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Perfect Pitch Ads


Clapton is God

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OK, This is just a question I'm throwing out there but has anyone ever done this? I see the ads in all the Guitar mags I buy all the time(Guitar Player, Guitar One, etc). Ive seen it for years but never heard of anyone that has done it...

 

Anyone done this or heard of someone doing it? Does it work? or is it just the rip off I think it is...

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k81/exhunter56/d8dc0583.jpg

 

Dick Cheney is organising another hunting trip... who's in?

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Well, embarrassingly enough, a couple years ago I tried it. I do not have perfect pitch and wanted to see if it could actually be learned. I do believe we all get better the more we play on key, but to acquire perfect pitch?

I paid and received a whole pile of cds. I started going through the lessons. One cd after another was full of a sales pitch about the program. No substance at all. I could have discarded the first half of the program. It was all wasted. Then came the "meat and potatoes". Basically, he proposes that you relate the pitches to color. I do hear color, such as darker or lighter, but I do not hear definate color such as bright yellow, etc. Thus, the whole thing was a fantastic waste of time and I would have been better served spending the time plucking notes and intervals on the guitar and just listening to the tones.

When I went to return the program for my "money back guarantee" I was told that they do not refund if you have opened them. WTF? How do you check it out without opening them? Also, you have to go through half of them to get through the sales pitch on their system. Crazy. Long story short, I argued and got my refund about a month later.

They must be selling a ton of em to be able to afford the amount they are spending on ads.

Live and learn. There are no real good shortcuts.

bbach

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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The guy behind that thing s such a frikkin CHEESER. But he's successful pulling people in or his ads wouldn't still be running.

 

The worst was when his brother or someone with this cheesebag s&*@t eating grin was posing for the ads. In keyboard mag he'd be this clean cut guy in a sweater at the keyboard - for the Guitar Player mag ads, he'd be wearing a big 'ol curly long hair wig and posing rock star style with a guitar.

 

Those ads should've been banned for that alone. :P

 

I tried his relative pitch training course and it was full of stuff like "coming up on tape 3, we're going to have a real treat - instead of piano, the notes will be played on a synthesizer"

 

(Oooooohhhh, an actual synthesizer) :freak:

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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Cool thread! I'd always wondered about those ads! :thu::D

 

To progress further... do ANY of those gadgets you see in the back pages of GP actually work?

 

I'm not talking about cases and boutique amps, I'm talking about stuff like the little bits of wood with six "strings" on them so you can practise your picking, the shell shaped earmuffs that help you hear better and so on?

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i'm lucky-when i vocalize the lowest note that i can voice clearly it is an E.

i always used to tune that way until good guitar tuners finally came out and were cheap. :)

i think those ads have been around fer decades, havent they?

s :cool:

AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER
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Originally posted by stanner:

i'm lucky-when i vocalize the lowest note that i can voice clearly it is an E.

i always used to tune that way until good guitar tuners finally came out and were cheap. :)

i think those ads have been around fer decades, havent they?

s :cool:

Yep! I've seen these ads for years but never have I seen anyone of any credibility endorse it.

 

I've read hundreds of interviews on musicians and not one has recommended this.

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Perfect pitch can actually be a curse at times. The thing is IS that voices and instruments are slightly off pitch w/each other all the time due to human error.

One w/ perfect pitch is many more times more sensitive to the error and it drives them nuts.

 

Kinda like the psychics who know something really bad is happening and they can't do anything about it cuz no one else is psychic

 

Mos def a case where ignorance is bliss.

 

I'm happy w/ my derived relative pitch just fine

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"Shortcuts lead to long delays"

 

What are your guys' experiences with perfect pitch, or perfect pitch-like experiences? I have a friend who 90% can tell me the note I'm playing, and can 100% time get within a half step. She can't really explain it, and does not attribute it to "colors." She's one of those piano players who started out really young.

 

I think guitarists are at a slight disadvantage for aquiring perfect pitch, because I believe we tend to think less about specific note names while we're playing them, and tend to read less sheet music and more numbers.

 

There have been days where I experience hearing a note, and it's like that one note is smacking me in the face saying "I'M A B FLAT!!" This usually happens when I'm spending all day recording and working on one song, and it's like the key of that song gets engrained in my head for that day.

 

I am a believer that perfect pitch can be learned, but I have no advice for how to go about doing so... nor do I think it's worth MY time.

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Great thread! So cool also to find my hunch that this was a ripoff confirmed.

 

funny thing...if they hadn't used that cheesy ad layout I would probably have tried it out, but that thing just screamed "con-job" or at least "huckster". Especially (but not just) the picture of the guy.

 

I don't have perfect pitch, and am not really sure how much I need it. I find, just lately (started seriously playing in 1972 thereabouts...) like in the last few years, maybe because I own more guitar, partially that I bought a real tuner...but I am more and more able to get damned close on some of the strings tuning without the tuner. I play that game with myself. Also try to hum a note, see how close. It is not something I do all the time...the thing I think is important, I can hear and hum along with whatever comes into my head relative my key, or note I am currenly hitting.

 

That seems like enough...though in trying to sing harmony, perfect pitch probably would be nice.

====================================================

Check out my original music at

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/jacker

 

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice,

but not in practice."

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Originally posted by Bejeeber:

The guy behind that thing s such a frikkin CHEESER. But he's successful pulling people in or his ads wouldn't still be running.

 

The worst was when his brother or someone with this cheesebag s&*@t eating grin was posing for the ads. In keyboard mag he'd be this clean cut guy in a sweater at the keyboard - for the Guitar Player mag ads, he'd be wearing a big 'ol curly long hair wig and posing rock star style with a guitar.

 

Those ads should've been banned for that alone. :P

 

I tried his relative pitch training course and it was full of stuff like "coming up on tape 3, we're going to have a real treat - instead of piano, the notes will be played on a synthesizer"

 

(Oooooohhhh, an actual synthesizer) :freak:

Our forum buddy Zeronyne had a fiendishly clever avatar having some photoshop phun with that nimrod.
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
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I have a friend with perfect pitch. It is very annoying for him.

 

It is really easy to develop perfect relative pitch. Perfect pitch? What is the point? Don't need it, don't want it.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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I used to play with a very good guitarist who had perfect pitch. Occasionaly, he would reach over and try to tune our instruments while we were playing. I think it drove him as nuts as it did us. I think it is less talent than genetics. I don't think he made a conscious effort to "learn" perfect pitch, and he didn't start playing particularly early.

He not busy being born

Is busy dyin'.

 

...Bob Dylan

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Try a little harder. I use it and hear the colors in it. It does not happen with one listen. I have to admit I have spent many years transcribing and studied ear training in college but I think both the relative and perfect pitch work. If you want definite results just get the relative pitch. You will learn about harmony as well as good ear training.

 

Relative pitch makes it much easier to figure out music and know what will work where when soloing or jamming.

 

It does take work and practice..but well of you are good at the guitar you know how that goes. :)

 

Originally posted by Bbach of Bismarck:

Well, embarrassingly enough, a couple years ago I tried it. I do not have perfect pitch and wanted to see if it could actually be learned. I do believe we all get better the more we play on key, but to acquire perfect pitch?

I paid and received a whole pile of cds. I started going through the lessons. One cd after another was full of a sales pitch about the program. No substance at all. I could have discarded the first half of the program. It was all wasted. Then came the "meat and potatoes". Basically, he proposes that you relate the pitches to color. I do hear color, such as darker or lighter, but I do not hear definate color such as bright yellow, etc. Thus, the whole thing was a fantastic waste of time and I would have been better served spending the time plucking notes and intervals on the guitar and just listening to the tones.

When I went to return the program for my "money back guarantee" I was told that they do not refund if you have opened them. WTF? How do you check it out without opening them? Also, you have to go through half of them to get through the sales pitch on their system. Crazy. Long story short, I argued and got my refund about a month later.

They must be selling a ton of em to be able to afford the amount they are spending on ads.

Live and learn. There are no real good shortcuts.

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Originally posted by Clapton is God:

Thanks for the input guys... figured it was crap!

Was just using it today. It is work and does work. Just depends on whether or not one knows how to study.

 

It is VERY useful if you want to be able to figure songs out on the spot, improvise with more color, transcribe better.. and well..hell there are a ton of uses for it.

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  • 3 weeks later...
PLaying with relative pitch is like being able to respond better to someone else talking to you. You instinctively say "what" if you do not understand words or you just respond with a real reaction when you completely understand. Well this is one way I see hearing music better while you are playing. You can react more. And I don't mean it is always like "hmm... I hear this so I'll do this..", it is sometimes but other times it becomse more of an instinct and natural to just respond with your own taste to other players automatically. But, like language, if you do not understand well you can't respond well.
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"It is VERY useful if you want to be able to figure songs out on the spot, improvise with more color, transcribe better.. and well..hell there are a ton of uses for it. "

 

How is having perfect pitch going to hep any better than perfect relative pitch in doing what you describe? I don't get it.

"PLaying with relative pitch is like being able to respond better to someone else talking to you. You instinctively say "what" if you do not understand words or you just respond with a real reaction when you completely understand. Well this is one way I see hearing music better while you are playing. You can react more. And I don't mean it is always like "hmm... I hear this so I'll do this..", it is sometimes but other times it becomse more of an instinct and natural to just respond with your own taste to other players automatically. But, like language, if you do not understand well you can't respond well. "

 

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are trying to say here at all. I've read this three times, and it's not connecting. Can you say this in some other way, so that I understand your point?

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Let's see.. we'll start with transcribing.

The first qoute you posted is in response to relative pitch, but here are some ways to understand it.

 

Let's assume you know the background chords for a simple solo are something like Amin and Emin which takes about a few seconds to figure out if you hear the obvious sound of minor chords and can tell the bass notes from A to E is a perfect fifth which the most obvious interval next to an octave. If you knew the first bass note was an A because of the color it would take less time since you didn't have to feel around to get the starting pitch of the bass note. If the solo is sticking to notes that are pretty much chords tones or the A or E minor pentatonic it is obvious. So you have already broken it down to 5 notes for every one you hear. As soon as a solo note is not one of those five notes it becomes obvious too. If it is not within the minor scale (A, B, C, D, E, F#, G, A) it is extremely obvious. You may also hear within the solo something like F natural played over the A chord or C# played over the E minor chord. That is the relationship between the solo notes and the chords. Hearing the relative difference, the relative pitch, between some solo notes and those that follow (played by the soloist) makes it even easier to just hear what is obviously going on. It all works together. Recognizing things like arpeggios, chromatic runs or runs of thirds (C, E, D, F#, E, G...) or something become obvious with relative pitch because of where the starting note is compared to chords, and what the following notes are comared to the first of that run played by the soloist.

 

Transcribing.. Since I've written too much already.. I'll try make this more brieft with some examples related to the ninth. hearing the ninth in some things like Zappa, Santana, Almman brothers stands out (don't know why they came to mind right away). Listen to the 2nd song on Hot Rats (can't remember the name right now) A really cool part of that jam is where he spices it up playing around the ninth.. Don't think he knew that.. he most certainly did. It is a color to aim for for a certain sound. Zappa does this often and his writing shows he knows very well what is going on. He does it twice in that solo.... I'll stop going on about other artists but that is an example. SO.. when transcribing it gives you an anchor point and makes surroudning notes obvious as well. Recognizing these things makes it SO much faster

 

 

A good example of noticing relative pitch is the song Jessica by the Allman Brothers which is on right now. It obvious starts with a major triad- A major with C#. When it goes to the second part it goes to minor with a C natural.. major and then changes to minor and then back to major about 5 seconds later.

 

Having good relative pitch helps both improvising with others and playing backgound better when someone else is soloing. Let's say the jam is based on bass riff based on a C maj chord. If the guitarist starts playing something like a G major arpeggio over the C with some more colorful notes, or the the E min pentatonic which almost the same notes, the keyboard can back that up and make the whole song sound the way the soloist was aiming for. Keyboard- guitar.. Or it can go the other way too. The keyboard player may start playing G triad over C and the guitarist could make his or her soloing fit the band better by playing either notes that fit smoothly with that or maybe even purposely play notes that clash more like F#, A, and D (D major triad) depending on what you want. Then the keyboardist might hear that and respond more. It happens all over the place which is what can make a band connect better.

 

Hearing what somone else is playing in their solo while you are playing backgroud, or knowing what someone is doing as the background part while your soloing

 

 

Another thing is memorizing songs. You aren't memorizing chord names and physical positions as much when you start to be reminded by the sound. It is like actors knowing an entire play. Sections of a script remind them of the next part. It is a fact of memorization. The better you can recognize chords and notes like your language the more you can be reminded automatically of the next part or tell if there are mistakes going on too.. and what those mistakes are.

 

Briefly about improvising with more color beyond what I mentioned about relating to a keyboardist playing extensions like G/C.. to put it simply, you know what different notes or chords will sound like before playing them which enables you to put the type of color you want.

 

Trust me... I can't say I am some genius at it.. but I have done it enough to plan always improving these things.

 

It just makes it easier to repond musically like you do to words or visual inspirations to do something.

 

Like I said though.. the first qouted part was about relative pitch.

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"the first qouted part was about relative pitch. "

 

But it is all really about relative pitch, and the ability to hear the differences among notes. None of it shows any specific advantage to actual perfect pitch over relative perfect pitch. I can tell you that in my symphony work, the people who claim to and who do have perfect pitch are a pain in the ass. When the concert master gives you the reference, that IS THE LAW, no matter what you think, no matter who you are.

 

And that brings us to another point... the moving target of what is actually 'perfect' pitch? Perfect pitch referenced to A equalling 440 Hertz? Well, who says? And for how long? Here's the rub... 440 hasn't been the reference for A for that long, and it may not hold as there is already movement to change it... has been for some time.

 

I see imense value in perfect realtive pitch, definitely makes a performer into a better performer. Actual perfect pitch referenced to A=440? I still don't see the point or the value. Don't get me wrong, I'm not unwilling to be convinced. But I've not seen the compeling arugment that makes actual perfect pitch (ref. A=440) a better, or even a desirable, thing.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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You're right about what I wrote.. When I said the "first part" I meant the first part of what was quoted in your post, in the one I was replying too. Not the first part of what I wrote in my last post. A little mix up there. Most of what I have written is about relative.

 

("It is VERY useful if you want to be able to figure songs out on the spot, improvise with more color, transcribe better.. and well..hell there are a ton of uses for it."- what I wrote a few posts ago)

 

One thing that is pointed out is that perefect pitch and relative pitch are two different things the same person can have. Perfect being hearing color and relative being an understanding and recognition from that point on, working from a base point

 

For the most part.. I feel that the advantage to hearing the color of certain notes is more of a fast reference to using relative pitch. There are some notes I can recognize quickly which makes the following notes or chords obvious due to what they are to the first which didn't have to be checked. Those are mostly due to earlier transcriptions I did which were repeated and played over and over again. The E is my easiest and then F# and ironically G. Or is it ironic? (I really never thought of that before) Since I can use these as a reference I find it useful. They work off of each other.

 

Another use of knowing the color is having an approximate idea of where the notes sound like while looking at the music. which of course is meaningless for those that don't read or write sheet music at all. And of course, relative is much more important than that when it comes to arranging harmony.

 

 

In the long run I say relative is much more important and useful. Especially since I feel perfect is mainly useful when combined with relative pitch.

 

When it comes to whether or not ether can be learned I have to say I feel it just takes time, practice and determination and an actual desire like music does in general.

 

about the 440 reference. I don't believe feeling A=440 is the reference to perfect pitch. Perfect Pitch is recognizing 440 or recognizing THAT something may be a little faster or slower. Harmony and playing together is what is important. As it is pointed out on the CDs a few times and something I agree with, those that complain are simply showing off that they hear a difference. Like you said, it hasn't even always been 440 and I am sure those with what is now referred to as Perfect Pitch did not run and hide from music when things were different.

 

Those two definitely overlap here and there. I feel they work well together but definitely would recommend relative way before caring about being able to hear specific notes.

 

To me it is desirable to not have as much of a need to feel around where to start. If I hear E min my hands just go right to that.. but if I hear Abmin... I do have to feel around more.

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It's a waste of time and money to try to learn perfect pitch as a guitar player / vocalist. You don't need to be able to vocally attain a perfect E note for example without any instrumentation cues or accompanyment.

 

What we need is to learn to sing the correct relative pitch (i.e. to sing and hit the correct notes within the correct key you're playing in. The instrument (i.e. guitar, piano,) provides you the key and you just need to train your voice to sing the right notes within the key. This just comes with practice and what people are taught with vocal lessons, singing in choirs, etc.

 

This Perfect Pitch thing is a scam and an answer to a problem that doesn't exist.

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The perfect pitch...when you toss a banjo 20 feet and it doesn't hit the side of the dumpster.
Label on the reverb, inside 1973 Ampeg G-212: "Folded Line Reverberation Unit" Manufactured by beautiful girls in Milton WIS. under controlled atmosphere conditions.
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