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A question about some questions


LPCustom

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As some of you know I build cabinets as a sideline. Most of them are for kitchens, bathrooms, etc. But I also build some Hi-Fi speaker cabinets as well as guitar/bass cabinets.

 

I would like to post a series of questions to find out what types of cabinets and configurations are considered the most desirable and why among the members here.

 

My question is where I should post questions like those or if I should just PM them. This is marketing information for me since I'm thinking of expanding my guitar/bass cabinet work to a commercial level and probably going full time with it. Consequently it would probably be considered SPAM. :eek:

 

What I'm probably going to do is put up a link with the questions as a web form so that it can be emailed to me rather than have those things posted here (and eat up a lot of bandwidth). I also may post my findings once the query period is done.

 

I'd like to know my fellow forumites thoughts on this beforehand so there won't be any ruffled feathers over it. :rolleyes:

 

I guess I could also post them as a series of surveys but getting feedback about why people have certain preferences is valuable information.

 

Cheers all! :D

Born on the Bayou

 

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I think that you could just ask on an open forum. You might be intending upon creating a product from the research, but that is way different from the one time poster who drops a spam ad on us then dissappears.

 

I think that we have supported the guys with side businesses here... and for one, I'm happy to do it. For years Ethan Winer talked about sound control on another forum to which we were both members before he started "Real Traps". Nobody thinks that Ethan was spamming anyone.

 

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Well, it wouldn't ruffle my feathers. Actually, I don't have feathers. I have fur. It could rub my fur the wrong way, I guess, but probably not. Come to think of it that feels pretty good anyway and usually gets my foot moving uncontrollably. There are some feathers on the floor, but they didn't come from me. They came from that chicken I ate for lunch.

 

What was the question? Oh, yeah...cabinets. Why don't you just put a link in your signature?

 

By the way, do you sell those Antioch Hand Grenades? I could use a couple...

"And so I definitely, when I have a daughter, I have a lot of good advice for her."

~Paris Hilton

 

BWAAAHAAAHAAHAAA!!!

 

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As far as I am concerned, LP can post whatever he wants, where ever he wants.

 

I like cabinets covered in black vinyl or leather. And a nice neutral fabric for the grill. Purely a matter of aesthetics.

 

For sound. I prefer and open back with 2-12's. I like to have lots of air moving in the front and back.

 

Nice sturdy plywood works for me.

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yea man post it in a thread its cool with me, and what i say goes.

 

but as for cabinets, i would looooovvvveee to have my peavey classic put into a nice hardwood (pine or maple) cabinet, with some nice dovetails showin at the corners. man that would totally rock.

http://66.116.187.161/images/p112c.jpg

 

http://66.116.187.161/images/112cfront150.jpg

similar to those....

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Originally posted by Sasquatch51:

Well, it wouldn't ruffle my feathers. Actually, I don't have feathers. I have fur. It could rub my fur the wrong way, I guess, but probably not. Come to think of it that feels pretty good anyway and usually gets my foot moving uncontrollably. There are some feathers on the floor, but they didn't come from me. They came from that chicken I ate for lunch.

 

What was the question? Oh, yeah...cabinets. Why don't you just put a link in your signature?

 

By the way, do you sell those Antioch Hand Grenades? I could use a couple...

(Coughing and gagging with laughter!) :D:D:D
Never a DUH! moment! Well, almost never. OK, OK! Sometimes never!
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Just to follow up on this a little bit, I don't need any more speaker cabinets, but I DO need a sound isolation cabinet to hold my computer tower in my new music room.

 

The cheapest that I see these things are about $575 plus shipping. I know a bit about cabinet construction, and I think that is a bit much. (Seeing as you probably get two or more out of a single 4x8 piece of sheet goods).

 

Most of the ones that I see are made out of hardwood plywood, but I believe that a better material might be MDF with it's lower resonant frequency, covered with that cheap black ratfur carpet, and and internal space that is lined with acoustilead (or a lead loaded vinyl barrier product), then a layer of 1 inch 705 or mineral wool.

 

Anyway, a reasonable product could probably be constructed and sold for closer to $300 (of course, doing them as one offs makes them more expensive...)

 

Are you using MDF for your face frames?

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Originally posted by Bill@Welcome Home Studios:

Just to follow up on this a little bit, I don't need any more speaker cabinets, but I DO need a sound isolation cabinet to hold my computer tower in my new music room.

 

The cheapest that I see these things are about $575 plus shipping. I know a bit about cabinet construction, and I think that is a bit much. (Seeing as you probably get two or more out of a single 4x8 piece of sheet goods).

 

Most of the ones that I see are made out of hardwood plywood, but I believe that a better material might be MDF with it's lower resonant frequency, covered with that cheap black ratfur carpet, and and internal space that is lined with acoustilead (or a lead loaded vinyl barrier product), then a layer of 1 inch 705 or mineral wool.

 

Anyway, a reasonable product could probably be constructed and sold for closer to $300 (of course, doing them as one offs makes them more expensive...)

 

Are you using MDF for your face frames?

 

Bill

That sounds interesting, Bill. I have been thinking of trying my hand at isolation cabinets as well as recording boxes.

 

I have used hardwood, plywood, particle board and MDF as face frames and speaker baffles. I find that the hardwood and plywood seem to be better for holding screws (I don't use nails or brads) but I use T nuts for attaching the speakers so all of those work well for speaker baffles. I only use plywood or hardwood for cabinet faceframes and I use mostly MDF for speaker baffles, now.

 

The big problem with trying to enclose a PC is heat. They generate lots of heat and that requires ventilation to keep it cool. You can usually go with quiet built PCs cheaper than you can enclose one and you don't run into cooling problems. Water cooling is the sound technicians friend. They are nearly silent. They make enclosures for hard drives, now, that make them almost completely silent, too.

 

I'll check out what it would cost to build a sound isolation cabinet. What dimensions are you talking about? Typical full tower or mid tower PC? Those can vary wildly in width (from 6 to 13 inches) and depth (from 18 to 30 inches).

 

You are correct that one offs are more expensive (sometimes twice as much) partly because of the cost of materials and partly because of the learning curve that results in time and material waste as well as the time required to create a new design and draw the plans.

Born on the Bayou

 

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MDF is great for face frames if you have a doweling machine and use dowels and carpenters glue to assemble them. Then screws are not an issue. Much like a biscuit, but far stronger for fastening such joints.

 

But the face frame/side panel method of assembly would be the fastest, least labor intensive method of production (rather than working with dovetail jigs, etc.) Making a face and back frame, routing them to accept side/top/bottom panels, loads of glue and staples in the sides, and the basic construction is done.

 

Yes, heat is an issue that needs to be addressed. Most of the iso boxes that I have seen have at MOST a simple physical baffle (sound has trouble making 90 degree corners... pad a couple of turns and you can lower the noise significantly), and a couple of whisper fans.

 

No it is not better to build a quiet computer. I have done that, to the extreme. Two things.. first, no metal enclosure isolates like a real freestanding isolation enclosure. Second, you need to be able to replace your computer. Make the box, buy the cheap computer enclosure, and be done with it.

 

I could give you dimensions later, but as you know, this is not going to affect cost in any significant way. The keys, I think, to making them and making them affordable and effective would be to use the materials I mentioned above (MDF has a lower resonant frequency than plywood) skip the fancy glass doors for a simple matching piece of carpet wrapped MDF (do you REALLY gotta be able to see the PC?) and put it on soft rubber wheels (as additional isolation from direct transmission via the floor.)

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Originally posted by Bill@Welcome Home Studios:

MDF is great for face frames if you have a doweling machine and use dowels and carpenters glue to assemble them. Then screws are not an issue. Much like a biscuit, but far stronger for fastening such joints.

 

Bill

But MDF is not good for screwing on cabinet door hinges. Plywood and hardwood are much better for that. MDF is great for drawer fronts (and bodies) if it is going to be painted. If the face frame is going to be stained, though you need either cabinet grade plywood or solid wood. (most of my cabinets get stained)

 

I use a biscuit joiner for the most part just because it's quicker than using a doweler and you don't have to be quite as precise with hole registration. Doweling is indeed stronger (I used dowels for the custom cabinets and bookcases in our own house and those are solid white oak). It's usually just not worth the extra expense and effort IMHO, though.

 

With the screws, I was talking about speaker cabinets, not built-in cabinets. The only place I use metal fasteners in my built-in cabinets is in the drawer assemblies, the door hinges and other hardware. I only use screws in the speaker cabinets for things that are removable (i.e. speaker baffles, back of the cabinet, etc.)

 

I have a couple of "quiet" PCs at home. But I always build my own PCs and I take the water cooling gear from one generation to the next. I'm relatively certain you couldn't hear the PC I'm typing this on (unless the CD/DVD drives are running). But I'm not going to argue that. I agree that an isolation box is the best way to do it. I just found that building a quiet PC was good enough for my purposes.

 

As far as the cooling baffles in the box are concerned it's probably the best way to do the cooling. Once you add fans you introduce more primary and secondary noises. Not to mention a way to power them (a power supply). That's added expense, too. Passive (convection) is probably good enough as long as the baffle is large enough. If you include connectors inside and outside the box for all the I/O, that's another expense. Those can probably be made much more economically than buying them if you're handy with a soldering iron (and I am). I'll look into those issues.

 

It needs a door to not only allow the PC to be put inside and all the connections made, but also to allow for changing removable media. A large rear door and a smaller front door is probably the way to go, there.

 

Some of the sound absorbing materials can be pretty expensive. Do you know of or recommend any specific source? I know of a few places to get those materials but I'm always open to suggestion. I haven't done much with those types of materials, before.

 

[EDIT] Another thought, MDF would be fine for the exterior if I used bolts rather than screws for attaching parts to the MDF. That way I don't have to worry about the somewhat crumbly nature of MDF.

Born on the Bayou

 

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Oh, yeah- post away on the forum at large.

 

It's not completely self-serving; others can probably benefit, at the very least finding some interesting reading, and maybe some useful info and inspiration.

 

I like reading anything like that, concerning design and materials and building and all that...

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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" MDF would be fine for the exterior if I used bolts rather than screws for attaching parts to the MDF. "

 

Trust me on this, glue and air staples or brads are fine, if the face frame is routed to leave a lip of the top/sides/bottom to rest upon, because the carpet really holds it all together anyway.

 

"Do you know of or recommend any specific source? "

 

If you buy the stuff from speaker parts manufacturers, it is very expensive. If you buy it from insulation contractors and such, it is still not cheap, but it is very much more affordable. The lead loaded vinyl sheets sold in small pieces by speaker parts companies like parts express cost a few bucks each. But Kenedy Barrier or any of the similar products used in the construction industry cost a few bucks a yard (by whatever their standard sheet size is, which varies from 36 inches to 54 inches.) and is much more effective because it is at least twice as thick. You could buy cheap acoustical foam from Markertex in 54x54 inch sheets for $20 a sheet, or you could buy the more effective Owens Corning 705, with better performance, in 2x4 sheets for a little more, or rock wool, in 2x4 sheets, for a little less.

 

"It needs a door to not only allow the PC to be put inside and all the connections made, but also to allow for changing removable media. A large rear door and a smaller front door is probably the way to go, there."

 

Opposite. Front door big enough to slide the entire PC in or out. Use MDF, hinges with bolts, and a good catch to keep the door tight to the box. Really, look at any of the sites that sell these things, they've been making them for years and it is simpler than you are suspecting. There is no panel for connectiosn, just a hole. (yes, it is like a baffle.) But the back is basically solid, except for the access to the air cooling and cables.

 

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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So...are you gonna stop BS-ing...and give us some samples of your guitar cab work?! ;)

 

I have a pair of nice condition speakers that came out of a Hammond L100 organ.

Since I own a Hammond L100...I originally bought them as a spare set...but I doubt mine are gonna blow anytime soon...so I figured the spare set might make a nice 212 guitar cabinet.

 

I can probably build a pretty decent...but rather basic/plain "box" out of plywood, myself...

...but for someone that has the carpenters "touch", like you probably do...

I'm sure you can do a bit better than a basic "box"! :thu:

 

Not looking for anything really "boutique"...no exotic woods...

...just a nice closed-back 212 that can hold a pair of 12" speakers...but keeping it as small as possible.

A nice plywood with a basic maple or cherry finish...

...or maybe a step up to a solid maple.

Dove-tail joints would be cool...but even basic joints with nice corners and caps...and a decent handle...that's all I'm looking for.

Oh...and an oxblood grill cloth.

 

So...wadda you got going...?

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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Originally posted by Bill@Welcome Home Studios:

Really, look at any of the sites that sell these things, they've been making them for years and it is simpler than you are suspecting. There is no panel for connectiosn, just a hole. (yes, it is like a baffle.) But the back is basically solid, except for the access to the air cooling and cables.

 

 

Bill

Well, you know how we engineers like to over engineer everything to show how clever we are... ;):D

Born on the Bayou

 

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Originally posted by LPCustom:

Well, you know how we engineers like to over engineer everything to show how clever we are... ;):D
I do... but costs and labor are always a factor.(!!)

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Originally posted by LPCustom:

Originally posted by Sasquatch51:

By the way, do you sell those Antioch Hand Grenades? I could use a couple...

As far as I know there is only one of those in the entire world and Michael Palin has it... ;)
Dang. Who's Michael Palin? Do you think I could beat him up and take it?

"And so I definitely, when I have a daughter, I have a lot of good advice for her."

~Paris Hilton

 

BWAAAHAAAHAAHAAA!!!

 

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1474 posts???? I don't think YOU need to worry about being accused of spam! I think the ones that get people riled are newbies posting spam.

 

As far as cabinet input, I'm running a stock Blues Junior and think it sounds heavenly, but I have nothing to compare to......so I'll just keep on with my ignorant bliss! ;)

www.myspace.com/darcyhoover
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Mr Barnard: Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!

 

Sasquatch51: What?

 

Mr Barnard: Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!

 

Sasquatch51: Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!

 

Mr Barnard: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.

 

Sasquatch51: Oh, I see, well, that explains it.

 

Mr Barnard: Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.

 

Sasquatch51: Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Originally posted by Bill@Welcome Home Studios:

Mr Barnard: Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!

 

Sasquatch51: What?

 

Mr Barnard: Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!

 

Sasquatch51: Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!

 

Mr Barnard: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.

 

Sasquatch51: Oh, I see, well, that explains it.

 

Mr Barnard: Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.

 

Sasquatch51: Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.

:D:D:D THAT was funny! :thu:

"And so I definitely, when I have a daughter, I have a lot of good advice for her."

~Paris Hilton

 

BWAAAHAAAHAAHAAA!!!

 

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Something I thought was cool was when i was reading about Aerosmith and saw that Perry Had a Wizard Head going through a 4-12 and another fender typw amp on tap like a Vibrolux or something w/ 2 10"s

 

It wasn't but a few years later i saw the "Joe Perry" cab by gibson which was a closed cabinet of 2 12's w/ the upper being open backed 2- 10's

 

That just seems to make alot of sense

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