Way OT: more hail damage

[Bbach1]

You can argue all you want about global warming vs normal climatic changes, but there is no doubt that there are weather pattern changes going on. I'm 52 and have lived here in ND most of my life and man, the hail we get every summer is escallating. Our winters are warmer and our storms start earlier in the spring every year. More hail last night. My wife's Chevy Trailblazer got hit. Crap. Crap crap crap. I haven't inpected the roof or siding yet of our house. I'm so tired of repairing hail damage every summer.

I sold a fifth wheel camper to a fella from Mesa, AZ and he is on his way up to pick it up. I wonder if it got pounded last night. I'll have to go in to work today to have a look. We might have had it inside. God, I hope so. This poor man is driving all the way up here to pick it up and intends on camping in Montana for a while and now his camper may have gotten banged up. Bad news this hail stuff.

[Gifthorse]

I hear ya dude. I personally don't know much, but I do remember when I was a kid in Mich, getting WAY more snow than we get now. I remember getting feet of snow in the 70s. Now we don't get shit.

 

Like the Great Lakes for instance. My parents have a cottage on Lake Huron, and the lake has really changed drastically in the last 20 years. It went from having very high water levels 20 years ago, the water almost came up to the cliff where the cottage is. To having WAYYY too much beach.

 

I mean the water levels are so low now, it is alarming. We have like 100 yards of beach, or more. 20 years ago we had no beach. The lake looks like a pond, lots of algae and muck.. It wasn't like this before cuz it was way rougher, more water.

 

Now if you talk to some of the people who have lived there for 50 years, they will describe and show you pictures of it when the water was high, and when it was low. Seems to go in cycles.

 

Who knows, maybe the weather is like this too.

 

My cousin is a conspiracy guy. He thinks that the government controls the weather with planes that release chemical trails, and that there is some Ionosphere charger in Alaska that can be used to manipulate weather.

 

To me, that is just a bunch of horseshit, but I do wonder about all the chem trails in the sky that turn in to clouds. What the hell kind of planes are those? They aren't commercial jets, and they are always VERY high in the sky.

 

Anyways, if anyone knows lemme know.

[Bbach1]

All I know is that the last five years have been entirely different weather wise around here. Could just be cyclic or could be caused by mankind.

I just checked our roof and siding. No real damage. Our trees took a beating but must have kept the house safe enough.

Got a lot of debri to clean up today. So much for sittin on my a**.

[Ricochet]

I'm 50 years old. When I was a kid, I used to hear all the old timers talk about how much worse the weather used to be when they were young.

[EmptinesOf Youth]

ive always wondered about those chemtrails too...maybe some of our pilots here know something about them?

[Warthog]

Chemtrails?? Airplanes causing clouds?? I've flown for a while now...and have a pretty high clearance, and I have zero idea what you guys are talking about. Why would the government want to control the wx anyway? Silly, silly, silly...

[EmptinesOf Youth]

http://silver-wolves.com/articles/chemtrails/chemtrails-05.jpg

[Warthog]

If by "chemtrails" you mean "contrails", that is simple science. When you get an airplane high enough and in the right conditions, the heat build-up due to pressure changes on the wing and tail surfaces cause condensation to form, thus the contrails, or "clouds" behind some airplanes. All that is is 99.99999% water vapor, and .000001% jet exhaust. Heck, I fly a decidedly low-tech airplane and even I have made contrails before. It is science, not conspiracy.

 

For instance:

 

http://www.carnicom.com/abq1.jpg

 

Conspiracy theorists think this is very strange and that chemicals are released during these operations. Wow! I just learned that peopel actually believe this 30 seconds ago when I did a search for "What are contrails?" to find you guys a scientific definition, and came across a "chemtrails" conspiracy theory website. Amazing what some people believe! Anyhow, from the above photo, that can (and is) very easily caused by high-speed fighter jets during practice air to air combat. F-15's and F-16's do this all the time. I've seen contrails like that, and much worse, during large force employment exercises, where you have 8 jets vs 8 jets at high altitudes. It is very common, and like I said before, 99.9999% of that is simple water vapor. The rest is exhaust, like would come from your car when the engine is hot.

 

I hope this unclassified briefing on contrails puts this silly theory to rest. Some folks gots too much time on their hands coming-up with crap like this.

 

Contrails

[A String]

It has been shown that there was a slight difference in temperatures due to the Vapour Trails.

 

BBC Link

[Warthog]

I'm very leery about the above story. Did you know that less than 2% of all exhaust-caused air pollution is caused by aircraft engines? Did you know that flying your Cessna 172 across the U.S. releases less air pollution than running your lawn mower for an hour? And Cessna 172's have piston engines, jet engines burn much more eficiently and cleaner than piston engines. Go look out in the sky right now, do it again in an hour, do it every hour all day long, you might see one or two very small contrails in an entire day. Most days I don't see any. There are not enough to cause any change in the wx. There may have been a slight difference in temperature that day, but that is not a scientific experiment. You'de have to stop flying for many, many days and then run the data. I am positive that the 1 degree difference noticed on 11 Sep 01 is well within the standard deviation of temperature changes. You can't take one point, compare it to the rest, and then say "this is the truth". It'd be like if I surveyed you sleeping-in one Saturday to ten o'clock. I couldn't come out and say, "It has been shown that A String sleeps until 10 o'clock on Saturdays." I'd have to look at all the data over many weekends to come up with the average. Perhaps the average is 8:30 a.m., but I caught you at 10. Perhaps the standard deviation is 2 hours, so though 10 o'clock is within the standard deviation, so is 6:30 a.m.

 

My point is that that study is not science, you can't draw any conclusions from it other than the fact that it happened to be a cooler than average day on Sep 11 2001 worldwide.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Warthog:

I hope this unclassified briefing on contrails puts this silly theory to rest. Some folks gots too much time on their hands coming-up with crap like this.

 

Contrails

Yeah, but if I thought there was a conspiracy, that's PRECISELY what I would have expected you to say.

 

You sure you fly a warthog and not one of them tiny black helicopters?

 

http://zapatopi.net/blackhelicopters/

[A String]

Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

Originally posted by Warthog:

I hope this unclassified briefing on contrails puts this silly theory to rest. Some folks gots too much time on their hands coming-up with crap like this.

 

Contrails

Yeah, but if I thought there was a conspiracy, that's PRECISELY what I would have expected you to say.

 

You sure you fly a warthog and not one of them tiny black helicopters?

 

http://zapatopi.net/blackhelicopters/

That is the funniest thing I've ever read!

[A String]

Originally posted by Warthog:

I'm very leery about the above story. Did you know that less than 2% of all exhaust-caused air pollution is caused by aircraft engines? Did you know that flying your Cessna 172 across the U.S. releases less air pollution than running your lawn mower for an hour? And Cessna 172's have piston engines, jet engines burn much more eficiently and cleaner than piston engines. Go look out in the sky right now, do it again in an hour, do it every hour all day long, you might see one or two very small contrails in an entire day. Most days I don't see any. There are not enough to cause any change in the wx. There may have been a slight difference in temperature that day, but that is not a scientific experiment. You'de have to stop flying for many, many days and then run the data. I am positive that the 1 degree difference noticed on 11 Sep 01 is well within the standard deviation of temperature changes. You can't take one point, compare it to the rest, and then say "this is the truth". It'd be like if I surveyed you sleeping-in one Saturday to ten o'clock. I couldn't come out and say, "It has been shown that A String sleeps until 10 o'clock on Saturdays." I'd have to look at all the data over many weekends to come up with the average. Perhaps the average is 8:30 a.m., but I caught you at 10. Perhaps the standard deviation is 2 hours, so though 10 o'clock is within the standard deviation, so is 6:30 a.m.

 

My point is that that study is not science, you can't draw any conclusions from it other than the fact that it happened to be a cooler than average day on Sep 11 2001 worldwide.

I agree entirely. But, It is plausible that there is a slight variance in the temperature. The air is thinner up there.

 

(I won't even begin to quote any science in this area as I'm sure, being a pilot, your knowledge probably far exceeds mine.)

 

I think that pollution from factories, cars, power plants and any of the other myriad of environmental hazards, probably has more to do with it then the vapour trails...

[EmptinesOf Youth]

Originally posted by Warthog:

I'm very leery about the above story. Did you know that less than 2% of all exhaust-caused air pollution is caused by aircraft engines? Did you know that flying your Cessna 172 across the U.S. releases less air pollution than running your lawn mower for an hour? And Cessna 172's have piston engines, jet engines burn much more eficiently and cleaner than piston engines. Go look out in the sky right now, do it again in an hour, do it every hour all day long, you might see one or two very small contrails in an entire day. Most days I don't see any. There are not enough to cause any change in the wx. There may have been a slight difference in temperature that day, but that is not a scientific experiment. You'de have to stop flying for many, many days and then run the data. I am positive that the 1 degree difference noticed on 11 Sep 01 is well within the standard deviation of temperature changes. You can't take one point, compare it to the rest, and then say "this is the truth". It'd be like if I surveyed you sleeping-in one Saturday to ten o'clock. I couldn't come out and say, "It has been shown that A String sleeps until 10 o'clock on Saturdays." I'd have to look at all the data over many weekends to come up with the average. Perhaps the average is 8:30 a.m., but I caught you at 10. Perhaps the standard deviation is 2 hours, so though 10 o'clock is within the standard deviation, so is 6:30 a.m.

 

My point is that that study is not science, you can't draw any conclusions from it other than the fact that it happened to be a cooler than average day on Sep 11 2001 worldwide.

Well your the most trusted source i have on that so i guess i gotta believe you. It was always to my understanding that contrails do leave a line in the sky but it quickly desperses behind the plane and does not linger for hours...but i guess you gotta be right.

[Tone Taster]

Originally posted by EmptinessOFYouth:

It was always to my understanding that contrails do leave a line in the sky but it quickly desperses behind the plane and does not linger for hours...but i guess you gotta be right.

So how does 99% water vapor and 1% jet exhaust linger for hours and then slowly "trickle" down?

[Bbach1]

I sure don't know anything much about the direction of this thread. Conspiracies are beyond me. I just know that all my years in ND we only had hail storms once in a while. Now we get them every summer in abundance.

This is definately the place to be if you do roofing for a living. The contractors here are booked a couple years in advance. No shortage of work. Last summer I hired some Mexican lads to do my roof. I tried every contractor in the book and they were all too busy. I have no idea if the lads were legal or illegal. I just wanted my roof repaired. They did a nice job. One of them had an English speaking girlfriend so we were able to communicate well. They worked through a roofing contractor out of Minneapolis. I notice that company is no longer doing business in Bismarck. Oh well. Thumbs up to the lads that did my roof. Hard working blokes they were.

[BiC]

Now... 'bout that hail damage.

[BiC]

I bet you all didn't know that hail develops from contrails & chemtrails?

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Johann Sebastian Bbach:

I sure don't know anything much about the direction of this thread. Conspiracies are beyond me. I just know that all my years in ND we only had hail storms once in a while. Now we get them every summer in abundance.

Yeah, same here, kind of. Italian weather used to be really predictable, as recently as ten years ago, whereas these days it's anything but. It feels as if the seasons were shifting. Winter and Summer start and finish later than I remember.

[A String]

Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

Winter and Summer start and finish later than I remember.

Yeah, I've been saying that for the past few years now.

 

I can recall snow in October here as a kid, now we are lucky if we have snow at Christmas.

 

The catch is, you'd have to go back a lot of years to see if there was some sort of pattern that shows this as normal. Who knows, there could be a 50 year, weather cycle...

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by A String:

Who knows, there could be a 50 year, weather cycle...

Yes, of course.

 

On the other hand I find it hard to believe that we're pumping all that crap into the air, that we're running hundreds of millions of heat generating things 24/7 (fridges, air conditioning, cars, you name it), that we're tearing down the trees in order to lay down concrete and asphalt... in short, that we're doing our collective best to screw up the environment in every conceivable way and it's having no effect on the weather at all.

 

I find it very hard indeed to believe that everything we're noticing (desertification, melting glaciers and shifting seasons) is merely down to weather cycles. That CAN'T be right.

[Bbach1]

Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

Originally posted by A String:

Who knows, there could be a 50 year, weather cycle...

Yes, of course.

 

On the other hand I find it hard to believe that we're pumping all that crap into the air, that we're running hundreds of millions of heat generating things 24/7 (fridges, air conditioning, cars, you name it), that we're tearing down the trees in order to lay down concrete and asphalt... in short, that we're doing our collective best to screw up the environment in every conceivable way and it's having no effect on the weather at all.

 

I find it very hard indeed to believe that everything we're noticing (desertification, melting glaciers and shifting seasons) is merely down to weather cycles. That CAN'T be right.

I do believe as you do. I think we have a combination of climatic changes and man related enviromental damage. I used to shrug off global warming as a joke, but I don't anymore. I think the earth is getting saturated by us.

[A String]

I agree with both of you. I live right across the bay from this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/twocaraboos/pollution.jpg

We get a strange dust on everything that doesn't go away. It's like a paste...

 

I think things are going downhill and all of the natural disasters we've been seeing lately are just the start. It's sad really...

[Tone Taster]

Global Warming is theory that makes the UN and some tree-hugging NGO's think that they are important

 

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/moregw.htm

http://www.junkscience.com/news/robinson.htm

http://www.cornellreview.org/viewart.cgi?num=553

 

Anyway, i believe global warming will take place one day as appointed by God himself:

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

Now, that's as global warming as you can get right there !!

[A String]

Let's nix the religious stuff in here.

[BiC]

Originally posted by A String:

 

I think things are going downhill and all of the natural disasters we've been seeing lately are just the start. It's sad really...

I would add UNnatural disasters. There just doesn't seem to be anything natural about it.

 

Then again, we could simply be going through one of those climatic cycles. Who knows, 150 years from now folks could be talking about those record-breaking snowfalls and seasons without hurricanes.

 

Anyways, soon enough penguins may not have anything to "march" on.

[A String]

I figure, one way or another, the environment and mankind will adapt. If there's one thing I can say about nature is it adapts.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by yZeCounsel:

Global Warming is theory that makes the UN and some tree-hugging NGO's think that they are important

Do you? Well, just as long as you're happy, dear.