Kramer Ferrington III. Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I was listening to "Live At The Filmore" today and I've noticed that during the slow bits of "You Don't Love Me Anymore", one can hear a lot of hiss on the guitar and these odd, faint clicking sounds. I am assuming that the hiss is due to some sort of tape echo (?) but the clicking sounds puzzle me. Is it just my copy or does it always do that? And what are the clicks due to? Anybody know? Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 WELL I can tell ya EXACTLY what that was Vince! you are mostly right, the hiss was the Echoplex running the click was where the tape was SPLICED! yes sir! we used to make new loops out of mag tape for them, apparently somebody did a nasty job on that loop, like I used too and there it is!!!! I used to wait untill the crosstalk was so bad I had to make a new one, it got better a bit when I was shown how to make the splice at a angle instead of just blunt across but at high volume it was still there somewhat. http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Originally posted by ellwood: WELL I can tell ya EXACTLY what that was Vince! you are mostly right, the hiss was the Echoplex running the click was where the tape was SPLICED! yes sir! we used to make new loops out of mag tape for them, apparently somebody did a nasty job on that loop, like I used too and there it is!!!! **LMAO!!** Wow! THAT was fast! This forum's fame for fast answers is well deserved! Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 WE AIM TO PLEEEZZEE http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Originally posted by ellwood: it got better a bit when I was shown how to make the splice at a angle instead of just blunt across...Jeez... I'm getting this vague memory of a gizmo for splicing tape. Sort of like a small mitre box. Feels like it happened in somebody else's lifetime Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Ah...the golden days of grease pencils and splicing blocks. I used to work in radio. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Originally posted by Tedster: Ah...the golden days of grease pencils and splicing blocks. I used to work in radio. OH ya then you would really get good and fast at it, man I hated to do that! Then I went to cassette Vox machines and same thing but they seemed to last longer but didn't sound as good. I'm remembering now, on stage if it wasn't ticking between songs, it was BROKE AGAIN!! SO back into the back room where they stored the extra table and chairs and empty beer containers splicing away before the next set!! http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Well, chalk a big one up for Lee-ellwood! That's one of my favorite albums, I'm gonna haveta listen to that tonight (actually, the updated/upgraded The Fillmore Concerts, remixed and remastered and expanded and repackaged by none other than Tom Dowd, who was there running things for the original concert-recording). Oops, waitaminute- I loaned that one out recently... oh, well. I never even thought about there being an Echoplex or similar tape-echo unit on there, I'll have to listen for it! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hypercompression, anyone? I wonder if you can hear that on the original pressings of the LP. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Originally posted by Bill@Welcome Home Studios: "Hypercompression, anyone? I wonder if you can hear that on the original pressings of the LP." Bill Well, is there an Echoplex type effect in use there (like I said, my copy's out on loan)? Or is it some artifact of the live performance or the recording/production process? Or, for that matter, subsequent re-releases in digital formats? Speaking of splices, the Live at the Fillmore album is actually culled from several nights of performances, spliced together within the songs, not just between them. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Originally posted by Caevan_O'Shite: Speaking of splices, the Live at the Fillmore album is actually culled from several nights of performances, spliced together within the songs, not just between them. That is not at all unusual. The extreme of that is the live Steely Dan album. Every channel went to it's own track of DA-88 for every performance on the tour. Then they mixed and matched to create the best complete takes from each of the best performances. As Roger said, (I paraphrase...)"Don't blame me if you recognise the song from the show in your town, but the solo is not the right solo..." Rusted Root recently did the same thing. It is very common. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Oh, my point was just that splices in the master might be the source of the noises Vince cites. Originally posted by Bill@Welcome Home Studios: "As Roger said, (I paraphrase...)"Don't blame me if you recognise the song from the show in your town, but the solo is not the right solo..."" Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin-erator Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Wow, I haven't listened to this one in years. I'm going to have to dig it out. Duane's tone on this record inspired so many attempts at re-creating it. I'm surprised no one has tried to re-create the bad-splice-echo unit. Thanks Vince! Vinny Cervoni vcbluzman@hotmail.com www.bluzberrypi.com www.42ndstband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Oh, I haven't listened to the track, but that 'tick tick tick' sound was characteristic of the three EchoPlexes that I owned. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Originally posted by Bill@Welcome Home Studios: Oh, I haven't listened to the track, but that 'tick tick tick' sound was characteristic of the three EchoPlexes that I owned. Bill OH it sure is!! and the worse the splice the bigger the tick!!! http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Originally posted by ellwood: ....]OH it sure is!! and the worse the splice the bigger the tick!!! Bad splice??? whazzat? Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 OH just watch me sometime and you will soon see what one is!!! gezz that's one of the worst things to do on a gig!! don't miss that at all but I do miss my great big slider on the top! loved to mess with it while playing!! http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejeeber Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Originally posted by Caevan_O'Shite: Oh, my point was just that splices in the master might be the source of the noises Vince cites. I doubt that, as the whoever was splicing the master (Tom Dowd?)would've known to splice at an angle and those splices are done all the time without such blatant clicking Just a pinch between the geek and chum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Geezer Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 DId Dowd do that one also? Lynn G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejeeber Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 If I remember correctly from the documentary about him, he did record that one. Just a pinch between the geek and chum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanner Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 so...still the question remains: were they using echo on the guitar signal "live", or post?? i never thought there was nothin between Duane and amp... s AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar55 Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Vince, it's good to see you've decided to give the Allmans a close listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Originally posted by Bejeeber: I doubt that, as the whoever was splicing the master (Tom Dowd?)would've known to splice at an angle and those splices are done all the time without such blatant clicking No, no... I don't think we're talking about splices on the MASTER, just about splices on the echoplex's tape loop? And why would you splice the echoplex? Well, maybe the tape had broken at diferent times and been fixed in a hurry. The clicking only occurs while the guitar is playing. And because it happens on the slow bits, there are lots of silences, with no clicking. he decay is also very natural and smooth, it doesn't sound gated. Methinks it's something on the guitar itself. V. Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Originally posted by Guitar55: Vince, it's good to see you've decided to give the Allmans a close listen. I normally listen to music when I'm cycling in traffic. I hear most of the sounds, but miss out on subtle things like the clicking. The other day though, I was stuck in an empty waiting room for a couple of hours and noticed a lot of stuff I hadn't heard before. Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.: "The clicking only occurs while the guitar is playing. And because it happens on the slow bits, there are lots of silences, with no clicking."Well, that rules out any Echoplex tape splices then, as you would hear that continuously in a set pattern as the tape-loop cycled around and around. (I wasn't so sure that any Echoplex-type effects were used there, anyways.) Perhaps it's something worn by Duane or Dicky clicking against the guitar; Idunno, I still don't have my copy back to refer to. I'll have to give that a good listen soon. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Originally posted by Caevan_O'Shite: Well, that rules out any Echoplex tape splices then, as you would hear that continuously in a set pattern as the tape-loop cycled around and around. (I wasn't so sure that any Echoplex-type effects were used there, anyways.)Interesting point. I'll have another listen to the track later on. Or maybe they DID gate out the clicking during the silences? Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.: "Or maybe they DID gate out the clicking during the silences?" I'd doubt it; Tom Dowd and the Allman Bro's were all about capturing a performance, a spirit, a vibe, that seems sort of counterintuitive to me, too calculated and planned; if memory serves, I believe that the track in question wasn't planned on ahead of time, as it was played due to a combination of who showed up to guest on-stage that night, and the news that their friend, King Curtis, had just died... "IIRC". Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Originally posted by Caevan_O'Shite: ...if memory serves, I believe that the track in question wasn't planned on ahead of timeI meant "gated during post production". Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Or, for what ever reason he decided to simply switch the plex off using the footswitch to take it out of the amp loop, they don't have to run constantly. http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Going through some stuff, found this, though that you guys might get a kick out of it. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/BillPark/02-15-06_0848.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/BillPark/02-15-06_0849.jpg "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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