A String Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I currently have a PIII 933, 512 Mbs of ram and a slower 4700 rpm 40 gig Hd. When I try to record on the PC with Cakewalk (Multi-track and live DirectX effects), I get a ton of drop outs after four tracks. This means I need to upgrade. With the tax money coming in, I plan on doing it. My question is, who has done this type of recording, with many tracks and live effects, successfully and what type of comp are you running? Do I need to upgrade everything or will a faster HD be enough etc. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steevo Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Originally posted by A String: I currently have a PIII 933, 512 Mbs of ram and a slower 4700 rpm 40 gig Hd. When I try to record on the PC with Cakewalk (Multi-track and live DirectX effects), I get a ton of drop outs after four tracks. This means I need to upgrade. With the tax money coming in, I plan on doing it. My question is, who has done this type of recording, with many tracks and live effects, successfully and what type of comp are you running? Do I need to upgrade everything or will a faster HD be enough etc. Faster HD would be a good thing to do. Then, you might consider moving to a platform like the Digidesign Mbox w/Pro Tools. Moves some of the processing required to the external audio interface. You could probably find one used on ebay for a lot less than upgrading your PC. But, if you have invested a lot of time becoming comfortable with Cakewalk the PC upgrade may be the way to go. I'm just partial to PT because it works great for me on a PIII 800Mz Win98SE w/256Mb PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazed Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 your system is pretty outdated for recording unfortunately. Your HD is not causing the drop outs. It is a combination of the ram and the processor speed. Effects are complete memory hogs. If you are going to do an upgrade get the most you can afford. Sounds cliche but it is so true. With laptops, most sell and buy new rather than upgrade them. So you have to make sure what you buy will be able to keep up with software updates. RAM is key for recording so I would suggest 1GB+. Your processor really needs to be 2.6Ghz+ and most would say 3.0Ghz-3.2Ghz. Have you considered different recording hardware to alleviate some of the processor/ram consumption? Dazed Music Wild SaturDazed Music Mixposure.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trucks Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Ive found its quite important to have a good quality soundcard, as ones made specifically for recording audio generally have seperate processers to take some of the strain off the PC for FX and multi tracking. Soundclick Myspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Brad Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Not that I wouldn't love a new fast computer, but I have a lower capability computer than you. I can record quite well using the stock AC 97 card. Sometimes drop outs indicate too many programs in operating memory at the time you're trying to record. If this is a problem, you can learn to use the msconfig command (go start, run, type msconfig and enter) to restart your computer without any startup programs running that take up extra memory. You can also turn off a lot of them just by turning them off one by one clicking on the little icons on the bottom right of your desktop. You can also disconnect external devices like external harddrives or other usb devices that might periodically interrupt the computer's memory. Other problems like pops and crackles can sometimes be caused by not having the ASIO driver set right (maybe not enough buffer) or the system audio mixer set to record with too much volume. Anyway, if you do some system management and preparation your computer should record as well as mine. Newbie Brad http://www.myspace.com/3pupsmusic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Depends upon the application and version that you use. As computers have gotten faster, the application makers adopt their programs to use that power. With a 933, you could record about 30 or 40 tracks, simply by upgrading the hard drive to a 7200 RPM drive and by having a lot of memory on board... IF you were using an application of the same vintage as the machine. Now, I'm using an older P-4 2.n machine, and it easily handles all that I have thrown at it so far, which has only been about 24 tracks of 24 bit 96k. The real question becomes a matter of needs verses budget verses quality. My converters cost about $3200 in banks of 8, single direction. And believe me, this is NOT an expensive converter, as you can pay upwards of $13,000 for a stereo pair, depending upon the quality that you require. But for my money, the guy on a budget who still demands quality should look towards the RME or Lynx cards. I chose RME. Any PC -can- be made to do the job, but it is easiest to build your own. You can always buy a Dell and beat it into submission, but it is not as good an answer as it used to be. There is a website XPMUSIC or somesuch, which has a list of audio tweeks for computers, and this will help you to get the best performance. What hurts most guys today is that they have so much shit running in the background that the computer has basically no chance to perfrom real time tasks like recording aoudio, because the memory is jammed, the CPU is constantly being polled, and the PCI bus is probably being grabbed all sorts of illegal ways. In fact, that may be your big problem.... check your setup. If you do decide to build a new machine, I suggest that you pick your audio card and application first, and check with the manufacturers before you buy any computer hardware. There are certain cards that inherently cause problems with audio or with paritcular audio parts or apps. Video drivers that hog the PCI bus, making them great for games but shitty for audio, NIC cards that cause problems, PC controller chipsets that cause problems. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 Thanks for all of the input guys. I have already cleared out all, non-essential running programs and services. I think one of my biggest problems right now is the sound card is a "Soundblaster Live! 5.1". I tried running Cubase with it and it can't even record two tracks. I am going to be on a super tight budget (I'm self-employed), so I'm going to try and keep the whole thing under $300. I build computers for other people so I have no problem buying the parts and assembling them. I have quite a few odd pieces laying around here to get me going. I basically just need to upgrade the Ram, CPU, Motherboard and HD (Oh, and possibly the Sound card if I can't get this one to pull it's weight). I was just wondering what others have had success with to give me an idea of which of those areas to put the most money into. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Like anything else, the weakes link in the chain.... Memorey and hard drive speed are important for tracks, cpu cycles are important for effects. If you process the effects back to the tracks, that lessens the load. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreibel Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Originally posted by A String: Thanks for all of the input guys. I have already cleared out all, non-essential running programs and services. I think one of my biggest problems right now is the sound card is a "Soundblaster Live! 5.1". I tried running Cubase with it and it can't even record two tracks. I am going to be on a super tight budget (I'm self-employed), so I'm going to try and keep the whole thing under $300. it's definitely the Soundblaster - note that Creative has never released a proper ASIO driver for this series of card. the best bang-for-the-buck card at the moment is M-Audio's Audiophile 2496, which can be had for under $100 and has proven to be a solid little workhorse. You could probably find this card for even lower on eBay. That and switching to a 7200-speed drive should boost your track count and recording speed nicely. "I used to be "with it", but then they changed what "it" was! Now what I'm with isn't "it", and what is "it" is weird and scary to me. IT'LL HAPPEN TO YOU!" - Grampa Simpson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazed Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 a string - when you are recording are you recording with any added effects on the tracks or are they all clean? I was running a slower pc than that with less ram and could add 10-12 tracks with no effects and be fine. It was not until I added eq, delays, reverb and the ultimate memory hog amplitube. I may have read your post wrong. When I saw your configuration, the hd speed and "live effects" I assumed this was a laptop and you were recording on the go. I went to an MBox and Pro Tools awhile back which has helped dramatically but depending on how many effects I add, I start dropping as well. My recording pc is a 1.6Ghz and 768mb of ram. I have debated switching out my main pc since it has a 3.0Ghz processor but my partner runs an HD setup and he mixes all of our tracks. (fortunately for me lol) I rarely go beyond 8 tracks. Dazed Music Wild SaturDazed Music Mixposure.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motor city rocker Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I might as well forget about ever recording on this PC. I have a pentium II 333 MHz CPU. At least I have a 7200 rpm HD. My budget is real tight and there is no way I will be able to get a new PC either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumblyfingers Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Good idea to have a dedicated audio drive as well at 7200 or faster, on the fastest bus in the computer. Coming from a Mac angle here. Have your recording app on your system drive and the audio drive just for recording the files to. Lot's of RAM is always better. Since you will likely want to get really up to date as you get better at it, I might suggest getting a good computer now and a good I/O box and software, so you don't get frustrated with stuff not being compatible. Check out the M-Audio stuff and MOTU Digital performer. I use Pro Tools and love it. Go on the forums at Digidesign and MOTU and poke around. A ton of info there. If you think you are serious about doing this I would dive in and go for some serious stuff like the bigger names, Logic, Pro Tools Digital Performer etc and get the recommended hardware rather than trying to piecemeal stuff together. My guess would be that your computer is going tp have issues with the latest verisons of Cakewalk etc, you might end up pulling your hair out. Again, if you are serious, drop the bucks and save yourself some headaches. Just my 2c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 Originally posted by motor city rocker: I might as well forget about ever recording on this PC. I have a pentium II 333 MHz CPU. At least I have a 7200 rpm HD. My budget is real tight and there is no way I will be able to get a new PC either. You can record with that set up. My problem is trying to add directX effects to the tracks as I'm recording. It's such a heavy load that I get drop outs. I used to record up to 8 tracks, dry, on my old Pentium I 233. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 Because I want to upgrade to a socket 478 (So I can get a P4), I will need to buy a new MOBO. I think I will be getting a new MOBO, a 4700rpm SATA HD, DDR ram and a new CPU. Then I will upgrade the soundcard when the next chunk of money comes in. Thanks again guys. I appreciate all the help and will be sure to post something once I've recorded with it. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motor city rocker Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 You can record with that set up. My problem is trying to add directX effects to the tracks as I'm recording. It's such a heavy load that I get drop outs. I used to record up to 8 tracks, dry, on my old Pentium I 233. So what if I mix in the effects before the signal goes into the computer like normal playing except the output goes to the computer instead of the amp. Or using a mic and recording the guitar/effects off the amp into the computer? Since the effects are already mixed in there should be no problems...right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 Originally posted by motor city rocker: So what if I mix in the effects before the signal goes into the computer like normal playing except the output goes to the computer instead of the amp. Or using a mic and recording the guitar/effects off the amp into the computer? Since the effects are already mixed in there should be no problems...right? If you use a pedal or effects rack before the signal goes into the computer or add effects after the tracks have been recorded, you should have no problems doing a small number of tracks. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptinesOf Youth Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I dont think a soundcard would make that big of difference. I mean it might, but i wouldnt think it could improve performance. In my eye thats all cpu ram and HD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappy P Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 One other thing. I back of the plug-ins until your ready to do the final mix, or user out board effects. Those plug in really slow things down. I know it's tempting to watch the screen when recording, but don't. Concentrate on the music. Definately disable any graphics while running. That may help with the drop outs. Also, turn off any non-essential programs while recording. Check for anything running in the back ground as well. I using a Pent III with 256 RAM without a problem. www.birdblues.com My Stuff On Sound Click Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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