Why metronomes anyway..?

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Hey, why is everyone so gaga about playing with a metronome? Isn't it better to have a drum machine?

[Hardtail]

A metronome does the job but I'd like to get a drum machine eventually. I just don't know if I want a s/w version or a h/w one.

[Sleaze_Disease]

I could be wrong, but I always looked at it as people use metronomes to practice playing scales and stuff and trying to play like Yngwie, but a drum machine is useful when you're playing riffs and learning to play in time.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Sleaze_Disease:

I could be wrong, but I always looked at it as people use metronomes to practice playing scales and stuff and trying to play like Yngwie, but a drum machine is useful when you're playing riffs and learning to play in time.

Yeah, but you could always program a simple click track into the drum machine.

 

I'm asking because I've been toying with the idea of getting a metronome like all the shredder guys reckon one should and I'm wondering what so special about the metronome (presumably shredders have heard of drum machines ).

 

I've never really bothered with a metronome, so there could be some aspect to them that I'd never thought of. I suppose you save on an amp jack but beyond that?

[Sleaze_Disease]

Ahh I never thought about a click track...

I stand corrected.

[Hardtail]

A metronome is simply a device help you maintain good timing. You can do plenty of things with it.. not just whacking off with scales.

 

For example, when I'm learning a tune, I'll play it slowly using a metronome to make sure I can play it cleanly. Eventually, I'll increase the speed until I can play it at full speed.

 

Same goes with when I'm doing improv practicing. If I discover something that I can't quite play with the speed I want, I'll use a metronome to help me get it up to speed.

 

Metronomes help with rhythm practices too. See Fumblyfinger's post on "Rhythm Scythm". He cites using a metronome in doing the exercises he laid out.

 

The metronome I use is this one:

http://www.metronomeonline.com/

 

It's free... can't get better than that.

 

What I want a drum machine for is for all of the above plus laying down some recordings.

[Justus A. Picker]

I'd go with the "a drum machine is better" option. It just makes things more interesting.

[fantasticsound]

Well, let's not forget the legions of acoustic players who don't plug in anything when practicing.

 

Even a lot of electric guitar players don't want to plug in other electronic instruments, either into their amp or have to practice by their stereo or computer setup.

 

But I'm with Jeff Berlin. Metronomes, while nice to have when a drum machine isn't possible, tend to cause players tension and anxiety rather than teach time. It's after you've learned to keep time and play a piece well that a metronome can be used to polish your timing. Jeff demonstrated how timing can be taught without a metronome simply by working on a piece with an instructor who can show you how the timing should be. Even on your own you can listen to recordings and learn the timing of a section.

 

I was fortunate to work at MARS and buy the Boss DB12 at cost. I think it was $18 at a time when they sold for over $50. I don't know why it had such a mark. Most times you never see something like that. In addition to basic beats, it does shuffles, works as a stopwatch and fits in your pocket. It can also do odd times with accents on particular beats. You stick a pencil or pen in the hole to make it stand up on a table or other flat surface.

 

http://media.zzounds.com/media/brand,zzounds/fit,325by400/quality,85/DB-12-12d83948b57b00050029a6091276f830.jpg

 

Oh, yeah... I like playing to the drum machine, too. Depends on what I'm doing. Sometimes the drum beat, if it's not exactly what the song requires, can be very distracting as opposed to the simple click of the metronome.

[Big Red 67]

Apples and oranges. Sort of. One keeps the beat, one can keep the beat, and also keep it intresting. Pandora anyone?

[SlyFoxx]

I guess it comes down to how you relate to each. A drum machine like the kind built into many floor fx processors (I've got that tiny Zoom unit...which is pretty kewl by the way) might be a bit too busy and distracting from the task at had, if said task to is master the timing. It might mask mistakes and make you sound better because the accompanyment is fuller. A simple click may be less distracting and therfore allow you to concentrate more on the task at hand.

[Big Red 67]

I have a TUBE metronome!!!!!!!

[Big Red 67]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/thebigred67/ee_2.jpg

 

Looks like this! Ummmm bakelite.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Well, let's not forget the legions of acoustic players who don't plug in anything when practicing.

 

Even a lot of electric guitar players don't want to plug in other electronic instruments, either into their amp or have to practice by their stereo or computer setup.

 

But I'm with Jeff Berlin. Metronomes, while nice to have when a drum machine isn't possible, tend to cause players tension and anxiety rather than teach time. It's after you've learned to keep time and play a piece well that a metronome can be used to polish your timing. Jeff demonstrated how timing can be taught without a metronome simply by working on a piece with an instructor who can show you how the timing should be. Even on your own you can listen to recordings and learn the timing of a section.

 

I was fortunate to work at MARS and buy the Boss DB12 at cost. I think it was $18 at a time when they sold for over $50. I don't know why it had such a mark. Most times you never see something like that. In addition to basic beats, it does shuffles, works as a stopwatch and fits in your pocket. It can also do odd times with accents on particular beats. You stick a pencil or pen in the hole to make it stand up on a table or other flat surface.

 

http://media.zzounds.com/media/brand,zzounds/fit,325by400/quality,85/DB-12-12d83948b57b00050029a6091276f830.jpg

 

Oh, yeah... I like playing to the drum machine, too. Depends on what I'm doing. Sometimes the drum beat, if it's not exactly what the song requires, can be very distracting as opposed to the simple click of the metronome.

I think the reason people have problems with using a metronome is simply that they don't know how to use it. They try to "catch up" to the metronome or "keep up" with the metronome. What they should really be doing is slowing the metronome down to a ridiculously slow setting and playing along with it. Then, when they can play the piece at a very slow speed perfectly in time with the initital setting, speed it up one click...and keep doing that until they're up to tempo.

[Tone Taster]

Yup, when YOU make he metronome groove, is where it's at

 

It's a trip when you are so on, that the clicks become silent and you are nailing everything.

 

The drum machine is definitely a good expansive tool, but I am old school and love working w/different met exercises

 

Another problem w/the DM is stylistic issues. What if you want different feels for certain tunes and you just want to play continuously but not have to poke around fishing for the appropriate beats. Sometimes the met wins for pure simplicity

[Big Red 67]

Originally posted by yZeCounsel:

Yup, when YOU make he metronome groove, is where it's at

 

It's a trip when you are so on, that the clicks become silent and you are nailing everything.

 

The drum machine is definitely a good expansive tool, but I am old school and love working w/different met exercises

 

Another problem w/the DM is stylistic issues. What if you want different feels for certain tunes and you just want to play continuously but not have to poke around fishing for the appropriate beats. Sometimes the met wins for pure simplicity

That's why I love that old tube thingy. It just feels cool!

[Bejeeber]

A drum machine can do what a metronome does and so much more of course, but just isn't as easily transported and set up everywhere you go.

 

Hmmmm..that's why that Dr. Beat that Fantasticsound has looks purty nice actually. Slap it down anywhere and practice with it just as easily as a metronome, but there's beats in that little thang too!

 

The dumbest thing IMO is the traditional pendulum metronome. I can't see using one of those pieces of &^*@ in this day and age, since it's pulse will be askew if it's not sitting on a completely level surface.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Bejeeber:

The dumbest thing IMO is the traditional pendulum metronome. I can't see using one of those pieces of &^*@ in this day and age, since it's pulse will be askew if it's not sitting on a completely level surface.

Well, I didn't know about the need for a perfectly level surface. I suppose people get something out of watching the needle move. It's a bit like a conductor's baton, I guess?

[The Big G]

Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

Originally posted by Sleaze_Disease:

I could be wrong, but I always looked at it as people use metronomes to practice playing scales and stuff and trying to play like Yngwie, but a drum machine is useful when you're playing riffs and learning to play in time.

Yeah, but you could always program a simple click track into the drum machine.

 

I'm asking because I've been toying with the idea of getting a metronome like all the shredder guys reckon one should and I'm wondering what so special about the metronome (presumably shredders have heard of drum machines ).

 

I've never really bothered with a metronome, so there could be some aspect to them that I'd never thought of. I suppose you save on an amp jack but beyond that?

Yes always thought a drum machine was the best way of keeping time but I aint no shredder so no metronome

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

What is the relationship between shredders and metronomes? I started using a metronome in High School music class and have used them in college and private Classical Guitar lessons since then. I'm not a shredder, I play classical guitar....I never knew that metronomes were associated with shredders.....why is that?

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Maybe I don't know what a "shredder" is?

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Sasquatch51:

What is the relationship between shredders and metronomes?

I have no idea why, but shredders seem to be right into them. I found it unusual enough to be puzzling.

 

I've seen metronomes come up in guitar mags with shredding columns. Not discussions on the best metronome to buy or whatever, but the expectation that the reader should own one is often implicit. Or so it seems to me, anyway. Maybe it's that whole Yngwie/Paganini exercises thing.

[fantasticsound]

I think the perceived connection between shredders and metronomes is that many players learn without a metronome.. and can fairly easily if they're not playing really fast.

 

It would be harder to learn time for 64th notes at 150bpm without a timepiece of some sort than to strum some Dylan, etc. where the timing is freer in part because of the slow beat and in part because you can swing the music a lot. Not so with hypersonic scales, etc.

 

I, personally, like pyramid, pendulum metronomes. I have fond memories of the one that lived on my parents' piano. Like Big Red's old tube metronome, there's a mystique that's attached to it for me. Kinda like using a neat old wind-up watch. Most wind-ups don't keep time like quartz electronic timepieces and need to be wound periodically (most, anyway) but there's a romance of connecting to the past.

 

Convenience and ultimate precision don't necessarily mean increased enjoyment. I'll still take a piano over a sampled keyboard any day if my enjoyment is the primary use of the instrument. I'd have to be travelling with it to prefer the keyboard. It's about how an inanimate object makes you feel about what you're using it for.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

I, personally, like pyramid, pendulum metronomes...there's a mystique that's attached to it for me. Kinda like using a neat old wind-up watch. Most wind-ups don't keep time like quartz electronic timepieces and need to be wound periodically (most, anyway) but there's a romance of connecting to the past.

I know what you mean, my mum once bought me an electronic one (a tactell) but it just wasn't the same as the old fashioned ones. I was so disappointed.

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

I have no idea why, but shredders seem to be right into them. I found it unusual enough to be puzzling.

I believe it's all about the speed.

 

The faster the tempo, the more need for perfect timing, and that's where a metronome comes in.

 

Why a metronome instead of a drum machine...?

Just quicker/easier to turn on and go...set the BMP and play away.

 

I still have a vintage pendulum style, windup metronome from back from the 60's, that I had to use when practicing the piano. Just about every lesson was accompanied by the metronome.

 

Andit's better to learn with one right from the start, rather than waiting until you have the licks nailed.

Just set the metronome on a slower BMP...and then increase as you get better, until you reach your desired tempo.

 

I don't use mine all that much anymore...it just sits on top of the piano...

...but I do use a Click track with every recording session.

[Squ]

Originally posted by Sleaze_Disease:

I could be wrong, but I always looked at it as people use metronomes to practice playing scales and stuff and trying to play like Yngwie, but a drum machine is useful when you're playing riffs and learning to play in time.

Guys, using a metronome doesn't imply trying to become a shredder. It implies trying to improve your timing. You can do this on anything... fast arrpeggio licks, scales, solos you learnt from records that you can't quite play up to speed yet, and yes.. rhythm guitar, chunking out chords, doing whatever you want. I use it for a lot of that stuff and I also use it to find the right tempo for some originals and write the actual bpm down so I can remember.

 

I don't understand what you mean by saying a drum machine is useful when you're learning to "play in time," you're kind of implying that a metronome won't help you do that. The reason why shedders use metronomes is because to play fast you NEED to be able to play in time, and be able to accurately play all the subdivisions. If for some reason you can play to a drum machine but not a metronome, there might be something wrong.

 

But having a drum machine vs. metronome fight is just silly, and I'm not trying to do so. A drum machine is a metronome that can do more things and make drum sounds. It's clearly superior. But a metronome is all I need right now.. and it's silly to diss a metronome or dismiss it as something that only shedders use.

 

All that being said, I use this $20 metronome:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--KORMA30

 

http://media.zzounds.com/media/brand,zzounds/fit,325by400/quality,85/MA-30-b6287a3874ba82b3a881c8238c3d122a.jpg

[Scott Fraser]

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Yup, when you're really at one with the tempo, the click disappears.

 

Scott Fraser

[Scott Fraser]

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Even the best mechanical metronomes have a slight swing to them (to my ears at least) so I would imagine if it's not perfectly level it will swing every other beat just that much more. My main problem with the mechanical ones is I can never find the volume control.

 

Scott Fraser

[Justus A. Picker]

Originally posted by Scott Fraser:

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Yup, when you're really at one with the tempo, the click disappears.

 

Scott Fraser

That throws me off! Same thing happens when I'm recording bass and lock with the kick. I start straining to hear it and and screw up......

[Bejeeber]

The mechanical ones - I do have to admit they have a certain vibe, what with their acousticness, and no battery/no frikkin mercury pollution required.

 

One other thing I didn't like about 'em though was their tendency to stop clicking when their winding ran out, and they way they'd slowwwww down as they wound down.

 

So hopefully a solar or kinetic powered teeny lightweight metronome/drum machine (with convincing acoustic pendulum tone that emanates from it's little speaker) will hit the market soon. For $15.

[Eric Iverson]

One thing I do when I sit down to work with a metronome, which I am not a slave to, by the way:

 

Set it a tempo, and 1) play one note in quarter notes in perfect synch, then eighth notes, then triplets, then sixteenths.. just to "relax into the groove". After that, using it to work on music is a lot easier.

 

I do plan on working with the metronome more, and help this guitarist I play with get used to one. He has a good feel for rhythm but sometimes gets to rushing... yes, it's a common tendency for most of us! And it's cool when a band speeds up the tempo TOGETHER...