre.) Use a combination of p'ups and mics depending on their style, the desired timbre and the expected onstage environment. Michael Hedges, for example used several systems to properly recreate the harmonics and fundamental tones of his guitars, harp guitars, and percussive techniques he used in addition to picking/strumming notes. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd
Gifthorse Posted July 19, 2006 Posted July 19, 2006 I am curious about that LR baggs now.. I hear their preamp for $150 is killer!! I have a Fishman in mine. It is piezo. I forget the model. I think piezo sounds better for a pickup. I don't totally like it though. I wish I could hear yours neil. http://flagshipmile.dmusic.com/ http://www.myspace.com/gifthorse
henrysb3 Posted July 19, 2006 Posted July 19, 2006 Thanks, Neil, for helping me understand my Yamaha classic that has a peizo and a condenser mic that sits below the soundhole. The mic is so sensitive that I rarely use it and stick with the peizo. He not busy being born Is busy dyin'. ...Bob Dylan
fantasticsound Posted July 19, 2006 Posted July 19, 2006 Flag, L.R. Baggs is making some pretty neat stuff. The preamp you're talking about.. is it the "stealth" preamp that mounts discreetly in the soundhole with miniature pots for adjustment of volume and tone? It's really sweet and unobtrusive. Mine is the full on, cut out a section of the side preamp with bass, treble, a semi-parametric mid boost/cut and volume. I don't mind it being so big and visible. And there are many people hip to the I-beam. Check out the website for more info. I don't remember its' operational workings, but it does a good job of reproduction with minimum opportunity for feedback. Henry, that's very common for guys with mic/piezo systems and no personal soundman. Even with a skilled soundman and a decent system the mic can be problematic, but it's virtually unusable on many stages without a regular, skilled soundman mixing. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd
Salinger Posted July 20, 2006 Author Posted July 20, 2006 Based on what you've said, it sounds like piezo pickups are the way to go. Don't piezo pickups replace the saddle? If so, what would you do if you need to shave the saddle down a little? Wouldn't you be stuck and just hope for the best with a truss rod adjustment?
fantasticsound Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 I would suggest you get a listen to some piezos as they vary greatly. Also, there are many people who prefer the sound of magnetic, sound-hole mounted p'ups. I hope my comments didn't suggest piezos are inherently better than magnetics. It depends on the purpose and personal preference. Magnetics tend to be (on their own) preferred by rock players who aren't looking for a natural, acoustic timbre. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd
henrysb3 Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Neil, do you think one of those covers for the soundhole would help? The mic sounds good and has a phase reversal switch, I guess to compensate for having an outboard mic on the guitar as well. It changes the sound, but has no effect on feedback sensitivity. He not busy being born Is busy dyin'. ...Bob Dylan
fantasticsound Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 The phase switch sometimes can make a difference in feedback resistance, but it usually works best if you're seated and barely moving. A feedback buster will definitely help, but I don't know how it will affect the timbre of the mic. I use a Lute Hole http://elderly.com/images/accessories/ACC/LH-14-MED.jpg For feedback reduction because it doesn't completely choke off the timbre generated by intake/output of air through the soundhole. I don't have to take it out to play my instrument in situations that don't require a Feedback Buster. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd
picker Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 I have a piezo in my Guild. It doesn't really sound like an acoustic, but it's very usable, and it's a heck of a lot less trouble than most stuff out there. If you want to get a better system, look into the LR Baggs i-beam Active . I know a guy who has one and it's the most natural sounding acoustic pickup I ever heard. Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.
henrysb3 Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Neil, I will for sure check into the Lute Hole. The second one looks Celtic, which would be a hit at the bar where I frequently jam. The Celtic Fox He not busy being born Is busy dyin'. ...Bob Dylan
dave251 Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Hey guys, been a while.... Getting an "accurate" acoustic sound is not necessarily the way to go. You can throw tons of money at your system, and still not have what you THINK you need... We've all been there...we want the EXACT sound of THAT acoustic we fell in love with... Ain't gonna happen... That being said, a GREAT acoustic sound can be had.... You don't have to be in an "either" "or" situation, ie, mag or piezo...however, in terms of most accurate to least accurate, and regarding pickups/mics only... The MOST accurate is distance miking, probably using a pair of mics. Next most accurate is the dynamic cardiod at the soundhole.... Then, a sound board transducer[sBT](usually piezo).... For my ears, a magnetic soundhole pickup and an undersaddle piezo(UST) are both INNACCURATE, just in a different way. AN internal mic by itself sounds pretty horrible, unless massive, sophisticated eq is employed. You can pretty much reverse the order for feedback resistance.... The best sounds from guitar pickups(for my ears anyway) is usually a "dual source" system. The most common is UST/interior condenser mic. The mag/SBT systems are really starting to come into their own, though. That's essentially what Hedges used...a Sunrise mag, and 1/2 of a "FRAP" system in that old D28. He got a great sound..... Here's a TON of pickup comparisons.. http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptest.htm Dave Wendler Instruments
dave251 Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Hey Henry....which bar is that? I'd come over and jam if it's an open circle.... Dave Wendler Instruments
A String Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Sorry to hijack the thread but, Hey Dave! Good to see you around again! I missed seeing that sweet axe in your avatars. I hope, someday, to be able to afford one of them bad boys! You may now resume you're regularly scheduled thread. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music
dave251 Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 I'm sorry...I've been a bad boy....hiding out, building guitars.... Dave Wendler Instruments
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