Gruupi Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 I would think that any decent electronics buff should basicly be able to make a really good copy of any amp. You could even go so far to measure the capacitance or resistance of each piece in a that special amp and get the sound spot on. Say Robben Ford wanted a duplicate of his favorite Dumble, couldn't someone with out to much effort copy that? I am not saying you could market and mass produce such a thing legally, but for the person that wanted something really specific, what stops a boutique builder from making an exact copy? Am I missing what variables make an amp special, I'm not an electronics guy, just asking the question. My soundclick site: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=397188 My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/gruupi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Anything that can be designed can be copied exactly IF the effort is worth the labor. http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone Taster Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by Gruupi: Say Robben Ford wanted a duplicate of his favorite Dumble, couldn't someone with out to much effort copy that? K & M (Two-rock) do it the best, but as far as dumble emulation is concerned, Howard covered all of his circuits with huge amounts of goop and epoxy so that no one could do what you are talking about So, most of it is highly educated guess work Now as far as old Marshall Circuits go, it is tough because that was with all English Military Spec components, which are hard to come by these days Mojomusical supply has all of the kits for just about any classic amp you would want. Seems like Mercury Magnetics is making some high quality stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappy P Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 I'd like to hear Myles input. Bump. www.birdblues.com My Stuff On Sound Click Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by yZeCounsel: Mojomusical supply has all of the kits for just about any classic amp you would want. Yeah, but for the prices they charge for kits, you could get a real vintage amp already put together. Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone Taster Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by Picker: Originally posted by yZeCounsel: Mojomusical supply has all of the kits for just about any classic amp you would want. Yeah, but for the prices they charge for kits, you could get a real vintage amp already put together. Not true. If you want a pre 1972 JTM 45 you are going to pay at least more than 2000 Good God, an 80W Tweed Twin would be 5 bills easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruupi Posted June 14, 2006 Author Share Posted June 14, 2006 I was even being more specific, we all know that to amps of the same model can sound different. I was thinking that you could put a meter to each componant and match its characteristics. I know you wouldn't want to do this to every amp, but if you were a rock star and came across a holy grail amp, I would think you would want to duplicate it. My soundclick site: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=397188 My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/gruupi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeton Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 It can be done, it is being done. Take a look at all the Marshall non-master clones and Marshall 18W combo clones there are everywhere. I've seen slews of cloned Fender amps too. Ebay is rife with cloned guitar equipment. All the parts are available, if not exact parts, similarly spec'd replacements, etc. It simply boils down to being a lot of work and oftentimes counterprofitable. While you might enjoy doing it and will learn a lot, you won't usually save any money unless you're copying something vintage or rare. Amplifiers are a little better in this regard, but stuff like stompboxes are pretty much impossible to make any money on because manufacturers can sell very professional looking stuff for less money than you can buy the parts for. People build clones of certain amps for themselves a lot, but if you want to start selling them that's a whole different sack of monkeys. Also, poking around in tube-fired equipment should only be done by someone who knows what they're doing, as you can get killed pretty dead by some of the voltages you'll find in there. So your basic answer is yes. Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper . WWND? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel E. Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I've done it. I cloned my '57 Fender Super-Amp. Went through with a meter and measured all the component values (some of which are now drastically differerent from the schematic). Mercury Magnetics makes exact reproductions of all the old Triad transformers that Fender used. The interleaving is the same. I used those. Made a lot of layout and component changes because I'm building a better amp than the original. But I could have made an exact replica if I wanted to. I'm 3/4 done now (after an 8 month Katrina interruption). I'll let everyone know how it turns out. FYI Dumble amps aren't probably that hard to clone because while the circuits are covered in goop, they're still just modified Fender circuits. Also, none of this is illegal. For all intents and purposes, tube circuits are open source. There are few patents - Mesa Boogie has one for the channel switching MKII. Back in the day, Fender used circuits that Western Electric gave away for free. Gibson offered it's own version of almost every Fender tweed amp. The first Marshall JTM 45 was a copy of a Fender 5F6 Bassman. The first Mesa/Boogie was a hopped-up Fender Princeton. The preamp circuitry in both the Mesa Rectifier series amps and the Peavey 5150 are lifted from the Soldano SLO 100. No one gets to claim prior use. "You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeton Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Exactly. What the Man With The Cheese said. By the way, Gabriel, how *are* you faring these days after the Katrina thing? I'm not over here much Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper . WWND? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol-Ann Amps Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Just noticed this thread and felt I should respond. In answer to the original question, yes there have been several Dumbles that have been degooped. I have over 100 pictures of such. I build custom tube amps for a living and a customer of mine came to me wanting a 'Dumble Clone'. I spent a while doing the research and ended up building a replica of a later model 100W Overdrive Special (HRM Model with Skyliner tone stack). Here are some pictures of the finished amp and one showing part of a degooped original circuit. Incidentally these amps do really sound stunning and are virtually silent. I have sold several since and use one myself when I play live. http://www.carolannamps.com/dumble_clone.htm Kind Regards, Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Hi Alan and welcome to the Forum, glad you stopped by. Looks like you do some fantastic work! I just finished up a 1962 Fender Pro Amp and love it. Please stick around the Forum we would love for you to contribute from time to time....Lee in Detroit. http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Yeah, welcome, Alan! That's a very pretty amp. "A cheerful heart is good medicine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 That's a beautiful amp, Alan! Dare I ask how much you sell those for? (Hopefully a little less than Howard's originals. ) It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruupi Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 Welcome to the forum Carol Ann. I had forgotten about this thread, for me it was just hypothetical. I didn't want to build anything, was just curious about how close something could be cloned. My soundclick site: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=397188 My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/gruupi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILLO Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Anyone got a few thousands to give away? "Without music, life would be a mistake." --from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche My MySpace Space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarPlayerFL Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Originally posted by yZeCounsel: Not true. If you want a pre 1972 JTM 45 you are going to pay at least more than 2000When I got my '65 with matching 4X12 in the early 80s, I got it for $250....MINT. They ain't that cheap now. I told Jim Marshall at NAMM I had one, and his eyes lit up BIG and said to never sell it...it's the best amp he made. A Jazz/Chord Melody Master-my former instructor www.robertconti.com (FKA GuitarPlayerSoCal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol-Ann Amps Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 An amp just like the one in the pictures costs $2400 + delivery costs. To add a true 'Dumbleator' style buffered efx loop costs $200 extra. Kind Regards, Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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