Warthog Got Me thinking about Tubes

[Pappy P]

Quoting Warthog:

 

It's amazing to me that we can put a man on the moon, cure many diseases, solve complex architectural problems like giant skyscrapers, spans, and bridges, but we still haven't found a way to mimic tube amplification with solid state! And I agree, that tube sound (and I do love the smell of the tubes when they heat up too!) isn't available in transistors...

 

When and Why did the Quest to make SS sound like tube start.

 

If the tube makes the sound your are looking for, why try to get it from solid state circuitry.

 

I understand all the marketing claims that this tube pre-amp will give you the tube sound or this SS modeling amp sounds just like a tube amp. People are looking to save money.

 

But who was it that told people to try to get SS to sound like tube.

 

Myles, it seems to me that the tube does the job. Is there something un-disirable in tube circuitry that begs to be replace by SS.

 

Please clue me in.

[musicalhair]

I'm sure someone will be answering this better than I but here goes.

 

SS components are cheaper to build, easier to assemble, need less maintenance, lighter, and I think the factories to make those components have less worker safety and environmental problems.

 

Making tubes is nasty business, it is either impossible or prohibitively expensive to do so in a manner that protects the workers and deals with the waste. Damn shame.

 

Tubes generate heat and respond differently as they heat up, and heat is like a wear and tear factor. Since solid state doesn't have this problem, that alone would make it a more desirable building component.

 

Solid state had to sound like tubes for the same reason that digital synths had to do Rhodes electric piano and Hammond B-3 Organs and even analog synth sounds: it is the sound we all came to expect and sounds natural to us. Especially in distortions sounds tube apparently got it right right off the bat were as solid state distortion doesn't sound right unless designed into it, and that design had to try to get what tubes get.

 

If Solid State were invented before tubes we might be singing a different tune, at least to some extent.

 

I can't wait till the real experts (and we have so many here, which is what makes this a great place) chime in so I can see where I'm wrong.

[caprae]

Actually, musicalhair, I think you did an excellent job.

 

Either that or its like my wife says, "Say things like you know what you're talking about and people will believe you whether you're right or wrong."

[pollock]

yeah, musicalhair thats pretty much it.

 

although i have heard tube amps that sound crappy but im sure it was the guitarist/soundman who didnt know what they were doing...

[musicalhair]

Thanks guys.

 

Yeah pollock, I agree but it stands to reason that there is crappy tube gear and SS gear out there. Especially since they are sticking tubes into everything the past few years, even leaving windows so you can see the glow

[Pappy P]

I forgot my follow up question:

 

So Solid State only exists to replace tubes?

 

From what I understand, Solid State if great for clean tones, is that correct?

[Trucks]

Papster, from what I understand solid state will always give you a consistent tone with no hiccups blips whizzes cracks or pops As to whether it gives you a better clean tone, it really depends what you want out of it... Ive been using a tube-ish amp for a couple of weeks and im more than impressed with the clean tones i get. I also am not that impressed with the clean tones on the Spider II 30 that im selling.

 

I think really it comes down to personal preference, the friend I borrowed the amp from prefers solid state as it is always spot on.. I prefer the natural clean sound of a tube.

[musicalhair]

I think first and foremost there are good amps and bad amps, polytone walter woods and others are loved by jazz guys for their clean tone but above and beyond the tone being clean it is good souding. Fender tube and the old HiWatt (now Reeves apparently) amps have great clean tones as well, as does the Roland JC-120 which is SS. For what it's worth the clean tones out of my Riveras are just out of this world I love them so much.

 

As for rock tones where clean has a different meaning, well there may be plenty of ways to get there even with an amp that is known for it's clean sound.

 

In that Supergroup show on VH1 Scott Ian is playing through a Randall and I thought those are all solid state, the Nuge is playing through some Peavey. I guess only Tera Patrick's pimp thought enough to get it so he could use his old Ampeg SVT rig.

 

I played with a guy that used a Randall and he loved his tones for rock and others loved it too. They are doing interesting things with SS amps. I remember when a freind walked in with a Crate like 15 years ago and we were all shocked at the tone. It crapped out on him a week later, it was actually funny is a bad kinda way to see him hyping the amp on one sunday and trashing it the very next sunday.

 

I've got a Fender Harvard Reverb II (SS) that has a killer distorted sound, I used to range somewhere from Sabbath to Sanatana (in my mind anyway ) with it.

 

For my money I want a good tube amp, not just some thing with tubes in it. I like my 2 Riveras and for little amps I like the Blues Jr, my old (70's) Pro Reverb and my little Ampeg Jet and the SS Harvard Reverb II. I've used Roland JC-120's a lot though, and I'd not diss a Walter Woods or a Polytone. I'll be checking out a Marshall 1987X in a couple of weeks to see what that is about.

[Greg B.]

Randall does make a few tube amps. I'm not sure what model they are or how they sound, but they do make tube stuff.

 

The Nuge plays Peavey 5150 amps.

 

I had one of those Harvard Reverb II's several years ago, and for SS, it was a pretty good sounding amp, especially the distortion.

 

I will have to agree 100% about wanting a good tube amp, not just something with tubes in it. I'm pretty damn happy with my Classic 30 and my new Epi Valve Jr. head. I don't see myself parting with either one anytime soon!

[LPCustom]

nevermind

[mdrs]

There are good tube amps, and bad. A good one is hard to replicate without using tubes. And, for that matter, a good solid state amp is pretty hard to replicate with a tube amp!!!

 

I haven't seen anyone mention Fuchs Amps. I am a tube amp freak, and am luck enough to have many...new, and vintage. I have never played a Dumble, but many experts feel that they are one of the best tube amps ever (Carlos Santana, Larry Carlton, etc.). Andy Fuchs' Overdrive Specials (ODS) are as good a tube amp as I've ever heard or played. Apparently, they can equal the best Dumbles. They are not cheap, but you get what you pay for. And, Andy's amps are awesome! I've got a ODS 50 watt head, and a custom shop ODS 30 watt 2x12 combo, in a flammed maple/wicker cab that is to die for. Think the sweetest Duane Allman you've ever heard, and that's what Andy's ODS amps can do.....and more!!

 

And, by the way, my studio will never be without my Roland JC 120. It is a solid state amp, with two amps on board (stereo). It has an amazing clean sound. Many Jazz guys use them. But, in my opinion, it's forte is it's chorus effect, which is the best chorus I've heard. The fact that the amp is in stereo helps this Roland chorus to simply kick butt!! I'll often play a Marshall and the Roland with the chorus engages together. The sound is sublime!!