ANYONE ELSE NOTICE ALL THE PRICE FIXING GOING ON?

[PriceFixing]

Price fixing in the music industry is becoming more prevalent. If you do price searches for a Digitech GNX3000 you used to be able to find a wide range of prices being offered by many different retail, online, and guitar stores. Today the situation is very different. Everyone is only allowed to advertise a single price of $399.99 for a brand new unit. Many major sellers such as zZounds.com, www.americanmusical.com, www.samedaymusic.com, www.sweetwater.com, www.music123.com, www.8thstreet.com, www.samash.com, www.MusiciansFriend.com, and even Guitar Center stores all advertise that they will beat anyones advertised price. Have you noticed that once you tell them about it the other place changes their prices back so they "fall in line" with all the others. I had this experience with Guitar Center and zZounds.com. I asked both if they would match a lower priced advertisement. They said yes and very soon after the price was "brought back in line" with all the over "advertised prices." This pricing policy has even reached the retailers selling on eBay. The lower priced units there are "repackaged" units. All new GNX3000's are advertised as $399.95. This price fixing policy is spreading to other music industry products such as Fender Amplifiers. Anyone notice that every new Fender Twin Reverb is exactly $1049.95? This didn't used to be the case and there is a name for it, PRICE FIXING. A competitor to the GNX3000 is the Line 6 PODxt Live which is price fixed now at $399.99 by all these same companies. We all need to spread the word and take action!

 

I for one have had it. Price fixing is illegal and there are antitrust laws to protect us all. Free enterprise rules in this country and price fixing works against this principle. If you feel like I do then do something about it. Read the following link and send your complaint, like I did, to the U.S. Department of Justice at the email address below. The more people are willing to share their price fixing history with them the better off we'll all be.

 

www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/pfbrprimer.pdf

newcase.atr@usdoj.gov

[Tone Taster]

Definitely "sound" idea.

 

Start smackin' those suckers down in court and make 'em pay instead of "writing your congressman" or holding your nose in the ballot box every four years.

 

In order for me to complain, I would have to verify this for myself in my own purchasing pursuits in order to support this position intelligently

[AeroG33k]

As far as I know price fixing, in the United States, is only illegal if there are clear communicated agreements between retailers. However, if they respond to competitors prices willingly and independently, which might very well be the case here, there's nothing wrong with that. You'll find additional discounts every once in a while from your local independent dealership, but not so much as the larger chain or online dealers. Because of their nature and how quickly and widely information travels it makes more sense to them to charge the maximum price possible while remaining competitive (in-line) with the others. Such retailers might rather rely on the loyalty and advertizement principles than the friendly & cheap neighborhood music dealer. Bottom line is, it woul d be very hard to prove that there are organized formulated agreements between the companies.

[BluesWithoutBlame]

Originally posted by PriceFixing:

Price fixing in the music industry is becoming more prevalent. If you do price searches for a Digitech GNX3000 you used to be able to find a wide range of prices being offered by many different retail, online, and guitar stores. Today the situation is very different. Everyone is only allowed to advertise a single price of $399.99 for a brand new unit. Many major sellers such as zZounds.com, www.americanmusical.com, www.samedaymusic.com, www.sweetwater.com, www.music123.com, www.8thstreet.com, www.samash.com, www.MusiciansFriend.com, and even Guitar Center stores all advertise that they will beat anyones advertised price. Have you noticed that once you tell them about it the other place changes their prices back so they "fall in line" with all the others. I had this experience with Guitar Center and zZounds.com. I asked both if they would match a lower priced advertisement. They said yes and very soon after the price was "brought back in line" with all the over "advertised prices." This pricing policy has even reached the retailers selling on eBay. The lower priced units there are "repackaged" units. All new GNX3000's are advertised as $399.95. This price fixing policy is spreading to other music industry products such as Fender Amplifiers. Anyone notice that every new Fender Twin Reverb is exactly $1049.95? This didn't used to be the case and there is a name for it, PRICE FIXING. A competitor to the GNX3000 is the Line 6 PODxt Live which is price fixed now at $399.99 by all these same companies. We all need to spread the word and take action!

 

I for one have had it. Price fixing is illegal and there are antitrust laws to protect us all. Free enterprise rules in this country and price fixing works against this principle. If you feel like I do then do something about it. Read the following link and send your complaint, like I did, to the U.S. Department of Justice at the email address below. The more people are willing to share their price fixing history with them the better off we'll all be.

 

www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/pfbrprimer.pdf

newcase.atr@usdoj.gov

There's another thing that might be happening because of the internet. Used to be we haggled. I used to go into music stores (well...still do when I buy from the stores) and ask "what kind of price can you give me?" or "How about 349 bucks for that and that?" and at least get something thrown in, OR a better price. Even in the 70's the music instrument manufacturers were taking way over 100% markup, unheard of at the time.

 

But now with the internet, you really can't haggle. We go there usually because of better prices anyway so maybe not such a big deal, but we kind of get conditioned also...

 

And of course, we are suckers for pedals. If it is a good pedal, we can't exactly haggle if there is a waiting list to get it, but that is simple supply/demand at work.

[The Geoff]

On the other hand, there's a bottom value below which selling an item is uneconomocal.

 

If a pedal is *really* worth $20.00, say and you need to sell it at $30.00 to cover your overheads, then you're not going to put yourself out of business, are you?

 

And if everyone else's costs are similar, then the price of that pedal is going to settle round about the same everywhere you look.

 

Just being Devil's Advocate here!!!

 

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/1.gif

 

Geoff

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Geoff B.:

And if everyone else's costs are similar, then the price of that pedal is going to settle round about the same everywhere you look.

Precisely. Before I put stuff on eBay, I always look to see what other people are charging for the same item. I suppose shops do the same thing.

[BluesWithoutBlame]

Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

Originally posted by Geoff B.:

And if everyone else's costs are similar, then the price of that pedal is going to settle round about the same everywhere you look.

Precisely. Before I put stuff on eBay, I always look to see what other people are charging for the same item. I suppose shops do the same thing.

I think that is oversimplified. If you had LOTS of stuff, the same stuff, and wanted to move it to buy better stuff...you would't probably price your stuff above or even AT the same price as all the others...if you want to move it, and know if you sell lots of them you still make good money, you'd put the price a little lower than the going rate.

 

That's what the original point was I think, that no one is "breaking ranks" trying to get customers.

 

Relatively new other developments...in the OLD days, you could cop a good deal by waiting til the newer models came out. Now with electronics, and presumably more Just In Time type manufacture and stocking, when the new model comes, you just can't buy the old ones anymore except used.

 

It's just how the world is changing.

 

But price fixing (I think) is illegal. I don't pretend to understand it all, but I know that "professional shoppers" were also either illegal, or else unethical. Department stores hired folks on the sly to go an spy on the competition, see what they were pricing things at.

 

I think it was illegal, but am not sure.

On the other hand, you have items (well..oil for one) that seem to be price fixed, also where a company demands that you sell their items at a certain price.

 

I think it is more up-in-the-air these days, but have to admit I don't know how this all worked before either.

[A String]

Yup, I think these companies surf around to see what the lowest price is, then try to match or beat it. (Usually matching is just fine.) I think I wouldn't call it "Price Fixing" so much as "Price Matching".

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by BluesWithoutBlame:

I think that is oversimplified. If you had LOTS of stuff, the same stuff, and wanted to move it to buy better stuff...you would't probably price your stuff above or even AT the same price as all the others...if you want to move it, and know if you sell lots of them you still make good money, you'd put the price a little lower than the going rate.

Yeah, but the price wouldn't be THAT different because all the shops have to incorporate the manufacturer's price into their own, and the manufacturer's price is standard.

 

Actually, it's a shame that you can't haggle online. It wouldn't take much, really.

 

The database could have a baseline price for each item, under which the site would refuse to sell. After that you would have a random() function that would decide if you got a discount and how big a discount you'd get.

[A String]

Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

a random() function

You can always tell a programmer. Your brackets give you away.

[picker]

Price fixing? Awright, which one of youse guys broke the prices? Doncha you how much it costs to fix those things? Geez louise!

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Let us say that in the course of business, you determine that in order to stay afloat and pay all of the expenses you have in running your business, you have to get a 10% bump over the cost of goods, and you sell a $9 item for roughly $10.

 

I'm down the street. Wouldn't my expenses be about the same as yours? So wouldn't my pricing pretty much match yours?

 

That is one site of the coin.

 

Another side...

 

The biggest chain store with the lowest profit margins sets a price for a device. Win, lose, or draw, if I'm going to sell the same product, I have to at least match their price.

 

another side...

 

I see that the same chain is selling a product that I know costs ten cents, for $10. I gleefully raise my price to $10, too. Free money.

 

No fixing or conspiracy involved. Just the market doing what markets do.

 

In fact, we have taken all the 'life' out of markets and shaved profits to the bare minimum. I take it that you are bitching because you want the device to be cheaper somewhere. I suggest to you that there is nto a significant savings to be had, as the large profit for retailers does not exist anymore.

 

There are still some dealer chains and manufacturers who are capable of saying to a dealer, "You will not sell my product for less than.... and you will not advertise it for less than..." but that power is only in the hands of some very small but desirable product runs, not mass market items such as the Digitech product line. The best deal thaat I have found on things like this is that some stores offer free shipping, some don't. Obviously, it costs to ship something. So there is your discount.

 

Bill

[miroslav]

I dunno'...I'm a bit frugal, so I always shop around for everything...especially music gear, since I already know fairly well how much most of it is selling for...and I know when Im getting a deal.

 

And IALWAYS...find different prices at different outlets...and eventually I find one that truly beats out all the others!

 

And YES...I check out most of the same stores listed above in the first post...and NO they do NOT all sell all their same items for the same price.

There may be certain items that just happen to have a "set" price industry-wide...but I often find a "sale" price even for those items that will occasionally pop up for a short time...

so that's when I make my buy.

 

Oh...and I NEVER...EVER...call a music store to tell them about some other store's lower pricejust to try and get them to beat it!

That's pretty dumb!

I just buy the item at the store that has it for the lowest price! DUH!

And I walk away smiling...(with my mouth shutwell, after I buy it, I'll tell others about it).

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by miroslav:

...and I NEVER...EVER...call a music store to tell them about some other store's lower pricejust to try and get them to beat it!

That's pretty dumb!

I just buy the item at the store that has it for the lowest price! DUH!

Me too. Just seens like the right thing to do.

 

Bill

[CraigT]

I've noticed this as I looked to buy a keyboard. Do a Froogle on, for example, a Roland keyboard and it is exactly the same advertised price everywhere. I think there's MSRP and then there's some price below that that the manufacturer dictates it be advertised at or at least not below. It seems kind of BS but with Froogle and other search tools they knows you can find the lowest price so they don't compete on advertised price. I got a keyboard for significantly less at Guitar Center than the lowest internet price. I suspect if you actually called Sweetwater or Musician's Friend and asked them for a quote they'd give you a price below the advertised internet price.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Hmmmmnnnn...

 

If you put at least a little effort into it, "you get what you pay for" holds true.

 

Instead of sweating small-potatoes price differences and doing so much buying on-line, how about getting excellent, readily available SERVICE AND SUPPORT from the better of the "mom & pop" shops out there in towns big and small?

 

I'm certainly not against internet transactions, but you should figure out what you want, and where best to get it.

 

Sometimes you can only find a given item in certain places, or there may be other factors, such as shipping and currency exchange-rates and varying voltage requirements. Of course, then an internet business could be a very good option, maybe your only one.

 

If I want a guitar, new or used, a good "m&p"-joint not only lets me actually try it out before I buy, they'll be able to set-up or repair or replace or toss me a loaner if need be. They'll take my personal needs and wants and tastes into consideration, place special orders when possible, etc. etc. etc. Try any of that with an internet-order!

 

Generally the guitars will be well set-up to begin with, to. (Again, at better little shops, not all of 'em.)

 

If I buy an amp from them, new or used, and a tube craps out on me or something else goes wrong, they'll likely take care of me for free, and fast. Right there, as often as possible NOT having to ship things back and forth.

 

If I buy other items from them- pedals, misc. accessories- instead of "off the internet", even if I might have been able to save a small amount, guess what? Loyalty is often recognized, and returned and rewarded!

[miroslav]

Here you go...it took me 30 seconds to get these comparisons...several places, several prices!

 

Fender Twin Reverb

 

And also:

 

GNX 3000

 

Maybe someone ain't looking hard enough!

[fantasticsound]

As has been said already, this ain't price fixing. It's the market.

 

But to expand on this point, consider this;

 

Manufacturers do not offer the same wholesale price to all their dealers. A large chain of stores will get better pricing because they buy in bulk. I'm sure most of you are familiar with buying at a lower price in bulk, right? Anyone ever shop at Sam's Club or Costco?

 

So Guitar Center, Sam Ash, etc. decide how much they want to make on an item and price it. What can the competition do? They can't beat GC's or Ash's price because they're paying more for each item. When you balance that against lower overhead for a small store, the chain still comes out ahead in the end because of the volume they sell. So the little guy has a choice to make. Sell at the chain store price or give the customer a reason it's worth shopping at their store and convince the customer that's true. If the service or lessons or simple convenience, in the case of a shop out in the sticks is worth the extra dollars, the shop stays in business with higher prices.

 

But in the end, we are a price driven society. People regularly educate themselves by speaking with salespeople at X store, then buy items somewhere else for the low price. I've looked customers in the eye and told them I refuse to teach them about a product because they had done just that to me several times. More often than not they thought I was being unreasonable.

 

The good news is we pay less for new gear than ever before. Only on high dollar items do you have to haggle for a significant price drop. You could buy at GC or Ash's price on everything and know you're paying a fair price. If you want a better deal than that, you either work over a salesperson or give them a reason to drop a price, such as buying a whole system rather than one item. A $3,000 street price on a guitar or synth won't move much because they've already dropped the price a lot from MSRP towards cost. But a system of 15 items and accessories will often get you additional discounts because they see you as a habitual buyer. They lose a few dollars now but hope you buy your next purchase from them too.

 

So as Miro demonstrated, there are still a variety of prices available, but they are few and far between. But it ain't price fixing.

 

If I was a betting man I'd put money that "Price Fixing" from "Free Enterprise, USA" is a hit and run spammer looking to mess with people. Time to move on folks. There's nothing to see here.

[PriceFixing]

If any of you read the link I sent it states that an agreement between people on a price does NOT have to occur. Price fixing can be done without explicit agreements and it is still illegal.

 

I do look for sales all the time. Mr. Miroslav take note, look at the links you provided and follow them. There are all either $399.95 or they are $360.00 for an "open box." There are no competitive prices anymore for most items. If you haven't all noticed this is taking place across the music industry now. You used to see different prices, not anymore, they are all locked on the advertised price. This is illegal and it is PRICE FIXING. Read the AntiTrust Law links. If doesn't matter if you think this is okay, any group of sellers targeting a price wheter explicity or not is still illegal for any product.

 

Don't get me wrong guys, I'd prefer to buy from a local M&P retailer. You can try things out, you get better service, usually, and they get to know what you like and what you want personally. Unfortunately, the stores around me are not stocking a GNX3000, don't want to order one, and won't deal. Even the Guitar Center store is not dealing on this unless you bring in a advertised price from someone else.

 

Like I said before, even eBay retailers are now brought in line to the advertised price and are not verying from from it. Do you all want this the be the wave of the future? Do you want to have to pay the same price everywhere in the future unless they are discontinued models? Once the prices are locked like this they can then all raise prices. Guess what people, YOU LOOSE!!! Do something about it now and write to get help now.

 

www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/pfbrprimer.pdf

newcase.atr@usdoj.gov

[zeronyne]

OK, so you think it's price fixing. Many of us recognize that it's market forces. The "price fixing" definitions will be revised in the near future due to the ubiquity of the internet.

 

Do you have anything else to add to the collective knowledge of this forum? Obviously, by your screen name and your location, this is your primary agenda. The longtime posters that have responded to your post have implicitely acknowledged that they understand where you are coming from...they just don't happen to agree.

 

So I ask again, do you have anything else to add to the forum, or, as Neil said, are you just going to move on now? Or worse, are you going to turn this into a trollbait flamewar?

 

By the way, you ARE DELIBERATELY MISREADING THE VERY DOCUMENT YOU HAVE LINKED TO.

 

This is your first paragraph above:

 

"If any of you read the link I sent it states that an agreement between people on a price does NOT have to occur. Price fixing can be done without explicit agreements and it is still illegal."

 

This is ABSOLUTELY NOT WHAT THE DOCUMENT STATES.

 

This, however, is the text that you are supposedly referring to:

 

"It is not necessary for the competitors to charge exactly the same price or that every competitor in the industry join in the conspiracy"

 

That does not say that price fixing "can be done without explicit agreements". In fact, that paragraph goes on to state the conditions that constitute price fixing, and all 7 bullet points start with an AGREEMENT. I invite you to look in a dictionary for the definition of agreement.

 

Get your facts straight, learn how to read, learn how sentence structures work, and take an economics 101 class before you start to slander companies like this.

[miroslav]

Originally posted by PriceFixing:

I do look for sales all the time. Mr. Miroslav take note, look at the links you provided and follow them.

Maybe you just don't look hard enough!

 

Here are a bunch of different prices for the same product:

 

Fender Twin Reverb

 

Fender Twin Reverb

 

Fender Twin Reverb

 

Fender Twin Reverb

 

Fender Twin Reverb

 

Fender Twin Reverb

 

Fender Twin Reverb

 

Fender Twin Reverb

 

I think you're just pissed that you can't find a Fender Twin Reverb that is much less than the $1049 price...

...and maybe you just want someone else to do the leg work for ya!

 

Well...that's what I found looking at only 10 Google pages...there were quite a few more to go...but I will leave that to you Mr. PriceFixing!

 

Granted...the prices are all very close...but unless they are EXCATLY the same price to-the-penny at EVERY retailer...

...you really can't claim price fixing.

 

You might have to accept the fact that some items will have very tight tolerances in the low-to-high price...and as you shop around, you will find that all the retailers are within that low-to-high price range.

 

Now...you may not be pleased at the best price you can find...but, that's just the set market value of that item...and either buy it, or go find something else...

...but don't just blather away here on the forums trying to stir up some conspiracy theory!

 

Do you really expect that the price on a Fender twin should/would vary by a couple of hundred dollars from one retailer to another???!!!

 

That's pretty naive...and just wishful thinking for the average bargain hunter.

But...the minute one retailer gets to a low point that is substantially lower than his competition (and he's still able to make a profit), then others will follow suit...especially if you call them up and tell them about the other guys lowest price!!! DUH!!!

Then a week later when they all have that new, lowest price...you'll be back here again crying about price fixing!

 

Hey...Fender has it's manufacturers price that they charge...and then the rest is up to each retailer.

There is a point that is reached where the retailers can't go much lower...and that's probably the price that you see in all the links I provided...but of course, you can call it price fixing.

 

Hey...take 'em to court if you think you have a legit case...don't just mouth off here on the forums!

[paully]

Originally posted by miroslav:

Oh...and I NEVER...EVER...call a music store to tell them about some other store's lower pricejust to try and get them to beat it!

That's pretty dumb!...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

I agree that 'price fixing', for lack of a better term, is the norm today. But if a dealer strays below a supplier-set bottom line price, they might loose the right to sell that product.. as per supplier defined pricing. Mabee I'm wrong, but that's not price fixing. I look at it as 'price following'. What bothers me today is that huge retail outlets won't give an inch on pricing, even with huge product turnover(and profit) on a given item. They have the ability to dictate terms to manufacturers and suppliers. Of course they don't. That wouldn't benefit the retailer. Catch 22. And mabee they shouldn't. These retail behemoths have made it possible to buy items at remarkably low prices, as compared to the 'mom & pop' stores, which can't afford to haggle.

 

I have two major on-line dealers within driving distance(Sam Ash: 3 b&m stores, and American Musical(Victors House of Music: 1 b&m store). I probably wouldn't do EXACTLY what Miro said, but I'd regularly call the brick and mortar stores and pit these guys against each other.. if they had matching published or over the phone prices. With back and forth calls, they would invariably undercut each other, even with no written offer-to-sell price presented. Sometimes they'd say "no", but 5 minutes later I'd get a call back saying "ya, we can do 5% better", or "we'll beat that price by x dollars".

 

Another hidden cost saving is the shipping(some online sellers like Sweetwater ship most stuff for free), and state taxes that can be avoided by buying from an out-of-state vendor. Today I shop in the stores with the 'perks'; not necessarilly the best price.

 

Paul

[miroslav]

Originally posted by paully:

Today I shop in the stores with the 'perks'; not necessarilly the best price.

Exactly....

 

You have to take into account the item price, the shipping charge (if any), the sales tax (if any)...and the overall experience with that retailer...and your relationship-over-time.

 

If I just purchased on low price, alone...I would be buying all over the place...

...but I tend to stick with a few known outlets...and then which ever one has the best deals at that time...that's where I shop.

 

Also...when I do shop, it's usually for several items at a time...that way I do save on shipping (or Free)...

...so I have to look at all the items I'm going to buy and then consider the total cost/value.

 

Sometimes I find 4 items at one place...and then the other 1 or 2 items I want are a bit higher in price than I can find elsewhere...

...I may still pay the extra few buck for those two items...IF...the overall purchase is going to be good.

 

It's juts not right to only look at the item price and squawk about that alone.

 

I also go to my local music store(and it's a pretty large store...not a small "ma & pa" store)...

...but most often, they are substantially overpriced...and of course, I would have to pay the sales tax.

So I limit my purchases to gotta-have-it-now items...and the les expensive stuff...though every once in awhile, they have a good deal that beats out online deals.

 

Hey Paul...I use to shop at Victors when it was in the old strip mall! Got a lot of my gear from them back in the early 90's.

I would drive down from NJ...do my shopping...then have them ship it to NY, which saved me on the NJ tax!

I've been down to their new store a few times, when I'm that area...but if anything, I just use their AMS online store these days.

I believe that AMS is affiliated with zzoundssince Ive ordered stuff from AMSand accidentally they sent me a zzounds invoice.

Which would explain why the AMS and zzounds prices are sometimes the same.

[paully]

Miro,

 

Here's a quick story that kinda ties everything together; the fixed pricing, and the online vs. brick and mortar store question. About 3 years ago, I was shopping for a Unitor8 to go with Logic. EVERY online price quote, including AMS, was around $580. Finally I called Victor's store and inquired. They had exactly the unit, new and in stock, for $450! "Display unit.. demo"? I asked. They replied, "Nope, still in the unopened box". I snagged it as quickly as I could get there. I guess the 'mom & pops' still have a place in the world. By the way, in Totowa we now have a gigantic Guitar Center that's even closer to me than SA or Victors. I haven't yet mustered the courage to go in there and face the 'sales-dudes'.

 

Paul

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by zeronyne:

...By the way, you ARE DELIBERATELY MISREADING THE VERY DOCUMENT YOU HAVE LINKED TO.

 

This is your first paragraph above:

 

"If any of you read the link I sent it states that an agreement between people on a price does NOT have to occur. Price fixing can be done without explicit agreements and it is still illegal."

 

This is ABSOLUTELY NOT WHAT THE DOCUMENT STATES.

 

This, however, is the text that you are supposedly referring to:

 

"It is not necessary for the competitors to charge exactly the same price or that every competitor in the industry join in the conspiracy"

 

That does not say that price fixing "can be done without explicit agreements". In fact, that paragraph goes on to state the conditions that constitute price fixing, and all 7 bullet points start with an AGREEMENT. I invite you to look in a dictionary for the definition of agreement.

 

Get your facts straight, learn how to read, learn how sentence structures work, and take an economics 101 class before you start to slander companies like this.

Thanks for checking that link out, 'nyne. I had a feeling this was a misread of the statute, as price fixing by definition requires either collusion by competitors or a monopoly by a single seller where choice should be available.

[Warthog]

Hmmm...I sense someone with an agenda:

 

Screenname: "Pricefixing"

Posts: 2

Topics: 1. Pricefixing and 2. Pricefixing

 

Come on, dude. I'll bet that nobody fell for your silly price fixing link because nobody here "knows" you and your first 2 posts are whining about something that doesn't exist. Perhaps you should devote your time to something else. I always shop around and I always get multiple prices. Not sure that you're trying very hard. Do you seriously not have anything else to do?

[fantasticsound]

One other point that has gone unstated up til now.

 

Anyone who has been a music instrument consumer for the past few decades has noticed that prices, as a whole and as a percentage off MSRP have never been lower.

 

Today's consumer is spoiled beyond belief. Manufacturing is more consistant than ever, new methods have reduced tolerances and advances in technology have brought down prices considerably compared to previous decades.

 

At the same time, the proliferation of chain stores, catalog sales and in the past decade, internet sales have further brought prices down from increased competition. Nowadays, no store can ignore that they compete not on a local or regional level, but on a nationwide if not worldwide level.

 

Consumers no longer have to go to one of a few, local outlets to buy quality musical instruments and gear. They have a multitude of sources to get information on any new piece of gear and many old and vintage pieces and buy that gear. No more car-sales-what-do-you-want-to-pay-for-this sales pitches that invariably cost the least knowlegable consumers a lot of extra money. Anyone can walk in or type online and get a fair deal without raking a salesperson over the coals. That's a win for 90% of consumers. To the hard-line hagglers, you can still find wiggle room if you buy more than one item.

 

The gear itself provides many more functions with better sound than was ever available. The one exception is in guitar amplifiers, where old designs and manufacturing keep the prices relatively high. Not artificially high. High because parts are scarce and shortcuts in manufacturing tend to diminish the product. Even so, those amps that have gone high-tech have dropped in price drastically. Where could you buy an amp with decent sounding, built in multi-effects for under $400 only a decade ago? Now you can buy practice amps for $125 that sound a lot like huge stacks, with effects and can run on batteries.

 

The point of all this ranting is that we've never had it so good. From the quality and capability of gear to the ease of which we can buy and know we paid a fair price, today is definitely the golden age of MI retail, for buyers and sellers.

[StinkMonkey]

Been that way for a while. I haven't been able to get to the SA site in a few weeks either. MF has bought out most of the internet sites. I went to look at LP Customs a couple years ago and the American Music Supply store here told me they shipped all the high end stuff to MF, they only had the low end stuff now. Always email whoever you want to deal with and they'l usually give a lower price. No one else will have to match the lower price 'cuz it's not advertised, but you can usually get some sort of dicount on the 'Sale' (Street) price they all stick to.

 

"Get your facts straight, learn how to read, learn how sentence structures work, and take an economics 101 class before you start to slander companies like this."

 

Grow up and quit flaming people. There's plenty of price fixing and deengineering all around you. As far as slandering companies, they don't care, people will still shop there. They just shake their heads and say "You can't please everybody". Hell, the same people who write these grey laws that are almost impossible to prove much less enforce are almost always the politicians themselves or their friends who own the companies that pull this stuff. Ever notice how CEOs get busted but almost never owners, or even the entire board of directors? Except if it's a small company.