Sanding & Staining Question.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Many years ago, I painted my bass with normal house paint.

 

Now, over twenty years later, I've taken the paint off but there's a couple of things that puzzle me. I'm sanding it down to get rid of the last of the paint and various dings.

 

But I can't understand why I'm getting these "swirls" as you can see on the LH of the photo.

 

It's like I've sanded all the way through an outer layer of wood and found another? Can someone explain this to me, please? I can understand a thin layer of some really exotic figured wood but this bass seems to be made of strips and bits of very ordinary wood.

 

I'm really puzzled. Will staining the wood fix the problem?

 

Also, how does obe take off the "witch's hat" knobs? There's no screw on the side and they don't come off when I pull on them.

 

http://www.geocities.com/vince_cabrera/scratches.jpg

[Trucks]

For the knobs there is probably a plastic catch under the silver plate on the top.

 

Im not really sure what you mean by swirls on the left?

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by lee83:

Im not really sure what you mean by swirls on the left?

Well, the lighter bits on the left hand side, where I seem to have sanded clear through the finish.

[Trucks]

I personally would remove all the gear from the guitar body and 'gently' take a belt sander to it to take all the original finish off then refinish it from scratch. Most finish's tend to darken wood quite a bit, does the grain correllate with the surrounding darker wood?

 

Its kinda hard to tell from the photo though... Any chance of a close-up?

 

I've seen guitars (and wooden objects in general) that have had dings, scratches or imperfections be filled with a mixture of glue and sawdust then sanded flush. But I would have thought something like that would have been noticable before you painted it.

[The Big G]

kramer

as lee says try and strip as much off it as you can, maybe a belt sander is a bit too strong for my liking, but if you are getting a swirl try rubbing the area with wire wool xtra fine as it could be part of the lacquer that has gone deeper into the wood than in other parts or again as Lee mentioned a glue / sawdust filler. Hope it goes well and we can see the end result, it will be great I am sure.

[The Geoff]

Looks like you've gone through the veneer there, Mate. You might be able to stain it back - I'd then do a Tung oil finish, but then I do Tung oil on a lot of things .

 

I don't recognise the model - EB0 & Jazz pickups...mmmmmmm.

 

G.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Well, I took the bass round to my favourite shop and the luthier there told me that yes, I had gone through the veneer.

 

I found it hard to believe 'cause the "veneer" makes it look as if the bass has been made from bits of wood that were lying around the factory floor, but such is life. One thinks "veneer" and one thinks "bubinga zebra striped koa flametop whatever", not a thing that looks like it was made of strips.

 

I'm going to borrow a sander tomorrow and sand the whole thing down, after which I'll have to get a sealant and then I'll probably do the whole thing in some dark purple colour. I think it'll look good with the maple fretboard.

 

After which, I'll get someone to cut me a new scratchplate in red tortoise-shell. It'll look really cool. It's always had that muddy, Gibson E3 sound so the paint shouldn't make much diff.

 

The witch's hat knobs should come off by levering on them with a screwdriver. I've got some new ones too.

 

Geoff: I found it over twenty years ago in a pawnshop. Someone had turned it into (or from) an 8 string (it has 4 extra holes in the headstock and 8 grooves in the nut). It originally had two minihumbucker things placed diagonally in a U shaped scratchplate. I changed the pickups and put on a new (badass) bridge and schaller machineheads. The J pickup was my solution to the Fender/Gibson question ("what the hell! I'll take one of each!") The thinner sound of the J compensates quite nicely for the muddy, Middle Earth roar of the Gibson.

[The Geoff]

How do they sound in combination?

 

G.

[A String]

Be sure to post a pic of the final product.

[Big Red 67]

Finish remover is better then a belt sander. Orbital sanders are better then belt sanders. The belt sander can make VERY deep effects. Good for a signal not good for wood!

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Geoff Byrne:

How do they sound in combination?

 

G.

Quite nice, actually. The Jazz adds a bit of definition to the top. Or you can use them singly. When I'm finished I'll put up some sound bytes.

 

 

I'm getting confused over the different types of sanders. I'm after the one that looks like this

 

http://www.made-in-china.com/showimages/111/300021769/0/Power_Tools-Sander.jpg

 

if it takes stuff away, that's not a problem 'cause I'm using the sanding to get rid of a few dings and things.

[Guitarzan]

i am in the process of sanding my pacifica. it will be white instead of black.

i have discovered a section on the edge like you have, i assume it is where i have broken through the sealer coat.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Guitarzan:

i have discovered a section on the edge like you have, i assume it is where i have broken through the sealer coat.

hey, do you think if we put them together they'll turn out to be a treasure map?

 

 

If the bare bits are where you've gone through the sealer coat, what's the rest of it look like?

[Guitarzan]

my spot turned up on the arm carve of the "strat" style yamaha pacifica. it is lighter in colour (almost cloudy) and and i am only assuming it is where i am cutting through the sealer coat. everything else is showing the wood and the grain except for that area. my body is several pieces and it would make no sense to veneer with several pieces. i am under the impression if i go a bit deeper i will be rewarded by raw wood.

after i removed the paint from the front i could see a certain thickness of clear sealer, except that spot on the arm carve.

[Guitarzan]

those knobs are probably going to need a little help coming off. put a flat "bar" under the knob and gently pry up, working around the base at different points. the push on fender style knobs can be a bugger. protect the body with a piece of plastic or thick carboard when prying.

don't take the silver caps off the knobs, they are only decoration.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Guitarzan:

those knobs are probably going to need a little help coming off.

You're not wrong They are stuck so badly that I assumed they had to have some sort of hidden screw

 

Putting a bit of cardboard on the wood before levering the knobs off soundes like a great idea.

[Bbach1]

Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

I'm getting confused over the different types of sanders. I'm after the one that looks like this

 

http://www.made-in-china.com/showimages/111/300021769/0/Power_Tools-Sander.jpg

 

if it takes stuff away, that's not a problem 'cause I'm using the sanding to get rid of a few dings and things.

Yea, that's simply a vibrating sander. I have three of those in different sizes. They are a lot less aggressive than a belt sander. I used my hand held belt sander for things like re-finishing my deck. I do use my father-in-law's table belt sander from time to time to quickly sand some very rough wood.

When you have taken the veneer completely off take a look at the grain of the wood underneath. Maybe it would look cool with a stain on it intead of paint.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Joe Bbach:

When you have taken the veneer completely off take a look at the grain of the wood underneath. Maybe it would look cool with a stain on it intead of paint.

It's definitely worth considering. I had decided on a colour simply because once the veneer goes, the wood is so lacklustre and plain. But yeah, I'm definitely open to staining.

[Chad Thorne]

KFIII, if it's not too late:

 

DO NOT USE A BELT SANDER.

 

DO NOT USE AN ORBITAL SANDER.

 

DO NOT USE A VIBRATING SANDER.

 

Take off all finish with a finish solvent like Stripeeze (make sure you have adequate ventilation!). You'll need to remove all harware, etc., to do this. Get a rubber sanding block and sand by hand. If you're not especially experienced with power tools you can get to a point of no return in a hurry, and you could spoil more veneer. Good luck!

[Scott Fraser]

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Might could be a Hagstrom.

 

Scott Fraser

[Big Red 67]

I sand by hand!

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Scott Fraser:

Might could be a Hagstrom.

**bangs head against wall, over and over and over**

 

 

Actually, I've been thinking about it and no... it's probably not a Hagstrom. *whew*

 

There's "MADE IN JAPAN" on the neck plate (ie "the bit where the screws hold the neck in place") and it has a Gibson type "open book" headstock.

 

Oddly enough, there were two screwholes in a diagonal 45° line on the headstock which makes it look as if the logo was screwed in, rather than painted.

 

I HOPE it wasn't a Hagstrom. I've always wanted one and if it turns out that I've owned one all along and taken such liberties with it, I'd never forgive myself!

[Scott Fraser]

<

There's "MADE IN JAPAN" on the neck plate>>

 

OK, I guess you're safe.

 

<>

 

That's OK. I won't tell even tell you what I did to a 56 Strat when I was 18, & there was no concept of vintage-ness in the guitar playing world.

 

Apparently the Hagstrom brand has been revived. Last I checked, a year or so ago, they had a line of guitars & a website. I don't recall the 8 string bass being in the lineup, though.

 

Scott Fraser

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Scott Fraser:

Apparently the Hagstrom brand has been revived. Last I checked, a year or so ago, they had a line of guitars & a website. I don't recall the 8 string bass being in the lineup, though.

Yeah, I think I've heard about that too. I nearly bought one of these once, when I woke up on a Saturday with a bad case of GAS

 

http://www.weirdvintageguitars.com/miscguitars/miscguit_images/miscguit_035_r1_c1.jpg

 

but the plastic that covers the neck was cracked and it would have flaked off in a matter of weeks. I brought home a Korean Dano instead.

[Trucks]

Any updates on how this is turning out Vince?

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by lee83:

Any updates on how this is turning out Vince?

I'm going to have a go at it tonight.

 

Monday, I had to be sociable with the guy that lent me the sander, which meant sinking a few pints. Onshly a couplashmallpinsh, shushtacoupla pinsh...

 

 

Yesterday, I had to do some overtime and by the time I got home, it was raining quite heavily and the balcony (where I was going to be sanding) was kinda wet and dismal.

 

I definitely want to have a go at it tonight.

[Trucks]

You ever thought about converting it back to its opriginal amount of strings?

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by lee83:

You ever thought about converting it back to its opriginal amount of strings?

Sometimes..! There's a clip of an 8 string sound on the Variax site and it sounds a real treat.

 

But I wish I could find an 8 stringer that I could try out before modifying a bass.

 

I mightn't even like the feel or I mightn't be strong enough, etc.

[Trucks]

Yeah I know what you mean, I'd love a 6 stringer but its not like I can pop into the local guitar store and say "point me toward the bass' with rediculous amounts of strings". All the stores are pretty small round here.

 

I know this is an age old debate but if i were to get a bass would you recommend a J or a P? Or even both...

[Scott Fraser]

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I haven't played bass since my high school rock band days in the 60's, but I recently got the Rogue clone of Sir Paul's Hofner. I gotta say it's a lovely fit for a guitarist, (i.e. those of us without gorilla paws,) & the finish is nothing short of amazing, at any price let alone the $200 Musicians Friend is charging. Quality of the flaming, body binding, everything really, is much higher than the Korean LP copies I've had recently. Not that I'd kick a Jazz or Precision out of the house, but the violin bass is sure a lot of fun. If you like that sound.

 

Scott Fraser