Regarding proselytization...

[picker]

Not to circumvent the mods wishes here, but I feel the need to say something regarding the recent ruckus over Hillary's post, and to all else who want to use this site to forward their political, spiritual or emotional agenda. That is;

 

BACK OFF!

 

This is a site where a number of folks of varying orientations on a myriad of topics come to talk about guitars and music. We try to keep it fiendly here, by choice, because most of us have seen what happens when we engage in discussions about topics we differ on.

 

We used to have a political forum that has since been moved to Harmony Central(good riddance!), and it wound up being nothing more than a place where folks ragged on each other over their differences. The problem with such a site is not that ideas do not need to be discussed, it is that

such sites seem to always degenerate into childish displays of ire and outrage. Most of us here would like to see this forum avoid turning into what that other one did.

 

We agree to the rules of this site by posting here, and the rules say if you wanna get into that sort of discussion, find somewhere else to do it. For the most part, people follow the rules here, although occasionally someone will forget (or possibly ignore) the rules. The mods have been willing to grant more leeway than I would, personally, but maybe that's why they are mods and I ain't. But even with my own ideological baggage, I am glad that they keep the site focused for the most part. I hope they continue to do so.

 

That being said, it hasn't seemed to bother a number of folks here if they break the "no politics" rule when they feel the need. But when they run across someone bringing up things they don't agre with, they become insulting. Frankly, there is no good reason for anyone to make the sort of demeaning remarks that were made to Hillary about her post, not to anyone on any topic. This is not only NOT a political, religious, socialogical, or scatological site, it also isn't the rehearsal hall for Triumph the Insult Dog wannabes. It is one thing to disagree and say so. It is quite another to ridicule and debase someone. In the spirit of keping this place friendly, how about we all just rachet it down a bit on the sarcasm and insults when we encounter somthing we don't agree with?

[fantasticsound]

Agreed.

 

(Don't have a heart attack over that, Picker. )

[The Big G]

all in favour say aye!!!!

"AYE"

you gotta smile

[picker]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Agreed.

 

(Don't have a heart attack over that, Picker. )

ARRRGH!!!(grasps chest, gasps for air, falls to the floor, mumbles weakly before losing consciousness)Too late!!

[musicalhair]

All I saw in that thread was some good natured ribbing and a whole lot of hyjacking with is liable to happen in almost any thread here. The ribbing was no different that other ad for guitarists that get posted here. I don't think she got any ill will from anyone here but maybe I just missed it.

 

Her deleted thread I didn't read so I can't comment on it.

[picker]

Nah. "Ribbing" is done bewtween friends, not strangers. She never posted her before, and as such was entitled to a certain amount of time to get used to the people around here before "ribbing" took place. What was said to her was just rude and uncalled for, no way around it. Let's try to keep it friendly, especially with folks who just got here.

[musicalhair]

We're all freinds here, aren't we? What they do to "newbies" in other places is flat out wrong IMO, but I think we don't do that here except when the spam alarms go off, and posts looking for musicians for bands do get under peoples skin (which I don't understand either-- I mean if a ad were posted here like this: hot chick singing group (a la Destiny's Child) looking for middle aged slighty chubby guitarist with mediocre skills with bad skin and worse fasion sense in North west Jersey, man I'd be happy).

 

What exactly was more rude than other stuff here?

[The Geoff]

Pickers's Thread - Agreed!!

 

 

Geoff

[picker]

Originally posted by musicalhair:

What exactly was more rude than other stuff here?

I have already spoken privately with the poster of the main ridiculing comment, who plainly said it wasn't intended as "good-natured ribbing", but rather to take Hillary down a peg because, in his opinion, she deserved it. If he had known her more than the 30 seconds he took to read her post, it might have been excusable as "just among friends' but he didn't. he deliberately and intentionally attacked someone he didn't really know. If that isn't worse than other stuff here, it ought to be. And that is my point; we need respect each other, even if we disagree.

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by Picker:

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Agreed.

 

(Don't have a heart attack over that, Picker. )

ARRRGH!!!(grasps chest, gasps for air, falls to the floor, mumbles weakly before losing consciousness)Too late!!

 

(No, I'm not laughing at the thought of you keeling over in agony.. or am I? )

[picker]

Watch out, if I become a haint, I'll haint ya!

 

HEY! If there's a "taint punch", is there a "haint punch" too?

[musicalhair]

I just had the misfortune of reading both of Hilary's threads in their entirty. There isn't anything in either of them that couldn't be equally found in the many long pages of threads that are about absolutely nothing-- some that are about nothing by design. It is the same shucking-and-jiving nonsense in many of our threads, especially the longer ones. Maybe that is why nothing except one of her posts were editied.

 

Regardless of whether or not you pm'ed the "offending" party, till you're moderator what you find over the line won't really matter any more than anyone else's opinion.

 

You could actually refer to the over-the-line post that you're talking about so this discussion could actually be of use to us, instead of putting us on notice again that anyone proclaiming their Chritianity is off limits, regardless of what that "Christianity" means either in theory or practice. When I think of Radical Christians"--as Hillary proclaims herself to be-- I think of Christian Anarchists, Cathars and all other sorts of whom the mere mention has me all a scared that I'll have this post edited down to a smiley.

 

I don't think the forum needed your definition of radical Christian and I think at the very least you should have written your definition in a less closed manner to allow for it to be more clear that it is your interpretation of what Hillary meant. Instead you spoke like you and her were part of some Christian Borg where you were reading her mind. I think if there was anything in that thread that cause you to start this thread it was the reactions you got to your definition. I think people got stired up by your very political/religious post. You saw a chance to throw out your definition of Radical Christian as an opportunity to get political without raising the ire of the moderators, then throw a hissy fit when people react-- and their reaction was no different that your reaction when you felt the need to define Radical Christian for all of us.

 

But, we're all freinds here: aren't we?

 

Sincerely,

 

Musicalhair

Radical Christian

[Big Red 67]

Agree.

 

I think that it was done in fun.

 

I also think that the "rules" thread is right there! Please, please, don't take the responceablity away from them and put it on us though. Tate

[Guitar55]

Just to be clear, Hillary's post was not trying to forward her religious agenda. She just qualified the type of person she wanted in her band. Same as if she said "non-smoking guitarist wanted".

[Justus A. Picker]

Originally posted by Guitar55:

Just to be clear, Hillary's post was not trying to forward her religious agenda. She just qualified the type of person she wanted in her band. Same as if she said "non-smoking guitarist wanted".

Imagine if she'd written "no heathens".....

[fantasticsound]

Like these?

 

http://www.bartcop.com/heather_locklear_1.jpg

http://www.hollywoodauditions.com/CelebertyPhotos/heather_graham.jpg

 

http://www.heathermillsmccartney.com/assets/images/media/unesco.jpg

 

 

Okay, I certainly wouldn't want that last gold digger in my band, but the first two?!? I'd let either of them use me.. er, be in my band! How could anyone suggest "no Heathers", Justus A. Picker??

[picker]

Originally posted by musicalhair:

Regardless of whether or not you pm'ed the "offending" party, till you're moderator what you find over the line won't really matter any more than anyone else's opinion.

Actually, he pm-ed me, not the other way around. And, you neglect to say that while my opinion means no more than anyone else's, it means no less, either, and I am as entitled to voice it as, weell, even you, although after this last post, I have begun to wonder if you view my privileges as equal to your own.

 

Originally posted by musicalhair:

You could actually refer to the over-the-line post that you're talking about so this discussion could actually be of use to us, instead of putting us on notice again that anyone proclaiming their Chritianity is off limits, regardless of what that "Christianity" means either in theory or practice.

Pardon me, but I think it was the moderators who made the definitive determination that there would be no politics or religion on this site, a determination that you seem to be ignoring by writing all this.

 

Originally posted by musicalhair:

When I think of Radical Christians"--as Hillary proclaims herself to be-- I think of Christian Anarchists, Cathars and all other sorts of whom the mere mention has me all a scared that I'll have this post edited down to a smiley.

You are obviously welcome to your opinion, even though it was previously stated, both this and the last time, in complete disregrad of the Moderators rule that there be no discussion of religion on this site.

 

Originally posted by musicalhair:

I don't think the forum needed your definition of radical Christian and I think at the very least you should have written your definition in a less closed manner to allow for it to be more clear that it is your interpretation of what Hillary meant.

And again, you are welcome to your opinion, regardless of the fact that it means no more than anyone else's, including mine.

 

Originally posted by musicalhair:

Instead you spoke like you and her were part of some Christian Borg where you were reading her mind. I think if there was anything in that thread that cause you to start this thread it was the reactions you got to your definition. I think people got stired up by your very political/religious post.

And I think you have drops in your eyes; you seem to be seeing things much larger than they are, and some that aren't even there. I made no political statement of any sort. Maybe you should go back and read it all again...

 

Originally posted by musicalhair:

You saw a chance to throw out your definition of Radical Christian as an opportunity to get political without raising the ire of the moderators, then throw a hissy fit when people react-- and their reaction was no different that your reaction when you felt the need to define Radical Christian for all of us.

Actually, what I saw was a newbie being ridiculed and stepped up to defend her. "Borg"? ROTFLOL!

 

Originally posted by musicalhair:

But, we're all freinds here: aren't we?

I used to think so...

 

Originally posted by musicalhair:

Sincerely,

Yeah, me too.

 

Originally posted by musicalhair:

Musicalhair

Radical Christian

How egalitarian of you to claim a title you hate so much. Is that to make me feel better?

[Hairfarmer]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

[QB] Like these?

 

http://www.bartcop.com/heather_locklear_1.jpg

 

 

ShaaaWING!

[fantasticsound]

Oh! I'm sorry! He said, Heathens. My bad.

 

[A String]

Hillary's first post was a simple request for a guitar player. The mention of religion was simply meant (I'm assuming of course) as a way of notifying any prospective applicants of the bands "leanings".

 

Hillary's second post was a self-serving, religious promotion. I had to remove it.

 

I'm sorry that we seem to have come to so many impasses, when it comes to accepting the rules here. There are a equal number of folks supporting my efforts as there are who damn them. Really, we are just trying to do our best to keep, "the majority" of people, happy.

 

We used to have a political forum here and it was a nasty place. Some people can handle that kind of stuff and some can't. The powers that be, decided that they no longer wanted religion and politics on these forums. A lot of the regulars of the political forums, went with it, when it left.

 

Now, the dust has cleared, there are new mods here and we are all working to stitch together the society and hang on to that great "local pub" feel that we have. I hope everyone can relax a little, sit back and just enjoy the place. You are all a great bunch of guys and I think of all of you as friends (Even the ones that write me nasty PMs!).

 

Here's to great friends, discussing great guitars, in a great forum! Cheers guys!

[Xplorer]

I think you made the right call there A-String.

 

...now back to my nasty PM entitled "My Complaint about A String".

 

Where was I, oh yea...

 

"I won't sugarcoat this letter. This is a very bitter letter. Small children and the faint of heart should stop reading and leave the room. Note that some of the facts I plan to use in this letter were provided to me by a highly educated person who managed to escape A String's delusional indoctrination and is consequently believable. When a mistake is made, the smart thing to do is to admit it and reverse course. That takes real courage. The way that A String stubbornly refuses to own up to his mistakes serves only to convince me that he takes things out of context, twists them around, and then neglects to provide decent referencing so the reader can check up on him. A String also ignores all of the evidence that doesn't support (or in many cases directly contradicts) his position. And that's what writing this sort of letter is all about. It's a way to say "no" to A String's illiterate doctrines."

 

I'm KIDDING of course! But for an excellent complaint letter generator, check out http://www.pakin.org/complaint/

[Eric Iverson]

I agree that some of the comments to Hillary were a bit rude, especially since all she did was make known her need for a lead guitarist. Was she supposed to APOLOGIZE that her band is a Christian band? She didn't turn the post into a sermon!

[mdrs]

I had no problems with how you handled things A String.

 

That's not why I don't like you. I really don't like you because I prefer G Strings.

 

OF COURSE, I'M KIDDING!!!!!!

 

I suspect Hillary has had some troubles, and may still be troubled. I am sympathetic to her. Unfortunately, this is not really the place to deal with that sort of stuff. I hope she finds personal happiness. She'll likely have more success in that pursuit if she focuses her effort elsewhere.

 

Don, your brother guitaraholic, and G.A.S. counselor

[A String]

Ahhhh, I can feel the love.

[picker]

I didn't get a chance to read Hillary's second post, so I don't know what she said, and that's fine with me. If the mods felt it was inappropriate, I am fine with it being deleted.

[A String]

Originally posted by Picker:

I didn't get a chance to read Hillary's second post, so I don't know what she said, and that's fine with me. If the mods felt it was inappropriate, I am fine with it being deleted.

Her second post made me question the validity of her first.

[Big Red 67]

Truethat!

[mdrs]

yea....the second one was pretty blatant....I felt her pain, but it's not what were here for.

 

I'd prefer tube distortion............

[musicalhair]

Hey Picker, I'm glad you got a kick out of the borg reference, I liked it too. But how would you describe your presumption over how she defines radical Christian?

 

As for stating your opinion and having a right to it, I never questioned your right. You weren't expressing an opinion at the start of this thread, you were issued a command or something when you tell everyone to "BACK OFF".

 

As for you disdain for the Political Forum, you are as filthy from that place as I am : you can pretend otherwise all you want, but noone's gotta buy it.

 

And I still don't see anything all that nasty in either of her threads, if you want nasty revisit the "Clash vs Journey" thread or the couple of "guitarist, vs writer vs hobbiest vs whatever else" thread from around the same time. Those were far more nasty with mud and rock being slung all over the place by all sorts of mild mannered members of our community. Hillary's thread was tame and really just typical of many threads here. It isn't Hillary's knickers that got in a twist as far as I can tell, it appears to be yours. So when you say to "Back off" you're not talking about her or for her but about yourself in some way.

 

And finally, what do you know about what I might or might not hate? I kinda think that is over the line; but to make a big deal out of it I guess I'd have to "flag" your post and I'm not about that. I'm not about hate, see because "it's all good is like a way of life"! (Thanks Guitar Geezer, but I seriously doubt you'd be seen in this thread )

 

So in conclusion, in a thread where you decry the way some might have gone over a line in another thread you: 1) tell everyone to back off like you're Moe and we Curley or Shemp or Curley Joe-- and I don't care who's who but if I can't be Moe then I'm Larry, so in keeping with the three stooges theme next time say "Spread out" like Moe would-- and 2) you get all about what you get all bent outta shape over what you think I "hate".

 

You're calling everyone out for there behavoir, putting us all on notice, begging for posts like mine here in this thread: we all reap what we sew, don't we? You got a lotta nerve thinking you know something about what I might hate, you better check out the other three fingers pointing back at you.

[picker]

Okay, you're so much better a person than I, how can I do anything but fall on my knees and beg your forgiveness, O all-seeing Brother Broadsword who knows so much more than any and everyone else?

 

 

In a pig's ear...