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Do I need new tuners?


Mike Gug

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Hey all! Hope all is well with everyone... during the week, I'm still lurking when I should be working.

 

So, it's the weekend, and here I am.

 

Here's my situation... When I tune my Squire Strat (original no-name tuners), I notice that some of the tuners change the pitch of the strings with very little twisting, and some it takes quite a bit more (very loosie-goosie feeling). Do tuners wear out? I think maybe I've been more concious of it because now I'm the only guitar player in the band, and I gotta nail riffs more accurately etc...(?)

 

Sometimes they surprise me by staying in tune, but other times, they just get a little tweaked out of tune.

 

PS, do locking tuners lock the strings while changing strings?

Mikegug

 

www.facebook.com/theresistancemusic

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I just have stock tuners. I got to tell you, they don't go out of tune. When I was playing six nights a week, I would change the strings every seventh day.

 

Now that I don't play out, my guitar gets played for about an hour or two a day and it will stay in tune for about a month. After that, the strings start to get stretched and go out of tune on there own.

 

You can buy locking tuners if they are in your budget. If not, just buy the nicest ones you can afford. I'm sure they will be fine.

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Have you tried taking the tuners apart and giving them a bit of a service? Bit of a clean, some white lithium grease and a tighten.. Did it to my oldest guitar that I struggled to keep in tune for ages, after doing that to them it tunes like a dream, stays in tune pretty much forever (slight tweak every now and again). It made such a difference I did it to all my other guitars too.

 

I dunno im just one of those people who'd prefer to fix something than replace it.

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I take it your tuners on the Squire Strat don't have the tension-adjuting screws...?

 

I know my Fender '52 Reissue Tele doesn't...though I'm not sure about other Fender/Squire offerings...?

But a good number of my other guitars do...and all it takes is a slight turn of that screw to either tighten or loosen the machine head action.

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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Yeah, Lee and Miroslav are right. :cool:

 

I doubt that the assemblers on the line that made the Squiers were all in a frenzy to get every last detail of set-up and adjustment perfectly nailed... :rolleyes:

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Originally posted by Caevan O'Shite:

Hey, Guggster! Giggety-giggety! >nchck!< :freak::rolleyes::D

I think I'm in love with the idea of locking tuners. "You had me at 'Giggety-giggety'" :love:

 

Currently, my posts do seem loose. If I take these "apart" like lee says, are tiny microscopic springs gonna come flying out, never to be seen again, or am I just taking them off the headstock to clean some dirt?

 

There are screws on the pegs. Will those make my posts tighter? Those will tighten something right? I mean, I'm sure turning those screws won't make UPN, Channel 58 come in more clearly on the rabbit-ears TV in the garage, right?

 

The posts that seem to have an attitude are the D- string and the B string (the A String is always good to me) - how could I resist that one?...

Mikegug

 

www.facebook.com/theresistancemusic

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Well, the one that I always get tangled-up with is the G-String... Giggety-ZAMM!! :thu::D

 

They'll just come off; you're talking about slim little hex-nuts on the face of the headstock, around the base of the posts, correct?

 

Carefully snugging them down is a good idea, but don't overdo it. After any disassembly and cleaning, reassemble them with a tiny smidgeon of Loc-Tite thread-locker (so little that it won't squeeze any out when you tighten down the hardware) on one of each pair of mating threaded-surfaces.

 

Restringing and tuning-up is a lot quicker and simpler with locking-tuners, and the six-inline Sperzels for Fender-style headstocks also have staggered-height posts, improving string-tension at the breaking-angle over the nut and often eliminating the need for those "string-tree" retainers.

 

You may have to have the existing holes reamed for the Sperzels if they're too small for 'em, or even need bushings if they're too big. You may also need additional holes drilled, as well.

 

A nice side benefit of the Sperzels is that they're very light in weight, making your Fender-style axe a li'l bit mo' vintage-y and perhaps improving the overall balance. (Lighter mass at headstock = woodier sound, heavier mass at headstock = more over all sustain and steelier tone. Other factors apply; YMMV... )

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Originally posted by Mike Gug:

There are screws on the pegs. Will those make my posts tighter? Those will tighten something right?

If they are the screws on the square bits you put your fingers on while tuning the guitar, they won't make the strings stay in tune any better, I think they're there so you can change the number of turns required. Or so I've been led to believe. I've never needed to muck around with them.
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Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

Originally posted by Mike Gug:

There are screws on the pegs. Will those make my posts tighter? Those will tighten something right?

If they are the screws on the square bits you put your fingers on while tuning the guitar, they won't make the strings stay in tune any better, I think they're there so you can change the number of turns required. Or so I've been led to believe. I've never needed to muck around with them.
The little screws on some tuner-buttons are there to hold the button on, nothing more. If you tighten them up nice and snug, the tuner will kinda feel tighter when you turn the knob, but i's just the knob. And, of course, if they're loosened, they'll feel looser and squidgier as you turn 'em, but again, it's the knob, not the rest of the tuner.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

Originally posted by Caevan O'Shite:

If you tighten them up nice and snug, the tuner will kinda feel tighter when you turn the knob, but i's just the knob.

Errr.... what's the point of that? :confused::eek:
Yeah, I was about to ask the same thing. I thought they might tighten the post.

 

When I have the string off, some are loose. The post is not firm at all. (OK, let's have the jokes). :P

Mikegug

 

www.facebook.com/theresistancemusic

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You can also try SIT strings, they use a special adhesive to keep the strings from stretching. I heard they work wonders for tuning stability. However, if something on your instrument causes slippage (and that seems to be the case if you're describing the tuning knobs becomming 'worn out') there's little these strings can do. But it might be worth a try to help out just a little.

-Andy

 

 

"I know we all can't stay here forever so I want to write my words on the face of today...and they'll paint it"

 

-Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon)

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Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

Originally posted by Caevan O'Shite:

If you tighten them up nice and snug, the tuner will kinda feel tighter when you turn the knob, but i's just the knob. [/qb]

Errr.... what's the point of that? :confused::eek:
Maybe on some it does nothing more than hold the button on...

...but usually, for the ones with the screw, it's there so you can adjust the feel of the tuner.

 

If you make it tight...then even the smallest touch will initiate a good amount of turn(tuning)...or if you loosen it, then you get more of a "micro tune" feel.

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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...and if you take it off completely, it is obvious that it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the actual workings and performace of the tuner, other than holding the tuner-button on there.

 

Any perceived change in "feel" is directly due to the button's being loose or (as it should be) tight. If it's loose, the button turns before and after the tuner actually turns, any perceived ""micro tune" feel" is just slop and play; if it's tight, it more efficiently, directly turns the tuner as you turn the button, without play or backlash.

 

Again, to prove the point, you can completely remove the button and use a small wrench or pliers or vice-grip, etc., to turn the tuner and tune the string. That little screw just secures the button.

 

The tuner's turns-ratio is permanently pre-determined and set by the design of the worm-gear and cog mechanism inside; it doesn't change, the only other factor that changes that equasion at all would be the combined effect of the gauge and material of the given string, the scale-length, and the desired pitch tuned to. Then the turns-ration doesn't change, but its proportionate effect on the amount of pitch increase/decrease per turn does.

 

Originally posted by Mike Gug:

"When I have the string off, some are loose. The post is not firm at all."

Hmmmnn, if it's not the hex-nut (if there is one) on the face of the headstock that secures the tuner (and maybe any small screws on the back of the headstock), then I'd suspect either sloppily-bored holes through the headstock for the tuner, or just plain sloppy quality and consistancy in the tuners themselves; or both.

 

A while back, but not too long ago, someone was posting about discovering some really heinously bad crappy workmanship in their guitar's headstock/tuner-installation department, including grossly sloppy over-sized and mis-shapen holes and copious amounts of some kind of bondo-like wood-putty filler...

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Originally posted by Caevan O'Shite:

...it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the actual workings and performace of the tuner, other than holding the tuner-button on there.

 

Any perceived change in "feel" is directly due to the button's being loose or (as it should be) tight. If it's loose, the button turns before and after the tuner actually turns, any perceived ""micro tune" feel" is just slop and play; if it's tight, it more efficiently, directly turns the tuner as you turn the button, without play or backlash.

While I agree that the gear ratio is a set thing, and doesn't chage...

...I disagree that you should have the button screwed on as tight as it can go, in all cases...

...and that the only purpose of the screw is to hold the button in place.

 

What you call "slop" is just another way to define the turning action of the button.

When it's very tight, even the slightest nudge, will instantly initiate turning of the gear...when you loosen it a bit, you take out some of the agressiveness/attack from the turning action.

 

That screw is there to adjust the turning tension.

 

And here's a quote right from the Grover description:

"Countersunk tension screw permits players to regulate turning tension to any degree."

 

You can read it all here, just look at the Grover Rotomatic 102 description:

 

Grover Rotomatics

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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Right Miro, the action tensioning of the gear is called "LASH", it is the difference in the pitch of the gear being more sensitive or less sensitive to lateral forces depending on WHERE the gear is started from in it's position on the taper of the gear. As the gear is put under tension or loosned the ratio of the ring to the pinion essentially changes the ratio or efforts.
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Originally posted by miroslav:

"While I agree that the gear ratio is a set thing, and doesn't chage...

...I disagree that you should have the button screwed on as tight as it can go, in all cases...

...and that the only purpose of the screw is to hold the button in place.

 

What you call "slop" is just another way to define the turning action of the button.

When it's very tight, even the slightest nudge, will instantly initiate turning of the gear...when you loosen it a bit, you take out some of the agressiveness/attack from the turning action.

 

That screw is there to adjust the turning tension.

 

And here's a quote right from the Grover description:

"Countersunk tension screw permits players to regulate turning tension to any degree."

 

You can read it all here, just look at the Grover Rotomatic 102 description:

 

Grover Rotomatics "

Well, then, I stand corrected!

 

Good points; it was just my personal experience, with the tuners that I've used (and their respective buttons, at least those that had screws in them at all), that they worked best when snugged right up. However, I can now see that this is not necesarily always the case then, huh! :cool:

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Originally posted by Caevan O'Shite:

... with the tuners that I've used (and their respective buttons, at least those that had screws in them at all), that they worked best when snugged right up. However, I can now see that this is not necesarily always the case then, huh! :cool:

Yeah...I don't like 'em real tight...especially when I'm tuning for studio recording purposes.

When they're real tight, they tend to snap/jump a bit in order for you to break the turning tension to get them going...and when you are trying to fine-tune...that's often too much turn.

 

That's what I meant by being able to "micro-tune" when they are just a bit loose...as then you can kinda' s-l-i-d-e into the turn. :thu:

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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Hey, y'know what?

 

I used to slip a peg-winder, a big plastic one (those crank-handle lookin' gizmos for speedier stringing), onto the tuner-buttons of my steel-string flat-top acoustic to effectively have a bigger 'knob' to turn when fine-tuning, actually increasing the turns-ratio that way; it worked quite well! I wasn't using the crank-handle part, just gripping the socket part that slips over the button...

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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