Sustain or Disdain

[Pappy P]

When recording I find the sustain seems longer if I add a little reverd a just a little echo, about 230 milliseconds(almost imperceptable) really seems to give me a shit-load of sustain, clean sustain.

 

Maybe I'm just imagining it.

 

However, I'm still struggling to recreate that exact sound on any of my amps. My digitech pedal sounds very weak going through the Fender Hot Rod.

 

My compressor just adds alot of static.

 

Anybody have any secrets or hints.

[fantasticsound]

Well, reverb does increase sustain in that it's the reflections of sound off the walls of your performance space. Either when created by electronic means or natural room reverb. If you're playing particularly loud it can also help drive your guitar/amp setup into controlled sustain or feedback.

 

Delay appears to add sustain for the same reason, but the quality is different because of the discrete nature of the repeats. If you hold a note, though, you don't hear the repeat except at its' beginning and end. That appears to add sustain.

 

Experiment with using the Digitech through the effects loop input instead of the main input. Also, try fiddling with different combinations of input/output levels on the pedal in conjunction with different levels on the amp gain and/or volume.

 

Just know that most multi-effects severely limit the dynamic qualities that make great amps sound and play great. If that's the case, no amount of great equipment after the pedal will fix the problem.

[The Geoff]

Which Digitech pedal are you using?

 

G.

[Gruupi]

Iv'e always used a little reverb and/ or echo to increase the apparent sustain of my playing. I tend to play relatively clean so I need all the help I can get.

[musicalhair]

What kind of compressor are you using?

 

Guitar doesn't actually sustain very well. Finger embrochure, your set up, the power of the magnets and their distance from the string (pulls the strings still instead of letting it vibrate free) are all factors, but the biggest factor seems to me to be everything after the "out" jack on the guitar. It is almost as tough to get "sustain" out of a classical guitar as it is out of a really clean sound. There isn't a lot of sustain in Wes or Jimmy Rainey solos that I can recall.

 

A good overdrive, a cranked amp with good distortion goes a long way towards good sustain, a good compressor set up right helps milk it.

 

I dont' "do" long sustaining notes but really I've been meaning to work on that. I go for a big pick attack and accept the quick decay and phrase that way, but I'm improvising most of the time and play a lot of nylon string and acoustic and that definately influences what I go for as a sound. All that is I guess an apology of sorts in that I don't have a specific recommendation for getting more sustain, I'm just sharing what I know about it.

[AeroG33k]

You're probably doing this instinctively, but in case you're not, adding a slight vibrato or subtle bends to the note makes the sustain sound a lot better than simply letting it ring out.

[Pappy P]

I'm using a DOD milk box compressor, it was on the cheap side. I have the Digitech RP300A.

 

Thanks for all the input.

[musicalhair]

I had a compressor pedal made by Fender, a pink and black thing. Man it sucked. All hiss and no benefit to the sound at all. I was young and not to bright when I got it, I don't know what I thought I heard in the store. I can't even find it, I might have given it away-- but if I did it was with a clear warning, I hope.

 

Since then I got a Menatone compressor which is very cool and ... a ... ....

 

Barber Tone Press. Man that is sweet compressor. I really love that pedal, and highly recommend it.

[Big Red 67]

I use the tube delay on my Line6 delay. I get "feedback" even when I am not in the same room with the amp.

 

By the way reverd?

[Ricardo.]

Reverd = To refinish a piece of furniture. In green.

[Big Red 67]

Why green?

[musicalhair]

I'm thunking he seeing it like re-verd(e), eh?

[Teahead]

A good compressor will add much more than static and can really help to fill out your clean tones. A little delay gives the impression of more sustain, which is useful, but a decent comp is the answer to your prayers. When combined with that same delay the results can be wonderful.

 

Here\'s a very short clip from the Analogman site that demonstrates how the Ross style comp sounds and what it adds to a base tone. This kind of comp is very warm and capable of squish.

 

Build Your Own Clone 'Ross' Compressors are great and only around $100 and the HBE Compressor Retro is another good example at $140. Above that, the Diamond Compressor is around $190 and has a great reputation, it's an optical comp and is more transparent than the Ross style but still capable of plenty of sustain. The Tone Press was mentioned, another great value comp ($140) with a blend knob to mix dry signal with compressed.

[The Geoff]

Originally posted by Pappy P:

I'm using a DOD milk box compressor, it was on the cheap side. I have the Digitech RP300A.

 

Thanks for all the input.

OK - I don't know about the RP300A, but with the GNX-1 you have to go into utilities & specify what kind of rig you are outputting to - Guitar input of a 1x12, FX Return of a 1x12, same for 2x12 and 4x12. There's also a Direct output for earphones & mixing desk. It obviously makes some sort of difference - does your RP300A need that?

 

Geoff

[Gruupi]

I guess I use the reverbs and delays for that added sustain because I don't like playing through a compressor. Compressors do the opposite of what I am trying to achieve, which is to have better playing dynamics. Everyones ear and expectations are different, lots of folks love compressors and hate delays. I know of times when people have played my rig, one of the first things they do is turn off the delay, its just a matter to what your ear tells you.

[Scott Fraser]

<>

 

I'm going to disagree with that assessment. I use various compressors, delays & reverb & it's been my impression that the single biggest factor in obtaining sustain is the axe itself, not the effects.

 

<< It is almost as tough to get "sustain" out of a classical guitar as it is out of a really clean sound. There isn't a lot of sustain in Wes or Jimmy Rainey solos that I can recall.>>

 

And that is, in my current theory on this, because they were playing hollow body guitars. I've been going through a series of hollow bodied jazz guitars lately, looking for a perfect combination of tone as well as sustain, & what I've concluded is that sustain is really going to come from a solid body. I just rehearsed yesterday with my duo partner, using my new PRS, & everything I was trying to get with a Yamaha ArtStar, a Gretsch Streamliner or an Epiphone Emperor Regent, was happening on the PRS, because the sustain was so much more happening. The notes just die off very quickly on the hollow bodies, & this serves quite well for a Kenny Burrell or Wes Montgomery type of sound. For more sustain, I'm thinking go with a solid body axe, then add a compressor which doesn't completely mangle the attack & play with it enough to find where the dynamics are still lively, but the sustain hangs on longer. It's a fine line between more sustain & loss of dynamics.

 

Scott Fraser

[D_dup3]

Gruupi's right about compressors hacking your dynamics, although some judicious experimentation may temper that.

[The overuse of compressors when mixing these days is a prime reason that pop music CDs don't have half the dynamic range & real clarity they were hyped with...all a perfect example of how "a little learning is a dangerous thing".]

 

They can give you near endless sustain though, as demonstrated by the late Lowell George on early Little Feat records.

 

Of course, as mentioned, factors like the instrument's construction & playing techniques are significant. In earlier days people like Peter Green & Roy Buchanan got great sustain, too, just from carefully tweaking & manipulating their gear.

 

 

[bTW, I've never heard the horn term embouchure applied to finger technique... ]