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OT: Mac Computers


Hardtail

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Mac vs. PC...now there's a subject that could incite a religious war.

 

Personally, I'm platform agnostic, but right now I'm using a full blown Mac Quad 2.5 w/8GB RAM for audio work.

 

I'd only consider a PC for pro audio applications if I was using Nuendo (I'm using Logic Pro on the G5). I know a guy who swears by Nuendo/WindowsXP (he doesn't swear at it).

 

You gonna be using your computer for recording music?

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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I switched from windows to Mac a little over a year ago-no regrets and I'll never ever ever go back to using PCs. :D If you have a friend that uses a Mac,have them go with you to shop for one or go to an Apple Store as the folks there are always eager to show a windows user the wonderful ways of Mac. And you'll be openly congratulated for making the switch! :love:
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I started "computer life" on a PC, when you needed to know DOS!!! I then was a Mac guy for years. I loved my Macs. But, my bro is a Windows programer at a fairly high level (and a decent guitarist as well, I might add!!). He convinced me to go back to a PC/Windows machine. His big thing is that you can get/use softwhere from just about anywhere for a PC. I have a digitech/protools set up in my studio all run off an Alienware PC, and a bunch of PC/windows machines in our home network for my family's use. We love our PC's, but I honestly loved my Macs as well. I've always heard that Macs were "better" for music applications. But, I don't have any personal experience with a Mac in a music studio.

 

Anyone out there that can comment on Macs in a music studio?

 

Don

Don

 

"There once was a note, Pure and Easy. Playing so free, like a breath rippling by."

 

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=574296

 

http://www.myspace.com/imdrs

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Originally posted by Hard Tail:

Originally posted by Bejeeber:

You gonna be using your computer for recording music?

Yes.
I do some graphics work for a local recording studio. He is strickly Mac when it comes to recording - now uses Logic Pro. I posted a link a couple of days ago on a mini web seminar dealing with guitars and macs. Its about 45 minutes total, but you can see what can be done with even the basic software that comes with macs.
Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren.
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Originally posted by A String:

...I just won't use them at home. Nasty little things...

Wait, let me run to the post office. I want my disc back, you nasty cariboo. :D:mad::D
Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren.
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Originally posted by mdrs:

Anyone out there that can comment on Macs in a music studio?Don

This is another thread I just started. I am going to repost it here for ease of reading it so as not to have to go back and forth.

 

I have a Pro Tools Digidesign 002 Rack setup with Pro Tools LE 7.1 running on a G4 Mac 1.25GHz Dual Processor. Sounds decent but I am having so many problems.

 

About 4 years ago I finally decided to buy a G3 Mac and get Pro Tool 5 and a Digi 001. A little ways into it and I realized that the G3 was not powerful enough...even though it was fully supported.

 

The Mac G5's were just coming out but they were not supported for my 001. Since I did not want to have to buy a new computer AND a new 002 recording hardware setup, I got a G4 instead which was supported with my 001.

 

Shorly after that Digidesign drops support for the 001 altogether!!

 

Then they go to Pro Tools 6 and Mac goes to Panther. I weed through all the bugs and updates, endure a miserable period where an iTunes and Quicktime update by Apple just DESTROYS Pro Tools and it takes weeks to figure it out.

 

And then they go to Pro Tools 7 and Mac goes to Tiger. Now nothing I have works because 001 is officially not qualified for Pro Tools 7 and Tiger.

 

So I go drop the $1100 and buy the Digi 002 Rack, and I pay more for it to get the Factory Plug In Bundle, and I go to Tiger, but now it is apparent that I am undercomputed again....and I am really wishing I had a G5!!!

 

Then Digi goes to v7.1 and it turns out thata lot of the old plug ins ( that I paid the extra money for ) dont work and cause crashes and instability. My system performance had dropped to awful so I figured I would try the updates.

 

Did that today and now my Pro Tools won't run at all . Crashes every two minutes or so.

 

I am so frustrated. Dammit! I am spending ALL my time trying to fix bugs and stay ahead of the game, and NO time writing and recording.

 

It totally sucks..these manufacturers have got me by the nuts....and the only way out is to spend more money on a bigger better computer and a better recording platform like Digidesign HD or something.....I mean I am sure that a phone call and my Visa card for the support charge will get some joy eventually, but is it too much of me to expect to pay all this money and not have it work correctly?

 

I am seriously considering going to Windows! I would never have said that 2 years ago...but reports are that the Pro Tools system is way more stable on XP. This is a nightmare.

 

Pay for another computer??

 

Because this is long I will post my next one seperately.

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Originally posted by caprae:

Originally posted by A String:

...I just won't use them at home. Nasty little things...

Wait, let me run to the post office. I want my disc back, you nasty cariboo. :D:mad::D
Sorry, that was a little harsh. I just found Macs to be very limiting. My Father-in-law uses one and I find it frustrating when I need to help him out...
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Caprae your guy is using Logic Pro which is an Apple thing...they get good performance those Logic guys. But I do not like the look of the interface. Very dark, I feel like a Goth dude when I look at it. And steep learning curve!

 

I think right now folks need to be real careful when making the decision of whether to buy Mac or PC and then what platform to get, Pro Tools, M-Audio, Digital Performer etc etc.

 

For general graphic stuff, iPhoto stuff, CD and DVD burning, making movies from your video camera etc etc Mac RULES!!!

 

However, it is becoming increasingly eveident that right now Windows is a better system for audio.

 

And I am talking home studio stuff.

 

The Mac still rules for the big studios and post production BUT you are talking expensive systems that you and I cannot afford.

 

For the under $3000 budget it is PC that is kicking butt right now.

 

Plus Mac is going Intel and will run both Windows and MacOSX, but has not yet released a desktop model. only a laptop. So I would wait anyway before rushing to spend a lot of money on a system. See what the desktops come in at.

 

An intel Mac using XP to run Pro Tools or M-Audio, and then the Mac OS for all other stuff might be the way to go.

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<>

 

Sorry to hear of your woes, but I'd lay the blame upon Digidesign for about 95% of it. They have a well established reputation for rescinding support for older products as well as making damn sure that their cheap systems don't infringe on the market for their flagship HD systems by working too well.

I run my studio business on Digital Performer 4.6 running on a G5, which is an upgrade from DP 3 running on a G4. All in all I've probably done at least 100 album projects with the software since moving from tape based recording. It works, & you should have a system that works too. I don't want to get into a platform war here, but I believe a move to ProTools under Windows is not your answer. One of the other DAWs running on your current Mac would make more sense to me. Just my opinion.

And if you ever decide to try DP, let me know. I'm in LA too & I can get you set up.

 

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser
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<>

 

I disagree. I think Windows has finally gotten up to the point that Mac has been at for quite some time, but Macs are in no way less capable than they ever were for audio.

 

<

The Mac still rules for the big studios and post production BUT you are talking expensive systems that you and I cannot afford. >>

 

While this is really true as concerns ProTools, again I disagree when it comes to other platforms. DP, for instance, can run on anything from the built in Mac audio, all the way up to Digidesign HD hardware, & a whole lot of MOTU hardware in between, AND it's the exact same software. There is no LE or "lite" version of DP because the fullblown version runs on any hardware, it scales up as well as down the hardware foodchain. PT does not.

 

<>

 

Again, a full blown DP system can be done in this price range too. Probably Logic too & some others.

I wouldn't rule the Mac out yet just because you've had a bad experience with ProTools. I'd look at another DAW, myself.

 

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser
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Yeah Scott you know I was looking at both when they were up and running well and most of the bugs were sorted. DP looked good to me but I was daunted at the time by the price of the software and the hardware. The 001 seemed a good deal and I had played with PT Free and liked the feel of it.

 

The word was that DP was great for MIDI guys and PT was great for strictly audio guys. I am sure you remember all this.

 

So I went PT and I have gotten so used to the interface, I really like it. When it is on it is amazing and I feel like I am working in a regular analog studio....well kinda...you know what I mean. As a player less than an engineer.

 

But in retrospect I may have ended up spending less if I had gone DP from the get go.

 

It is frustrating because I gag at the thought of another learning curve and spending 6-7 hundred dollars for new software..

 

Take a look at this thread from the Pro Tools on Windows Forum. These guys are engineers that built a killer PC. It is a long thread and requires some patience, but if you know how Macs choke on Plug Ins, take a look at the screenshot of this PC.

 

Anyway.... I am thinking about building one. Also I have Garritan Personal Orchestra and Garritan Jazz and Big Band...they dont work well on the Mac at all so I was thinking about getting a PC to run them. I get about 8 samples loaded with 1.25GB RAM....PC machines get a full 64 samples with one Gig...I am going to 2 gig next week to see if it will help as it is cheap eanough right now...but you see the differences.

 

Bottom line..I get less than 10 Dverbs ( Pro Tools proprietery Reverb plug in....that sucks...) and my system is choking...this Quadzilla machine gets about 149 and does not skip a beat 12-14 hours a day...no crashes, no whatevers. These guys are building these boxes for abour $2000 or less.

 

Here are the threads.

This one shows 490 Dverbs but he had the session bit rate and sample rate lower I think, itwas an error...but still amazing. Use that scroll bar, you will see the CPU meter...32 tracks record armed, 160 something Aux tracks all with 5 Dverb plugs on each!!! A minute or so recorded, 32 tracks at once

 

screenshot

 

actual thread with specs

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Get a mac! I'm so sick of PC's. Mac's don't get virus's and I like them better. But don't take my word for it.
I am known as Valentinez Alkalinella Xifax Sicidabohertz Gombigobilla Blue Stradivari Talentrent Pierre Andri Charton Haymoss Ivanovici Baldeus George Doitzel Kaiser the Third Dont hesitate to call
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Take mine.

I started on Amigas.

I had about 6 of them I just installed my fourth Mac.

A Power mac G5 Dual 2g.

Holy crap.

It's nice and it's easy too.

 

When I sit down at WIndows OS I I always ask myself "when are they going to finish this hog ? " " why can't I see where anything is going?" and so forth.

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Originally posted by Warthog:

Gaming on a Mac

 

Don\'t Buy a Mac

 

For a couple laughs...

What I saw was pretty funny, and I'm a mac guy through and through. But it was real slow downloading - must have been a windows server. :D:eek::D

 

No bombs, please. I'm just joking!

Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren.
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There is also Logic Express, though if you don't like the interface for the pro version then you probably won't like the interface for the Express version.

 

I think a lot of the problems you are having might be one of the reasons my friend switch over to Logic. He lists Pro Tools on his web site, but everytime I've been over there when he is recording he is using Logic.

Maxwell Recording Studio

Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren.
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In reading back over your original thread you might want to go back to the operating system that was working for you. How old is this G4? Is it a dual processor? How much RAM?

 

If I read you correctly, you don't have a G5 dually and you don't have at least 2 gig of Ram. The Ram upgrade would come first in my book. Also, the studio I listed above, when he was running pro tools he had that mac dedicated to pro tools. There was nothing else on it. Once it was working, he didn't touch it until he upgraded to a G5 dually and went with Logic. I'm sure that is all he is running on it, too, because that is his bread and butter machine. He has other machines to run the other programs he lists.

 

The Intel desktops are due this fall (rumor has it). I'm also hearing rumors of quad processors in them. It might be worth hanging on until then.

Raise your children and spoil your grandchildren. Spoil your children and raise your grandchildren.
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Yeah well Caprae, that OS was Panther and the PT LE version was 6.9...and I agree to an extent that I should never have upgraded. But such is the trap. If I did not upgrade, pretty soon I would be left with an obsolete system and would not be able to enjoy the " new and improved " features.

 

You expect it to work....in good faith....and it should!

 

The apps and the plug in's are actually more CPU intensive than RAM, but having said that I did order two more 512's yesterday to take me to 2 Gig, and it should help a little for sure.

 

It will definitely help my Orchestral and Jazz libraries and Reason which do run in RAM a lot.

 

Thanks.

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Once you go Mac you'll never go back... I know lots of folks switching to Macs but VERY FEW Mac owners switching to Windows Machines. My G5 is a CADILLAC.
"well fellas... there's 1 other thing yer gonna need to make it in Rock & Roll besides all them guitars and amps and drums and things. They call it A SONG..."
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Originally posted by strangedogs:

My G5 is a CADILLAC.

That may very well be, but with the 2.5 Gig systems, carrying a price tag of $3,999.00 CND , it also comes with a CADILLAC price.

 

I have an identical system (Only I bought a Celeron D 2.9 Gig CPU) with the same amount of ram, the same video card, even the serial ATA drive etc., that I assembled myself for just over $300.

 

The real bonus is, if I feel like it, I can upgrade to a Pentium 4 2.8 Gig for an additional $139.99 and I can max out my ram for another $90. That would bring my grand total to $529.99 for a system that is substantially quicker then the G5 for $3740 less...

 

I also have a lot of head room and can continue to upgrade from there in the future if I choose.

 

I should also note that, since I built this system, it has been trouble free. The main problem on PCs is user error. Because the system is so open and configurable, it can get some people into trouble.

 

Regarding the viruses, if enough people have a Mac, there WILL be viruses on them. Right now, all the guys who are making viruses have PCs. As more folks get Macs, the inclination to design viruses for them will increase. One thing I can tell you for sure is, anything that can be written, can be hacked.

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Wow A String, that is an expensive piece of Mac.

 

I think I paid less than $1000.00 for my system that I built myself; it's a quality machine (windows/linux dual boot).

 

What intriques me about the macs lately though is their OS X Tiger. It's supposed to be based on a UNIX and/or Linux kernel.

 

I agree with you about the viruses too though any UNIX/Linux based system is a helluva lot harder to hack because the security infrastructure is much better. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's harder to hack.

 

The Windows Registry just makes it too easy for a hacker to put nasty things on your PC. The Registry is the worst piece of technological "s**t" that I've ever seen in my professional experience as a s/w engineer.

 

Ah... I've had PCs for so long that I'll probably keep a PC for the rest of my days. But... the Macs are starting to get my attention.

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except a unix-based OS is much harder to hack. We don't have a REGISTRY where stuff gets implanted - we require admin passwords for almost any install... I also can FINALLY surf the WEB without adware, spyware, pop-ups and FEAR of Viruses. The Mac is more expensive for a reason - it keeps the script kiddies away, is a much more enjoyable "ride" and OS 10.4.6 is what Windows XP SHOULD HAVE BEEN...

 

I own 2 Windows machines - but they sit in a bedroom and collect dust... If you bought a Mac and used it for at least a week your PC's would start collecting dust too. :thu:

"well fellas... there's 1 other thing yer gonna need to make it in Rock & Roll besides all them guitars and amps and drums and things. They call it A SONG..."
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